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2018 Vikings Off-Season Thread

Vanimal46

By Vanimal46
in Minnesota Vikings Talk

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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BPA is not some exact science....weird how OL seem to get drafted in round 1 and 2 by other teams, like, maybe, I don't know, they value OL play.....they must all be wrong though.

 

Well the first round linemen went to the Colts, 49ers, Raiders, Lions, Bengals and Patriots.

 

It's hard to argue that at minimum four of those teams historically tend to be terrible at drafting. Why reach for an OL? No one still available at 30 seemed like they had separation from lineman that will be available at 62 or beyond.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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Have you actually looked at the data on that? You commonly have this complaint but it feels unfounded. Plenty of good teams have built their lines without first rounders, including the Patriots.

 

Yeah, the Patriots, Packers, Steelers and Saints rarely have better than average lines. O Lines look good when the QB gets rid of the ball quick and/or bootlegs away from pressure.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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The line did fine with Keenum last year and it's no worse than what Cousins had last year in Washington. I think typically good QBs make linemen look good, not the other way around. 

 

I wasn't looking for a CB because they take too long to develop in Zimmer's system, but I wouldn't pretend to know which one's are better than the others for this specific defense. It seems to be that ballhawk types aren't a fit for this scheme, the corners don't seem to be allowed to jump routes except rarely on 5 yard outs when there's safety help.

 

actually, the line gave up hits on 45% of dropbacks....that's quite bad.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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That said, If they do go line, I think Crosby from Oregon is a great zone-scheme fit.

 

I think I like Jamarco Jones. He sounds like a pretty good pass protector and I think the offense will need to get away from the run if they don't want the RBs to regularly be getting flagged for the new rule against initiating contact with their helmet.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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Belichek has drafted two OL in the first round in his time in New England. Two.

Wynn is only the third. Mankind was over a decade ago.

 

Look, spielman doesn't take OL in rounds 1-3....they literally have one decent OL on the team that he's drafted right now. That's....not good. This is not about round 1, nor is it about one year......

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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Look, spielman doesn't take OL in rounds 1-3....they literally have one decent OL on the team that he's drafted right now. That's....not good. This is not about round 1, nor is it about one year......

You insinuate they don’t value line play, yet the team has spent a ton of money there. So That seems demonstrably false.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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You insinuate they don’t value line play, yet the team has spent a ton of money there. So That seems demonstrably false.

 

No, I state clearly they dont' draft OL early enough. I never once said they don't value it. Not one time did I say that, or imply it. I said the OL isn't good because they don't draft OL early. LIterally.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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Look, spielman doesn't take OL in rounds 1-3....they literally have one decent OL on the team that he's drafted right now. That's....not good. This is not about round 1, nor is it about one year......

 

If Spielman can't draft decent OL, why should they keep drafting them?

 

But they drafted Elflein in the 3rd just last year. I think we need to wait until after tonight to declare that Speilman never drafts lineman in the first 3 rounds.

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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No, I state clearly they dont' draft OL early enough. I never once said they don't value it. Not one time did I say that, or imply it. I said the OL isn't good because they don't draft OL early. LIterally.

Post 147 absolutely does imply that Mike.

 

Isn't it okay for the team to feel that some positions are best left for other rounds in the draft? Teams prioritize that way all the time.

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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that's three times as many as Spielman, right?

In twice as much time yes. So not all that different. Packers have made a living off of drafting guards in the third and fourth rounds.

 

I value line play as much as any football fan out there. But the way college coaches are coaching lineman means that many of them are simply not ready for the NFL. And if that's the case and you have a project on your hand either way, why not wait till later to draft your projects?

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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In twice as much time yes. So not all that different. Packers have made a living off of drafting guards in the third and fourth rounds.

I value line play as much as any football fan out there. But the way college coaches are coaching lineman means that many of them are simply not ready for the NFL. And if that's the case and you have a project on your hand either way, why not wait till later to draft your projects?

 

How has that strategy worked out for the vikings? 

 

Maybe Zimmer isn't a DB whisperer, maybe he's really good at convincing his GM to take DBs early, over and over. Maybe that's why they have some good DBs?

 

In any event, I've made my points, and am ready to move on.

 

I predict DE/T hybrid, OL, or trade back in round 2.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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There were only two maybe three O lineman in the draft who were actual legit round 1 talents and the Vikings would have had to jump up to #15 to get one. It took the Saints next year's 1st round pick to get to jump from #27 to #14.

 

I read this every year, that the board just didn't fall that way. Eventually, it's a trend, like, over a decade.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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I know! That's why the Eagles won, they found good/great OL, and other teams didn't. It's like having a catcher that can hit in baseball, it gives your team a huge advantage over others.

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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I know! That's why the Eagles won, they found good/great OL, and other teams didn't. It's like having a catcher that can hit in baseball, it gives your team a huge advantage over others.

Right, but they found their offensive lineman in a multitude of ways. Not just with high picks

 

I'm with you on the corner back Whisperer criticism. You can call yourself a Whisperer if you are turning third-round cornerbacks into all Pros. But needing first-round Talent implies it's more about the talent than your ability to whisper.

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nicksaviking All-Star

nicksaviking

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I read this every year, that the board just didn't fall that way. Eventually, it's a trend, like, over a decade.

 

You mean because other teams reach for O lineman so they weren't available for the Vikings who drafted later? I'd bet if we go back and look at which teams reached for O lineman, they tend not to be good teams.

 

Either way, after Miller went, the rest of the 1st round OL were guards and centers, and Will Hernandez who people seem to think the Vikings should have taken is a guard. I don't want interior lineman, I want a RT so they can kick Remmers inside, and I want a pass blocking RT because I think the league is going to move away from running the ball. Most of the top tackels currently on the board whom the Vikings may have drafted in round 1 are better graded as run blockers. The better pass blockers seem to be lower on the lists. 

 

I'd like Jamarco Jones, Geron Christian or Joseph Noteboom. Will Richardson might work too; maybe Levi's guy Tyrell Crosby. Some or all of these guys will be there for their 2nd pick and it wouldn't be surprising if one or more is there for their 3rd.

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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I did some digging into the offensive line of the Eagles. They have a 6th round pick at Center a fifth-round pick at tackle two low end free-agent signings and one top 5 pick.

 

Just for the record. (Edit: one of the free agents was not low end, Brooke sign for 8 million)

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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I did some digging into the offensive line of the Eagles. They have a 6th round pick at Center a fifth-round pick at tackle two low end free-agent signings and one top 5 pick.

Just for the record.

 

The difference is, they seem to make it work. The vikings, I think, have shown they can't develop raw OL at all, they've certaily tried. If he's a defensive genius, use draft capital on offense, and let the genius do his work....

 

but really, I want to move on!

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