Article: Photographer Accuses Miguel Sano Of Assault

[one_eyed_jack]

 

Moderator's Note: The discussion in these Sano threads has been basically constructive, but please don't bring in straw men arguments that create an extreme point of view to argue against, one which no one is actually proposing. Constructions like the one above lead nowhere. Not just the post I'm mentioning here, but in several other posts I've seen, and it leads to pointless digressions. Thanks.

 

Duly noted.  I misinterpreted an earlier post and perhaps overreacted a bit  My apologies, I will be more deliberative before responding from here on.  

[adorduan]

Look, here's the deal as I see it.  The world isn't fair.  This #metoo movement won't accomplish anything without difficult actions being done by victims. This means reporting crimes to the authorities/police WHEN THEY HAPPEN. There is evidence that needs to be preserved. They need to press charges.They need to follow through.  Will it suck for them? Probably, but real change is NEVER easy.  Hard sacrifices will have to be made. But you can't wait for years and then throw out accusations and not expect people to have legitimate questions about what happened. Apparently she has changed her avatar to BE BOLD.  Being bold would have been having the guts to go to the police when this happened and pressing charges.

  One last comment. To those on this site who claim to know her very well and absolutely believe what she claimed happened and apparently knew this for months.  How would you feel if because of your inaction, this, or worse, happened to someone else?  You had a moral obligation to whatever can to do what is right, damn the consequences.

[Twins33]

  One last comment. To those on this site who claim to know her very well and absolutely believe what she claimed happened and apparently knew this for months.  How would you feel if because of your inaction, this, or worse, happened to someone else?  You had a moral obligation to whatever can to do what is right, damn the consequences.

If it has happened again, the blame is on perpetrator. Nick, or anyone else, did not make the perpetrator do this or anything in the future. They do not control another persons arms, mouth or mind.

 

I guess for me, I'll never understand why it's easier to blame the victim or anyone they may have confided in rather than to blame the perpetrator who did this future hypothetical act.

[adorduan]

 

If it has happened again, the blame is on perpetrator. Nick, or anyone else, did not make the perpetrator do this or anything in the future. They do not control another persons arms, mouth or mind.

I guess for me, I'll never understand why it's easier to blame the victim or anyone they may have confided in rather than to blame the perpetrator who did this future hypothetical act.

you completely missed the point.

[Wookiee of the Year]

 

Look, here's the deal as I see it.  The world isn't fair.  This #metoo movement won't accomplish anything without difficult actions being done by victims. This means reporting crimes to the authorities/police WHEN THEY HAPPEN. There is evidence that needs to be preserved. They need to press charges.They need to follow through.  Will it suck for them? Probably, but real change is NEVER easy.  Hard sacrifices will have to be made. But you can't wait for years and then throw out accusations and not expect people to have legitimate questions about what happened. Apparently she has changed her avatar to BE BOLD.  Being bold would have been having the guts to go to the police when this happened and pressing charges.

  One last comment. To those on this site who claim to know her very well and absolutely believe what she claimed happened and apparently knew this for months.  How would you feel if because of your inaction, this, or worse, happened to someone else?  You had a moral obligation to whatever can to do what is right, damn the consequences.

Adorduan, I understand your point. It is certainly more effective for victims to accomplish change if they immediately report their crimes.

 

However, can you see how your remarks could be construed as victim-blaming?

 

No one wishes this upon themselves. No one plans for sexual assault to happen to them. When it does, they are confused and ashamed. In 2015, Ms. Bissen would certainly never have thought, "Yes! I now have a chance to accomplish something via the #metoo movement!" (In no small part because there was no #metoo movement and the cultural moment was quite different.)

 

The point is, victims are wrestling with all sorts of emotions, including hoping they can just forget about what happened. When they can't--when it continues to haunt them--their willingness to become an advocate might change over time.

 

I agree with you that this isn't the "best way" or the "best time" for Ms. Bissen to have shared her story. But our culture is hardwired to suppress these stories, to doubt the veracity of victims' claims, and to confront the victims with questions like, "Are you sure it happened exactly that way? Are you sure this is the best way for you to seek justice? Are you sure this is the best time for you to come forward with your story?" All of these factors make it even harder for victims to immediately react by seeking legal recourse.

 

Part of recognizing the awful problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault and standing in solidarity with the victims is acknowledging their stories and their willingness to share those stories (including the timing of sharing them) doesn't always fall into our prescribed boxes of how and when to do so--and yet telling victims that we support them and will stand with them, anyway, because they didn't ask to have to make the hard decisions of what to go public with and when. They didn't ask for these crimes to be committed against them. They are victims, pure and simple.

 

To think people who heard her story in advance didn't struggle with how and whether to share her story--and to what degree to push her to share her story--is unfair. The world is muddy, and a hard place to live, and I don't doubt people wrestled with these questions, but ultimately decided to leave the matter in Ms. Bissen's hands, as it's her story. We don't know what they privately encouraged her to do, but we do know they ultimately decided it was her story to share how she wanted, when she was ready. I don't see anything negligent in that decision.

[Twins33]

you completely missed the point.

I don't believe I did. You said that anyone who knew has a moral obligation to report so it doesn't happen to anyone else. My point is they do not have to do anything. If it happens again, it's the perpetrator's fault. Not anyone else's. It is completely unfair to force that kind of weight and guilt onto another person. Sure, they may feel it themselves along with any other feelings but they certainly do not have to say a word. There is no such obligation.

 

None of this is meant to be a personal attack on you, I want that to be clear, but as the poster above me said it comes off as victim blaming (or blaming others vs blaming the perp). I would think, and hope, that's not your intention but that's how a lot of posts read.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Twins33

[adorduan]

 

I don't believe I did. You said that anyone who knew has a moral obligation to report so it doesn't happen to anyone else. My point is they do not have to do anything. If it happens again, it's the perpetrator's fault. Not anyone else's. It is completely unfair to force that kind of weight and guilt onto another person. Sure, they may feel it themselves along with any other feelings but they certainly do not have to say a word. There is no such obligation.

None of this is meant to be a personal attack on you, I want that to be clear, but as the poster above me said it comes off as victim blaming (or blaming others vs blaming the perp). I would think, and hope, that's not your intention but that's how a lot of posts read.

Of course if the perpetrator is committing a crime its his fault, i'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that if you know a serious crime is being/has been committed, you have an obligation to do something, and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs. So, for example,if you have evidence that you believe to be true that your neighbor is killing people, you don't think you have any moral obligation to report it to authorities?

[Mr. Brooks]

Look, here's the deal as I see it. The world isn't fair. This #metoo movement won't accomplish anything without difficult actions being done by victims. This means reporting crimes to the authorities/police WHEN THEY HAPPEN. There is evidence that needs to be preserved. They need to press charges.They need to follow through. Will it suck for them? Probably, but real change is NEVER easy. Hard sacrifices will have to be made. But you can't wait for years and then throw out accusations and not expect people to have legitimate questions about what happened. Apparently she has changed her avatar to BE BOLD. Being bold would have been having the guts to go to the police when this happened and pressing charges.

One last comment. To those on this site who claim to know her very well and absolutely believe what she claimed happened and apparently knew this for months. How would you feel if because of your inaction, this, or worse, happened to someone else? You had a moral obligation to whatever can to do what is right, damn the consequences.

How would Nick reporting what he was told be able to prevent any future incidents? Do you really think they would have locked Sano away without bail?

[PseudoSABR]

The criminal justice system is NOT the answer to the problem of systemic sexual assault/misconduct.  Most sexual assaults--esp. without penetration--leave little hard evidence, beyond the testimony of a shaken victim.   The high burden of proof necessary to prove guilt is very hard to overcome based only on the testimony of traumatized victim. 

 

What the answer often is is to shut-up and listen to victims, and to acknowledge one's own role either in saying nothing or in laying the groundwork where the credibility of the victim is the focus rather then the actions of the perpetrator.   

[Mr. Brooks]

Of course if the perpetrator is committing a crime its his fault, i'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that if you know a serious crime is being/has been committed, you have an obligation to do something, and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs. So, for example,if you have evidence that you believe to be true that your neighbor is killing people, you don't think you have any moral obligation to report it to authorities?

That's different. In that case, the murderer would be in jail until trial. You would have prevented future crimes.

That's not the case here. Reporting what you've been told here would have zero effect on preventing a future crime.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Of course if the perpetrator is committing a crime its his fault, i'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that if you know a serious crime is being/has been committed, you have an obligation to do something, and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs. So, for example,if you have evidence that you believe to be true that your neighbor is killing people, you don't think you have any moral obligation to report it to authorities?

To reverse your absurd analogy.  What if your neighbor is smoking pot, or even dealing it? Do you still have moral duty to report?  (This isn't meant to be fair question, but nor is your murder example, which is sensational, and intended to force the answer you seek).

 

Investigations and trials themselves are not innocent processes that have costs, especially to those traumatized.  You can't lay claim to any moral high ground and not acknowledge those costs to the very people we're supposedly trying to protect.

Edited December 30, 2017 by PseudoSABR

[Twins33]

Of course if the perpetrator is committing a crime its his fault, i'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that if you know a serious crime is being/has been committed, you have an obligation to do something, and not just sit there twiddling your thumbs. So, for example,if you have evidence that you believe to be true that your neighbor is killing people, you don't think you have any moral obligation to report it to authorities?

i would put murder under a different category. Neither is a good thing, obviously. Murder is definitely something that people will more than likely speak up about. Whether they are "obligated" is hard to say. Me personally, if murder is involved I'd speak up.

 

I don't think, in an assault case, the victim or anyone else who knew (not talking witnesses, but friends) are obligated to say anything. The choice is up to the victim in that case. This type of thing has happened a lot in the last few months, victims confiding in people and those people keeping it to themselves because that's what the victim wants. There should be nothing wrong in doing that. They are protecting and supporting someone they know/love/care about.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Twins33

[adorduan]

 

Adorduan, I understand your point. It is certainly more effective for victims to accomplish change if they immediately report their crimes.

 

However, can you see how your remarks could be construed as victim-blaming?

 

No one wishes this upon themselves. No one plans for sexual assault to happen to them. When it does, they are confused and ashamed. In 2015, Ms. Bissen would certainly never have thought, "Yes! I now have a chance to accomplish something via the #metoo movement!" (In no small part because there was no #metoo movement and the cultural moment was quite different.)

 

The point is, victims are wrestling with all sorts of emotions, including hoping they can just forget about what happened. When they can't--when it continues to haunt them--their willingness to become an advocate might change over time.

 

I agree with you that this isn't the "best way" or the "best time" for Ms. Bissen to have shared her story. But our culture is hardwired to suppress these stories, to doubt the veracity of victims' claims, and to confront the victims with questions like, "Are you sure it happened exactly that way? Are you sure this is the best way for you to seek justice? Are you sure this is the best time for you to come forward with your story?" All of these factors make it even harder for victims to immediately react by seeking legal recourse.

 

Part of recognizing the awful problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault and standing in solidarity with the victims is acknowledging their stories and their willingness to share those stories (including the timing of sharing them) doesn't always fall into our prescribed boxes of how and when to do so--and yet telling victims that we support them and will stand with them, anyway, because they didn't ask to have to make the hard decisions of what to go public with and when. They didn't ask for these crimes to be committed against them. They are victims, pure and simple.

 

To think people who heard her story in advance didn't struggle with how and whether to share her story--and to what degree to push her to share her story--is unfair. The world is muddy, and a hard place to live, and I don't doubt people wrestled with these questions, but ultimately decided to leave the matter in Ms. Bissen's hands, as it's her story. We don't know what they privately encouraged her to do, but we do know they ultimately decided it was her story to share how she wanted, when she was ready. I don't see anything negligent in that decision.

I'm just telling you that the best way to be credible with accusations is to report them immediately, there simply isn't any other way.  Did it help her to keep this to herself for 2 years? Obviously not. she kept it inside until she couldn't take it anymore. This firestorm of sexual assault stories coming out now need to be a learning point of what to do for future victims and what they need to do, no matter how hard.. That's all I'm saying.

[adorduan]

 

How would Nick reporting what he was told be able to prevent any future incidents? Do you really think they would have locked Sano away without bail?

Of course not, but ignoring a problem never makes it go away.  What would be hurt by him going to the authorities and reporting the crime? She would be mad at him and never speak to him again? big friggin deal. A serious crime was committed and you seem content to do nothing. not me.  We are close to our neighbors, who are a retired couple.  A couple of years ago some people moved in 3 houses down and across the street from us.  Our neighbors started seeing all kinds of cars pulling up behind that house and people running out to the cars in the middle of the night.  Drug deals. When our neighbor told us this I called the cops and reported what was going on, i didn't sit on my damn hands.

[adorduan]

 

To reverse your absurd analogy.  What if your neighbor is smoking pot, or even dealing it? Do you still have moral duty to report?  (This isn't meant to be fair question, but nor is your murder example, which is sensational, and intended to force the answer you seek).

 

Investigations and trials themselves are not innocent processes that have costs, especially to those traumatized.  You can't lay claim to any moral high ground and not acknowledge those costs to the very people we're supposedly trying to protect.

Read my post i just made to MR Brooks.  You and I are very different people with a very different value set.  time to agree to disagree.

[adorduan]

 

i would put murder under a different category. Neither is a good thing, obviously. Murder is definitely something that people will more than likely speak up about. Whether they are "obligated" is hard to say. Me personally, if murder is involved I'd speak up.

I don't think, in an assault case, the victim or anyone else who knew (not talking witnesses, but friends) are obligated to say anything. The choice is up to the victim in that case. This type of thing has happened a lot in the last few months, victims confiding in people and those people keeping it to themselves because that's what the victim wants. There should be nothing wrong in doing that. They are protecting and supporting someone they know/love/care about.

thanks for the civil discussion. Are they really supporting/protecting them though, that's my point.  The event occurred and will be with the victim forever.  Just ignoring doesn't make it go way.  Why do you think therapy works as well as it does?

[mlhouse]

 

1. 6% is not a lot. It's just a bit more than one out of twenty. No one thinks one out of twenty is a lot of anything. Add in all the unreported assaults we're up to, what, about 1 out of 80 assaults are falsely accused? That's an insanely low number.

 

2. See, the problem here is that these things should be considered sexual assault. Just because young men have gotten away with stupid things in the past (myself included) doesn't justify continued bad behavior.

 

 

1.   You simply do not know what you are talking about because 6% is an astronomical number for false reports of a crime. For other crimes it would be substantially lower.  This is a significant problem because it cast doubt in these situations.  

 

2.  No, I disagree.  Bad manners is not a sexual "assault".  Someone yelling "show me your XXXXXX" is not a sexual assault and never should be.  It is terrible manners.  But not sexual assault.  I think we will make a huge mistake opening the flood gates in loosening up what we consider to be sex crimes.  

 

 

 

[mlhouse]

 

See I think this is part of the problem. I've seen for months now other men saying: "man, I can't even talk to a woman now without it being sexual harassment." "Better not ask her for her number or if she wants to have a drink...it's now sexual harassment."

Where is this coming from?! What women are saying asking a person out once is sexual harassment? I've seen zero instances of this happening. If a man is questioning if he can even talk to a woman anymore then to me that's way more telling. Either you're creepy or you're not. And you should certainly know the difference. If someone has to question how they interact with other people than they are likely not acting appropriately and some part of them knows it. What someone may think of as idiotic is considered scary to a woman.

Why do we think it's romantic when we hear stories of a guy repeatedly asking a woman to go out for years? She's saying no for a reason. And then the men are proud when the woman finally give in and says yes. They likely gave in because they were tired of being constantly harassed. Why are men not stopping? This is not cute.

Why do we teach girls they need to cover up because it gives boys bad thoughts? As a guy, I've never been told to cover up because girls will have bad thoughts. Why does this double standard exist?

Why are women afraid to walk alone at night? Why are they taught that they should have their keys out and ready to get in their car quickly if they need to? Why are they also taught that they should put one of those keys between two of their fingers to protect themselves if necessary? I've never had to do or worry about any of this as a man. I could be attacked too, but it's not a fear that's constantly in the back of my mind.

Why do young boys who sleep with a teacher get a high five? Why is it not the same for girls? Both times are equally wrong.

Why are women considered sluts and men considered studs when they've been with a lot of people?

Why do men think it's okay to compliment a woman's body or what she's wearing, especially in the workplace? If a straight man wouldn't say it to a male coworker then why are they saying it to the female coworker? She's not there to be sexualized. She's there to work. And if a man would say it to both, again, that's still being creepy and harassing the person if you do it repeatedly.

Why do father's/brothers "jokingly" say that their daughter/sister needs to be locked in a closet/bedroom for thirty years in order to keep them away from boys/men. Or say "they've got guns" as a threat to the boy, serious or not. Never heard a man say this about his son/brother. This is something I've even said. I do not have a sister or kids (nor do I want any).

We know why.

 

A lot of it is alcohol and/or drug related.  People lose their inhibitions and say things they would not normally say. Even in a sober enviroment young men want to pursue young women but really do not know how.  It is a real fine line and we should be careful not to cross it.

[tobi0040]

Culture shock is the only thing that can describe my state of mind.

 

Donald Trump had more than 10 women accuse him of sexual harassment of some sort. Unwanted sexual advances where he was told no and didn't listen. Those women were all called liars. Then he was on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women, and 3 weeks later 62 million people voted for him.

 

Roy Moore, more than 10 women. Some minors at the time. They are called liars. Almost wins a senate seat.

 

I am 34, so I am not sure how widespread and known the accusations against Bill Clinton were. But again more than 10 women. He and his wife discredited and shamed the women and he wins an election and gets re-elected.

 

I fully understand why women hesitate. It keeps getting re-enforced that many people don't care and some will not believe them even if they don't know either party.

 

As a father of an 8 and 9 year old, it makes me sick.

[Twins33]

thanks for the civil discussion. Are they really supporting/protecting them though, that's my point.  The event occurred and will be with the victim forever.  Just ignoring doesn't make it go way.  Why do you think therapy works as well as it does?

same to you. I don't consider it "ignoring it" and maybe that's where we differ. If someone comes to me and confided in me an assault that happened to them, it is not my place to go run to the police or anyone else if they do not want me to. And it's not a case where I'm worried about losing that friendship. That's not the reason why I wouldn't say anything.

 

If I only had the courage to tell certain people and I tell them not to do or say anything about it then my expectation is that. And they shall get the same thing from me when the situation is reversed. If someone went and told my story I would be mad and would wish I would have never told that person and some trust would certainly be lost, good intentions or not.

 

And again, for me, it's not about caring or worrying about losing the friendship. It takes courage to tell even one person. And I don't personally feel it's my right, or even my obligation, as you put it, to go to anyone with that story if I'm told to not do it. It's a respect thing in my eyes. That may sound stupid but that's how I see it.

 

Whether a person goes to the police or not, it never goes away, as you said. Even if a person is convicted and spends time in jail, the victim still has to deal with the pain for the rest of their lives whether the person was punished or not. If I'm someone they have confided in, I don't want to add more pain to an already painful situation. That's why I don't believe a friend or family member is obligated to speak up.

[Twins33]

A lot of it is alcohol and/or drug related.  People lose their inhibitions and say things they would not normally say. Even in a sober enviroment young men want to pursue young women but really do not know how.  It is a real fine line and we should be careful not to cross it.

Right. It is a fine line, but I hope no one thinks drugs or alcohol excuses the bad behavior. If someone can't control themselves when under the influence, that is still a choice they made to partake in the drugs/alcohol. That and "boys will be boys" needs to be launched into the sun.

 

We all have to be better and we have to hold others to that same standard (like don't let our friend keep obviously harassing a girl who has no interest).

 

Just FYI, was not saying you were making excuses. Just pointing out that it can be used as one and it should not be.

[Sam Morley]

 

 

 

 

2.  No, I disagree.  Bad manners is not a sexual "assault".  Someone yelling "show me your XXXXXX" is not a sexual assault and never should be.  It is terrible manners.  But not sexual assault.  I think we will make a huge mistake opening the flood gates in loosening up what we consider to be sex crimes.  

 

Someone yelling "show me your XXXXXX" is sexual harassment.

[Wookiee of the Year]

 

1.   You simply do not know what you are talking about because 6% is an astronomical number for false reports of a crime. For other crimes it would be substantially lower.  This is a significant problem because it cast doubt in these situations. 

 

Actually, according to FBI data and as reported by Stanford, "Only about 2% of all rape and related sex charges are determined to be false, the same percentage as for other felonies (FBI)... Put another way, we are much more likely to disbelieve a woman if she says she was raped than if she says she was robbed, but for no good reason."

 

The data suggests the rate of false reports of sexual assault is the same as the rate of false reports for other crimes. Nothing astronomical about it.

[biggentleben]

 

1.   You simply do not know what you are talking about because 6% is an astronomical number for false reports of a crime. For other crimes it would be substantially lower.  This is a significant problem because it cast doubt in these situations.  

 

I also know from my work with the mentally ill that someone with borderline personality disorder is nearly 90% to report a rape or attempted rape within their lifetime. (Last numbers I saw before I left the field were in the upper 80s, but had risen 2-3% over the past 5 years or so, and that was 2 years ago)

 

The town I live in has a high percentage of SPMI adults (severe and persistent mental illness - basically, the biggies, schizophrenia, bipolar, verifiable personality disorders), and in working at the jail part-time I was not surprised to find that there was nearly a 20% false report number. I worked with someone who made 11 reports of sexual assault or rape within one year. One had any merit. So right there are 10 claims that get added to the general number, but sans her mental illness, she most likely doesn't report a thing falsely, or at least nowhere near that frequently, and that can significantly skew the number, whatever the true number may be.

 

Let's not utilize a number already skewed by those who do not have the capacity to understand their role in affecting the other persons who come forward to further victimize those who are brave enough to come forward in the first place.

[ThejacKmp]

6% is a lot of false accusations.   The other point I am making is that many of this waves' allegations are not sexual assaults:  they are just a (often young) man's attempt to ask a woman for sex in a very idiotic manner, maybe even aggressive manner.  Given today's coverage of "sexual assault" I think we need to be very wary of these types of issues.

 

94% is a lot of guilty people. The fact you are focused on the 6% part is troubling.

[jmlease1]

I'm staggered that anyone would attack Nick Nelson for not reporting this assault accusation to legal authorities. That's not his responsibility and absent the consent of the accuser, he has nothing substantive to add to the conversation. The fact that this would come up is further evidence how much further we have to go in dealing with sexual harassment, sexual assault, and related issues in our society.

 

At my job we have mandatory training that we are required to renew every year. It's comprehensive and actually quite informative for people who take it seriously. (The interactive web-based system used does a respectable job in making people people engage on the topic as well) One of the topics covered is the concept of mandatory reporting, so that people know their roles. Some people where I work are "mandatory reporters" and if someone tells them about an assault or harassment, they are required as part of their job to inform the appropriate authority. Most people are not. Most people, especially at a private business, are not going to be considered a mandatory reporter and if someone is then they absolutely would know that status. Other people are allowed to support a victim in whatever way the victim asks, including maintaining confidence.

 

We do this because there are jobs (school teachers, in particular) who are in positions of public trust and authority who we have decided as a society that they can't keep things quiet. (not coincidentally, this can also help victims come forward: by telling a mandatory reporter they can trigger the start of something official starting with someone they can speak with more comfortably rather than straight to the police) A columnist/writer for a website isn't going to be a mandatory reporter.

 

This is a serious accusation. It's been followed up by some preliminary investigation and commentary from people who have inside information that lends additional credibility to the accusation. The victim has gone on the record in public. The Twins had better take this extremely seriously.

 

Regardless of what happens in this specific case, I'd suggest that the organization should rethink how it handles sexual harassment training and how they handle that training both in how it relates to players and staff. They will need to ensure that they are handling that training in a comprehensive fashion that addresses cultural and language barriers as they arise and not assume a basic "one size fits all" approach will be effective.

[PseudoSABR]

 

I'm staggered that anyone would attack Nick Nelson for not reporting this assault accusation to legal authorities. That's not his responsibility and absent the consent of the accuser, he has nothing substantive to add to the conversation. The fact that this would come up is further evidence how much further we have to go in dealing with sexual harassment, sexual assault, and related issues in our society.

 

At my job we have mandatory training that we are required to renew every year. It's comprehensive and actually quite informative for people who take it seriously. (The interactive web-based system used does a respectable job in making people people engage on the topic as well) One of the topics covered is the concept of mandatory reporting, so that people know their roles. Some people where I work are "mandatory reporters" and if someone tells them about an assault or harassment, they are required as part of their job to inform the appropriate authority. Most people are not. Most people, especially at a private business, are not going to be considered a mandatory reporter and if someone is then they absolutely would know that status. Other people are allowed to support a victim in whatever way the victim asks, including maintaining confidence.

 

We do this because there are jobs (school teachers, in particular) who are in positions of public trust and authority who we have decided as a society that they can't keep things quiet. (not coincidentally, this can also help victims come forward: by telling a mandatory reporter they can trigger the start of something official starting with someone they can speak with more comfortably rather than straight to the police) A columnist/writer for a website isn't going to be a mandatory reporter.

 

This is a serious accusation. It's been followed up by some preliminary investigation and commentary from people who have inside information that lends additional credibility to the accusation. The victim has gone on the record in public. The Twins had better take this extremely seriously.

 

Regardless of what happens in this specific case, I'd suggest that the organization should rethink how it handles sexual harassment training and how they handle that training both in how it relates to players and staff. They will need to ensure that they are handling that training in a comprehensive fashion that addresses cultural and language barriers as they arise and not assume a basic "one size fits all" approach will be effective.

Thanks for this articulate, thoughtful post.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Not sure where to put this, but it’s a blog I’ve never seen before weighing in

 

http://therunnersports.com/twins-must-change-to-handle-miguel-sano-situation-correctly/

[Sam Morley]

regarding the posts about false allegations:

 

I suspect that if we were to see the overall number of sexual assaults go down, that both the overall number and % of falsely reported sexual assaults would go down.

 

If this were to be the case, then for those especially concerned about this high % of false reports, the best way to reduce false allegations is to reduce truthful allegations/actual incidents (as opposed to heavily scrutinizing all reports in case they might be false).

 

The best ways to reduce incidents of sexual assault are to teach our children well; and to stop active perpetrators, hold them accountable, and prevent them from reoffending. 

 

In order to stop active perpetrators, hold them accountable, and prevent them from reoffending, more and more women will have to continue to fight back, report incidents, and stand up for themselves against the odds and in the face of negative blowback. Society, individuals, and institutions will have to increasingly believe them, support them, and pursue justice on their behalf. 

 

I think that unfortunate though it may be, a side effect of the increase in accountability for perpetrators of sexual assault is going to be that occasionally some false allegations will be temporarily embarrassing and/or damaging for the men accused- and very rarely, seriously damaging. (One thing amidst the statistics about false allegations that hasn't been mentioned is the % of false allegations that result in a conviction. Or even better put, the % of incidents of sexual assault that result in a falsely convicted man.) I think we will have to live with that in the short term if we want to see larger progress and justice in the long term.

[mlhouse]

 

 

 

 

Someone yelling "show me your XXXXXX" is sexual harassment.

 

 

No, it isn't.