Miguel Sano accused of assault by photographer

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well her statement says that she fought him for 10 minutes as he tried to pull her into the bathroom. I don't think its fair to reconstruct her statement to make the allegations more straightforward.

 

edited to add: and in follow-ups, she mentioned that she's a boxer, and that her physical prowess basically was the reason she successfully resisted. 

 

I believe that she believes that, but it doesn't sound quite right.

You can't imagine Sano trying to get her to relent for 10 minutes.  That seems like a small time in order to defy credulity.   That she's boxer has nothing to do with it.  (If she was really threatened, she would have gauged his eyes out, drawn gun, screamed for help, etc.etc.)

 

In bygone years, the legal standard by which they would measure criminal sexual assault was whether the woman resisted as a reasonable person would have, never mind that these were all old, white, male judges making such assessments.   Thank god, that's no longer the legal standard. 

[d-mac]

Oh boy.

 

This is not something I wanted see when I opened my Twitter this afternoon. If true, this is some pretty serious stuff. And should be dealt with severely.

 

Now I'm not one to believe an accusation blindly, but I believe her in this situation based on her sharing of this story with folks in the Twins blogosphere that I trust. I feel bad for Betsy and I feel awful that nobody intervened.

 

Certainly, if true, this puts Falvins and co. in a very difficult and delicate situation.

[Doomtints]

No excuses/no words. We are talking about Sano almost exclusively in these threads, but this is about Betsy. Sano's punishment and future as a Twin can be decided later.

 

We support you, Betsy.

[drivlikejehu]

 

You can't imagine Sano trying to get her to relent for 10 minutes.  That seems like a small time in order to defy credulity.   That she's boxer has nothing to do with it.  (If she was really threatened, she would have gauged his eyes out, drawn gun, screamed for help, etc.etc.)

 

In bygone years, the legal standard by which they would measure criminal sexual assault was whether the woman resisted as a reasonable person would have, never mind that these were all old, white, male judges making such assessments.   Thank god, that's no longer the legal standard. 

 

Well her comments are literally 100% of the current source of information regarding this. So the way she puts things and her follow-up statements are the only thing there is to go on. 

 

Relatively small details can be significant with respect to how severe the offense was. She's accusing Sano of multiple felonies - felony assault, kidnapping, and attempted sexual assault at a minimum.

 

Even assuming he made unwanted advances, I don't think the story she told was detailed or coherent enough for us to informally convict Sano of such serious charges.

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well her comments are literally 100% of the current source of information regarding this. So the way she puts things and her follow-up statements are the only thing there is to go on. 

 

Relatively small details can be significant with respect to how severe the offense was. She's accusing Sano of multiple felonies - felony assault, kidnapping, and attempted sexual assault at a minimum.

 

Even assuming he made unwanted advances, I don't think the story she told was detailed or coherent enough for us to informally convict Sano of such serious charges.

Well, certainly, her allegations as such are likely not enough to convict Sano of a crime (whether they are true or not).   But whatever incongruities or vagaries you may see I don't think should lead any of us to doubt her account--that she was assaulted by Sano.   

[Ultima Ratio]

I don't know what to believe vis-a-vis the allegation and denial.  But, I do believe in due process. Allegations are always more credible when made in a timely manner.  So, I hope something else comes out.

[drivlikejehu]

 

Well, certainly, her allegations as such are likely not enough to convict Sano of a crime (whether they are true or not).   But whatever incongruities or vagaries you may see I don't think should lead any of us to doubt her account--that she was assaulted by Sano.   

 

Sure, but as I said initially, there is a big difference that is conceivable in terms of the severity of what happened. Even putting aside the legal aspect, that goes straight to the issue of how the Twins/MLB should punish Sano. 

[John Bonnes]

I haven't had a chance to read the 100+ comments on these pages, but I'll add a few points that I made in the story. 

 

My default position in this is always to take the accuser at their word, albeit while awaiting additional information. Knowing Betsy, that is doubly so the case. I believe her, the event she describe sounds terrifying, and I hope she is getting the support she needs through all of this. I've personally offered to support her.

 

Betsy volunteered for us both to take pictures at Twins games and at several event. Many of you have probably met her at our events. I don't know the number of times, she had those credentials, since she worked with Parker directly on some of them, but it is a few times per year, I think. 

 

Finally, the part about Twins Daily being "stripped" of access isn't correct. We are never guaranteed of access, but the Twins have been very good about giving us access when we have asked. It is, in general, harder to get photo well access, just because they tend to fill up faster and because we have access to USPresswire photos, so it's hard to say we "need" that access. But the Twins PR staff has been very good to us about access over the past five years, since we started asking, and we reaffirmed that we'll be getting credentials for spring training just a few weeks ago.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Sure, but as I said initially, there is a big difference that is conceivable in terms of the severity of what happened. Even putting aside the legal aspect, that goes straight to the issue of how the Twins/MLB should punish Sano. 

What issue in terms of severity are you questioning? The ten-minute time frame? That Sano was holding her by the wrists?  The forced kisses? 

 

And as I've said, the issue of punishment is different from the conclusion that an assault happened.  In some people's quest to get the punishment right, they seem to be skipping passed the need to say that an assault happened, and a women was victimized.

[S.]

I'll probably get blasted for this, but I'm not in the camp of always automatically believing the accuser. Thats not to say I don't believe her either, but false accusations happen more often than people might think. Or the stories get changed a bit from the real reality - either intentionally or the person simply remembers it differently because it was a traumatic event. Maybe its exactly as she said, maybe it isn't. Maybe he came onto her and she said no and he tried to convince her for a minute but it felt like 10 minutes to her. I don't know. You don't know. The only people who know what really happened are Sano and the photographer (and the agent/anyone else was around if they saw some of this take place).

 

Basically, I'm in the camp that it needs to be investigated before people jump to judgement. It wouldn't be the first time an athlete has done something ****ty. It also wouldnt be the first time an athlete was falsely accused. If she physically resisted him grabbing/tugging at her for 10 minutes she almost certainly would have had bruises or abrasions. And she is a professional photographer, so it seems like a reasonable assumption that she would've taken photos or some sort of documentation of this. The exif data on photos could easily verify the date and time.

[KirbyDome89]

 

I do not think we need to investigate the credibility of the accuser to protect Sano's reputation or job. 

It isn't about protecting his job or reputation. It's about protecting his rights as the accused. Do you realize what a horrible precedent would be set if the burden of proof lay on the accused? That is precisely the reason other posters have been vocal about their dislike of social media and the "mob justice," it dishes out. 

 

We can sympathize with a victim having to go through the difficult process of rehashing a trauma but at the same time understand the necessity of it. 

[PseudoSABR]

 

It isn't about protecting his job or reputation. It's about protecting his rights as the accused. Do you realize what a horrible precedent would be set if the burden of proof lay on the accused? That is precisely the reason other posters have been vocal about their dislike of social media and the "mob justice," it dishes out. 

 

We can sympathize with a victim having to go through the difficult process of rehashing a trauma but at the same time understand the necessity of it. 

He doesn't have any rights as a private person accused by another private person. (He may have the right to sue for libel/slander, but truth is a defense against such).  You're conflating public judgment with criminal liability.  Sano is not going to face jail time because twitter (or Twins Daily) thinks he's an abuser.   We as individuals owe Sano nothing, and are free to judge with the facts we have.

[Vanimal46]

As I'm reading her account again, wouldn't Sano's agent and her boss (or the guy she worked with) be eye witnesses? They were all outside, Sano asked where the restroom was (right through the door they exited) then they fought for a solid 10 minutes to get her back in the door. Where were the other 2 men? Their car was parked just outside the door.

 

And why didn't the 2 other men step in and say "hurry up let's go" if Sano was leaning in for kisses and she was not reciprocating? Were they just sitting in the car and ignoring the outside world for 10 minutes?

 

Again, I'm not taking any sides in this case. Just trying to make sense of the story and where the 2 other men went after they exited the mall.

[drivlikejehu]

 

What issue in terms of severity are you questioning? The ten-minute time frame? That Sano was holding her by the wrists?  The forced kisses? 

 

And as I've said, the issue of punishment is different from the conclusion that an assault happened.  In some people's quest to get the punishment right, they seem to be skipping passed the need to say that an assault happened, and a women was victimized.

 

I said in my initial post that I believed she was assaulted. Since you responded to that very post, presumably you are referring to someone else in your second paragraph.

 

With respect to the incident in question, yes I do question whether Sano attacked her for 10 minutes, while she screamed, in an attempt to drag her into the bathroom for the purposes of sexually assaulting her. She explicitly accused him of that. She explicitly is claiming that he tried as hard as he could, but that she resisted successfully due to her abilities in self-defense.

 

I personally doubt that she is physically capable of fighting off Sano for any substantial length of time if he was really trying to do that. 

[bunsen82]

S. I am in your camp, and its not to discredit her, but we already have one incongruency already posted that deals directly with this site.  What is to say the facts were slightly exaggerated, this becomes a completely different story and possibly a non story.  She will have to have proof to back this up. As I stated some photo evidence of bruising, and there would be bruising based off of 10 minutes of physical manhandling and her trying to pull away for 10 minutes and yelling and screaming.  That is where this story doesn't stick for me.   I find it very difficult to believe 10 minutes of yelling and screaming and nobody comes including an agent and likely other individual that we believe should still be on the other side of the door unless I read her account wrong.  It is not to say she felt this way and her perception is her reality, but I question whether that reality is what really happened.  Its hard to say.  

[KirbyDome89]

 

He doesn't have any rights as a private person accused by another private person. (He may have the right to sue for libel/slander, but truth is a defense against such).  You're conflating public judgment with criminal liability.  Sano is not going to face jail time because twitter (or Twins Daily) thinks he's an abuser.   We as individuals owe Sano nothing, and are free to judge with the facts we have.

There is a difference between withholding judgement and skipping an investigation. Feel free to judge until your heart is content but you've stated in multiple posts that investigating the matter isn't necessary. It is. I disagree that a twitter post is enough to warrant disciplinary action by the Twins. Can you imagine if they decided to hand down a punishment with nothing more than a tweet to back it up? The MLBPA would have a field day. Like it or not, a proper vetting of the events by both sides is the best course of action.  

[bunsen82]

How so Northwest, I can tell you personally I was accused through my workplace of a similar situation- not nearly to the level of this.  It was not true, had no basis and that was how it was discovered during the investigation.  If you took my accuser at her word where would that leave me.  Its not to say the perception of that individual was wrong, maybe her perception was skewed, but its also to say, we have tangible evidence one of her statements was wrong, proven by John.  I will leave it at that.  I am also not discrediting her, no negative comments towards her, just saying lets let this play out, if what occurred is what is stated there will be other things supporting this. 

[jsteve96]

 

Trade his ass. For a song.

I hope we trade him, find out he didn't do anything wrong just so I can watch the people who only listen to one side of the story whine about how we gave up an MVP for nothing.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

but its also to say, we have tangible evidence one of her statements was wrong, proven by John.

Okay, back the **** up right now and stop using this as defense of your argument. Betsy is not privy to Twins Daily's private dealings with the Twins organization. What she typed was a simple mistake, gleaned from information she received secondhand from god knows where.

 

It has NOTHING to do with the veracity of her PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

[jsteve96]

 

Sano needs be cut immediately. I don't care how good he is....there should be zero tolerance for this sort of thing.

LMAO David Ortiz part 2 with an probable innocent man

[Thrylos]

This sucks.   I feel sorry for Betsy.

 

People just do not make up stuff like that in so much detail. 

 

He was wrong.  Period.  He might have not known that what he did, and might not believe that what he did is wrong and not permissible in this culture, because it might not be likely is not wrong in the culture he grew up.  But this does not make it less wrong.   Period.

 

The Twins (and the player agents) need to do a better job of teaching their international players what is culturally permissible here and what is not.  

 

Every single job has annual training about what is sexual harassment.   The MLB should institute that training as well, especially for players from other cultures. 

I hope that this is taken as a opportunity for learning and healing, and that teams make sure that situations like that do not happen again.

[DaveW]

I will say the timing and chosen method of ‘release’ of this info seems a little odd.

 

IMO she should have taken this to either the police, The Twins or MLB first.

 

While I understand 110% why rape victims etc are hesitant to come forward soon after the attack (and sometimes never at all) I have to say that waiting two years to come out with this (after allegedly losing ‘access’ to the Twins? According to some in this thread) at least raises a minimal amount of suspicsion. To go out on twitter and do it? Not saying it was wrong etc, just seems like she maybe should have contacted a lawyer first to go about it the best way. By her own account it didnt goto sexual assault as per the letter of the law (other than Sano trying to kiss her and allegedly trying to hold/grab her into a bathroom for up to ten minutes)

 

Again, I always believe the accuser, but this seems to not be as cut and dry as a Matt lauer, Harvey Weinstein, etc type of thing, and reminds me a tiny bit of the Oklahoma RB situation that transpired.

 

I know that some of you guys know her personally, and I get that, but I would suggest you guys remain a little impartial as well until their is at least an investigation.

 

Like most things I feel the truth lies somewhere in the middle in this case, it doesn’t make Sano any less “wrong” but the severity may not be asdamning as some want to jump to.

[John Bonnes]

Okay, back the **** up right now and stop using this as defense of your argument. Betsy is not privy to Twins Daily's private dealings with the Twins organization. What she typed was a simple mistake, gleaned from information she received secondhand from god knows where.

 

It has NOTHING to do with the veracity of her PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

Exactly. Thank you Brock for clarifying this.

[jsteve96]

 

  Sano's reputation, nor his job, are not protected by due process--and I do not think we need to investigate the credibility of the accuser to protect Sano's reputation or job. 

 

 

This statement is BS. No person should lose their job over accusations with no proof. You have to look into the credibility, otherwise it is defamation.

If he is proven innocent in a year he should sue for all she has until she's living on the streets.

 

If the allegations are proven true, He should be suspended the whole season and fined big money. 

 

She should have taken this to court, not to twitter.

[DaveW]

 

 

Every single job has annual training about what is sexual harassment .

That isn’t even close to true, even in America.

[Bob Sacamento]

 

He was wrong.  Period.  He might have not known that what he did, and might not believe that what he did is wrong and not permissible in this culture, because it might not be likely is not wrong in the culture he grew up.  But this does not make it less wrong.   Period.

 

You hit on an aspect there of the culture (Dominican where he grew up) that I have seen firsthand especially in South Florida. It doesn't make it better and it's not an excuse but it happens alot, alot more than one might think.  

 

Hopefully this is an isolated incident from Sano but I can't say I would be shocked if more accusations come out that's unfortunately how these things work. One comes out then more.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Okay, back the **** up right now and stop using this as defense of your argument. Betsy is not privy to Twins Daily's private dealings with the Twins organization. What she typed was a simple mistake, gleaned from information she received secondhand from god knows where.

 

It has NOTHING to do with the veracity of her PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.

The poster isn't privy to those private dealings or where she is getting that info from either so I believe the same understanding should be shown to the individual. 

 

It sounds to me like the post you're quoting is a personal experience as well. I would hesitate to tell somebody to "back the **** up," simply because their default position differs from yours. 

 

**Before people freak out, no, this isn't a defense of Sano or a profession of his innocence in any way. It's a reminder that this thread shouldn't turn into a battle for moral high ground.

[DaveW]

You hit on an aspect there of the culture (Dominican where he grew up) that I have seen firsthand especially in South Florida. It doesn't make it better and it's not an excuse but it happens alot, alot more than one might think.

 

Hopefully this is an isolated incident from Sano but I can't say I would be shocked if more accusations come out that's unfortunately how these things work. One comes out then more.

I’d tread carefully here, I lived in Washington heights for 4 years with two white females (prob the most concentrated Dominican population in the USA) and while yes, there were certainly cultural differences towards how men would approach women (I’d personally call it a lot of ‘somewhat respectful catcalling’ towards them) the fact is everyone still knew what he boundaries were when it came to physical interaction, touch etc.

 

To imply that domincans think that grabbing someone, trying to aggressively pull them into a bathroom etc is ‘ok because of their culture’ is not only dangerous, but pretty misguided and potentially racist as well.

 

Also having spent a lot of time in every continent except Africa and Antarctica I am pretty confident that people throughout the globe know when someone is uncomfortable/not willing in these sort of situations.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The poster isn't privy to those private dealings or where she is getting that info from either so I believe the same understanding should be shown to the individual.

 

It sounds to me like the post you're quoting is a personal experience as well. I would hesitate to tell somebody to "back the **** up," simply because their default position differs from yours.

 

**Before people freak out, no, this isn't a defense of Sano or a profession of his innocence in any way. It's a reminder that this thread shouldn't turn into a battle for moral high ground.

Sorry, but nope. I’m not going to stand back and allow someone to use what was a secondhand information mistake (and irrelevant to the conversation at hand) to invalidate a firsthand personal experience.

[Mr. Brooks]

This statement is BS. No person should lose their job over accusations with no proof. You have to look into the credibility, otherwise it is defamation.

If he is proven innocent in a year he should sue for all she has until she's living on the streets.

 

If the allegations are proven true, He should be suspended the whole season and fined big money.

 

She should have taken this to court, not to twitter.

So, if he's proven innocent (which is impossible by the way, you can't prove a negative), she should lose everything and have to live on the streets?

But, if he's proven guilty, he shouldn't lose everything and have to live on the streets? Just a moderate punishment, that won't really affect his quality of life in any meaningful way?

 

Waiting for more evidence is a totally fair stance, but statements like they above show your complete lack of objectivity regarding this matter.