Twins sign Fernando Rodney. Break out the champagne! Twins agree to terms with Zach Duke. Sign me up for 4 season tickets! So you think the new Falvey/Levine regime is going to jump into the free agent market and create a championship team? Ha, ha- think again, suckers.

Pitching is everything, right? So the new front office promised to address this area when they came aboard in 2017.

Let me remind everyone of their additions:

1.) Craig Breslow

2.) Matt Belisle

3.) Justin Haley

Apparently, signing all the geriatric pitchers was intended to provide leadership and it must have worked! The new save specialist is 41, and the new loogy will be 35 in April. Thank God for these two, for now our bullpen is set and look out everyone.

But what about the starters that Falvine said they would address. Hey Twins Territory, we are going after Yu Darvish-trust us! Hey, trust me too-President Obama is coming to my house for New Year’s!

Twins fans are so gullible. For years the front office has promised us they were going to sign top line free agents- especially pitchers- so they could compete with the big boys-especially Cleveland in our division. But in truth, they have no desire to spend the money, especially this off-season, since “informed” sources have said the Twins won’t be a major factor until 2019 or 2020.

In addition, you really think the stars in this free agent class-Darvish, Arrieta, Lynn, even Cobb- want to play in Minnesota? Instead of the big markets in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles? Or the weather friendly Florida or California teams?

For what it’s worth, none of this really matters. Apparently, Major League Baseball is ok with all of its stars being located in just the major markets, with proof of this being the trade of Giancarlo “Michael” Stanton to the Yankees for a dozen used soccer balls.

Just save the money Minnesota Twins, so I can afford to take my grandchildren to the games. They don’t care yet who wins or loses!

It's still winter. At least wait for the Vikings to implode before turning on the Twins. The Twins have time to make moves that matter (though let's hope they start soon).

...Where’s the Tylenol?

 

Twins sign Fernando Rodney. Break out the champagne! Twins agree to terms with Zach Duke. Sign me up for 4 season tickets! So you think the new Falvey/Levine regime is going to jump into the free agent market and create a championship team? Ha, ha- think again, suckers.
Pitching is everything, right? So the new front office promised to address this area when they came aboard in 2017.
Let me remind everyone of their additions:
1.) Craig Breslow
2.) Matt Belisle
3.) Justin Haley
Apparently, signing all the geriatric pitchers was intended to provide leadership and it must have worked! The new save specialist is 41, and the new loogy will be 35 in April. Thank God for these two, for now our bullpen is set and look out everyone.
But what about the starters that Falvine said they would address. Hey Twins Territory, we are going after Yu Darvish-trust us! Hey, trust me too-President Obama is coming to my house for New Year’s!
Twins fans are so gullible. For years the front office has promised us they were going to sign top line free agents- especially pitchers- so they could compete with the big boys-especially Cleveland in our division. But in truth, they have no desire to spend the money, especially this off-season, since “informed” sources have said the Twins won’t be a major factor until 2019 or 2020.
In addition, you really think the stars in this free agent class-Darvish, Arrieta, Lynn, even Cobb- want to play in Minnesota? Instead of the big markets in New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles? Or the weather friendly Florida or California teams?
For what it’s worth, none of this really matters. Apparently, Major League Baseball is ok with all of its stars being located in just the major markets, with proof of this being the trade of Giancarlo “Michael” Stanton to the Yankees for a dozen used soccer balls.
Just save the money Minnesota Twins, so I can afford to take my grandchildren to the games. They don’t care yet who wins or loses!

 

 

Damn, I didn't know the offseason was over already. It just flew by!

The worst thing about peoples' complaining is that, mixed into their complaints is the straw man that claims those of us that aren't complaining have "broken out the champagne"

But what if it's a room full of poison gas?

 

The worst thing about peoples' complaining is that, mixed into their complaints is the straw man that claims those of us that aren't complaining have "broken out the champagne"

 

Not only that, but keep in mind last year they were trying to build up a team that had just lost 100 games. That's probably a hard sell for most free agents, but also it doesn't make sense to add a bunch to your payroll when you don't know your baseline.

 

Now they have a much better idea of the talent of this team, and now it's married to some pretty positive results. This offseason -- or next, especially -- is the time to add. This offseason makes more sense with the big-money teams cutting payroll to get under luxury tax thresholds for next offseason. Beyond that, there are going to be more big-money teams than there are players next year, so that's going to trickle down to the markets for starters like Dallas Keuchel and Garrett Richards.

 

Sign Darvish now, save the headache of trying to outbid a jilted team next year.  

Please refer back to this post when Twins don’t sign any significant players.

However, I WILL eat my words if I am wrong!

I'll hold my breath if I want to

 

I'll hold my breath if I want to

 

I held my breath, passed out, and now I'm holding it again. The Twins better sign someone, I can't go on like this.

Darn.  Must be even more horrible at Cleveland that lost:

 

Carlos Santana,  Jay Bruce, Bryan Shaw, Joe Smith, Boone Logan, Austin Jackson

 

and replaced them with

 

Yonder Alonso, and a bunch of had been and never had been MiLB FA.  On paper, that's about a  loss of 8-10 wins.

 

At least all the Twins lost this off-season are minor leaguers and misfits.

 

Long post-season left.

Edited December 27, 20178 yr by Thrylos

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

 

Twins sign Fernando Rodney. Break out the champagne! Twins agree to terms with Zach Duke. Sign me up for 4 season tickets! 

 

I don't recall seeing anyone reacting to the Rodney and Duke signings this way. I think w're pretty realistic about what Rodney and Duke are and what they are not, and no one is suggesting they are reasons to get all that excited.

 

For years the front office has promised us they were going to sign top line free agents- especially pitchers- so they could compete with the big boys-especially Cleveland in our division. 

 

This is another place where my memory is different than yours.  Under TR I never had the sense that the Twins were in on top free agent pitchers.  I never for a moment thought they were going to sign Zach Greinke, for example.  TR even had a word for contracts like that - "legacy contracts", and he pretty much flat out said the Twins would never sign a free agent to one of them. I never felt like I was promised a top free agent pitcher before, but I am more optimistic now that the Twins have a real shot at one.

 

 

 

 

Please refer back to this post when Twins don’t sign any significant players.
However, I WILL eat my words if I am wrong!

 

Well, I certainly hope the Twins do sign Darvish and make you eat your words, but even if they don't I still respectfully disagree with the premise of your first post.

 

Pitching is everything, right? So the new front office promised to address this area when they came aboard in 2017.
Let me remind everyone of their additions:
1.) Craig Breslow
2.) Matt Belisle
3.) Justin Haley
 

 

How could you forget the incredible mass of the king of the geriatric pitchers, Bartolo Colón, that had been declared an emerging nation and torched Atlanta with great ineptitude for half of the year?

 

I never hold my breath. I really don’t want to strike a pose like drjim when he’s passed out on the floor. (Pictures later.)

 

Sure, I hope for everything. I want my team to be the best. But I also want world peace. Somewhere in there is some perspective which is why I don’t hold my breath.

Please refer back to this post when Twins don’t sign any significant players.

However, I WILL eat my words if I am wrong!

Then wouldn't it have been easier to just post this rant later instead of asking everyone to prematurely search for our pitchforks?

 

Not only that, but keep in mind last year they were trying to build up a team that had just lost 100 games. That's probably a hard sell for most free agents, but also it doesn't make sense to add a bunch to your payroll when you don't know your baseline.

 

Now they have a much better idea of the talent of this team, and now it's married to some pretty positive results. This offseason -- or next, especially -- is the time to add. This offseason makes more sense with the big-money teams cutting payroll to get under luxury tax thresholds for next offseason. Beyond that, there are going to be more big-money teams than there are players next year, so that's going to trickle down to the markets for starters like Dallas Keuchel and Garrett Richards.

 

Sign Darvish now, save the headache of trying to outbid a jilted team next year.  

 

If they didn't have a grip on the talent on this team before they took the job, then they are horrible baseball execs. I don't believe that is true. They did know, and chose to ride the year out with basically no improvements, and even tried to tear down what was surprisingly performing better than they thought it would. The results were not tied to anything they did, as they did just about nothing (except try to sabotage it with jettisoning Kintzler and Garcia, and adding the rejected tanking Colon).

 

Still plenty of time to sign Darvish, until they let someone else sign him first. Personally, after watching him pitch for the Dodgers, I am not so keen on Darvish. Whether Darvish or Jake, or Lynn or Cobb, or whoever...... my bet is they will regret the contract before it is half over...... regardless. But I still want them to spend the money.

Edited December 27, 20178 yr by h2oface

 

Not only that, but keep in mind last year they were trying to build up a team that had just lost 100 games. That's probably a hard sell for most free agents, but also it doesn't make sense to add a bunch to your payroll when you don't know your baseline.

 

Now they have a much better idea of the talent of this team, and now it's married to some pretty positive results. This offseason -- or next, especially -- is the time to add. This offseason makes more sense with the big-money teams cutting payroll to get under luxury tax thresholds for next offseason. Beyond that, there are going to be more big-money teams than there are players next year, so that's going to trickle down to the markets for starters like Dallas Keuchel and Garrett Richards.

 

Sign Darvish now, save the headache of trying to outbid a jilted team next year.  

 

I don't know. Lots of FAs go for the money first..... lots of FAs sign with bad teams. I think fans over estimate, where money is not close, just how important a good team is. It's mostly about money.

 

Secondly, it didn't take a genius front office to know the SP was bad, and was likely to remain bad. I don't understand what had to be analyzed or observed to know they needed more pitching last year. Whether there was pitching they liked or not, that's a different question. But no one had to observe anything for another year to know they needed more SP.

Edited December 27, 20178 yr by Mike Sixel

 

If they didn't have a grip on the talent on this team before they took the job, then they are horrible baseball execs.

 

No, they knew what kind of talent that team had. I've quoted Thad Levine on that many times. But you still need time to evaluate that talent and where it's at on the winning curve/window before supplementing it. It's a cautious, measured approach. 

I'm not exactly the most positive person on this board, but c'mon, It's not even 2018 yet. Even if your expectations are low, give it a few more months before you start to panic. 

I'm not too concerned as their really haven't been a lot of activity league wide.

Also, remember this is a sports team. A game. None of this actually matters to any of us, excluding anyone reading this who might be on the payroll.

 

We have to remember to not take this stuff too seriously. It's fun when the Twins win, but we have proven we will stay interested even if they don't, so it's only ourselves we are fooling when we go off on a tangent like this.

 

(And yeah, this goes both ways, there's also no reason to blindly support the bad decisions either.)

 

Here's the thing. No Twins GM has ever said they'd sign a top free agent. Ever. Both Levine and Ryan have said similar things about payroll - stay within limits, build up a better farm/analytic department, look for good fits in FA. But every year, fans get super excited about a big name free agent signing here and then blame the GM when they don't get him.

This has a very different vibe - in this case the FO jumped up and said we are going to sign... It was not the fans who started this thread.

Come on.

 

Look, if come February the Twins haven't done much, then it's time to start hammering the team. But look at the facts:

 

1. TONS of free agents have yet to sign. That includes Yu Darvish, Alex Cobb and Jake Arrieta.

2. The overall market for starting pitchers has been completely non-existent thus far. Name one major trade involving a starter or free agent signing.

3. Few players have signed with new teams. Carlos Santana is the exception.

4. Few teams have done much. Outside the Yankees, Angels and Phillies, name one team that has made a major move?

5. Thus far, teams in the AL Central have gone backwards. 

6. There are plenty of reasons to be cautious about free agent starters. Would you give a six-year deal to Yu Darvish? I think the Twins should, even if it hurts them in that last year. But it's perfectly reasonable for a team to be cautious about such a contract given how fragile pitchers are these days. 

 

Seriously. There is no reason to start trashing the front office at this point. 

 

Come on.

 

Look, if come February the Twins haven't done much, then it's time to start hammering the team. But look at the facts:

 

1. TONS of free agents have yet to sign. That includes Yu Darvish, Alex Cobb and Jake Arrieta.

2. The overall market for starting pitchers has been completely non-existent thus far. Name one major trade involving a starter or free agent signing.

3. Few players have signed with new teams. Carlos Santana is the exception.

4. Few teams have done much. Outside the Yankees, Angels and Phillies, name one team that has made a major move?

5. Thus far, teams in the AL Central have gone backwards. 

6. There are plenty of reasons to be cautious about free agent starters. Would you give a six-year deal to Yu Darvish? I think the Twins should, even if it hurts them in that last year. But it's perfectly reasonable for a team to be cautious about such a contract given how fragile pitchers are these days. 

 

Seriously. There is no reason to start trashing the front office at this point. 

 

 

I agree with basically everything you've said except for the fact that the Yankee's have traded for Stanton and the Giant's just traded for Longoria. He's probably not a star anymore but still a good player.

 

I agree with basically everything you've said except for the fact that the Yankee's have traded for Stanton and the Giant's just traded for Longoria. He's probably not a star anymore but still a good player.

 

When did Stanton become a starting pitcher? 

 

(Starter in this context = starting pitcher)

 

When did Stanton become a starting pitcher? 

 

(Starter in this context = starting pitcher)

 

Well then yes, I agree with everything you said.

Chill man. Strip down to your longjohns and step outside. Recognize the place? Yeah, it's Minnesota. The state where expectations are high, winter depression runs rampant and sports disappointment comes with our morning coffee. Visit U-Tube. Watch the '91 World Series then repeat after me: "This isn't Kansas anymore."

 

Thank all that may be holy.

 

You'll feel better when we once again cross the freezing mark and spring training starts. Then we can start ripping the Twins when they're in season. Right now it's the Vikings turn. Even though they haven't been cooperating.

 

Not only that, but keep in mind last year they were trying to build up a team that had just lost 100 games. That's probably a hard sell for most free agents, but also it doesn't make sense to add a bunch to your payroll when you don't know your baseline.

 

Now they have a much better idea of the talent of this team, and now it's married to some pretty positive results. This offseason -- or next, especially -- is the time to add. This offseason makes more sense with the big-money teams cutting payroll to get under luxury tax thresholds for next offseason. Beyond that, there are going to be more big-money teams than there are players next year, so that's going to trickle down to the markets for starters like Dallas Keuchel and Garrett Richards.

 

Sign Darvish now, save the headache of trying to outbid a jilted team next year.  

Agree that they need to start adding this offseason. They aren't winning the Kershaw sweepstakes next winter and they likely could end up paying more for lesser pitcher than they would get this year.  

 

This team sinks or swims with the young core. Holding off on adding to payroll in order to find a baseline for that group just means another year of talent on rookie contracts burned.