Article: Twins Must Get Creative To Lure Darvish

[jharaldson]

 

Besides, he's going to get a lot more than $140 million, IMO.

 

TwinsDaily predicted 5 years/$135 million and MLB Trade Rumors predicted 6 years/$160 million so I think my estimate is close enough for discussion purposes.

[jharaldson]

 

Not sure the taxes work that way, but even if they do, I can't see the Twins or anyone giving out a signing bonus like that. 

 

Joe Mauer moved to Florida when he was drafted and established residency there in order to pay Florida state income taxes (0%) on his $5 million signing bonus.  Here is a quote from a Reusse story back in 2001 that I got off of WestlawNext:

 

 

Joe Mauer: What could be the Twins' last act of Minnesota loyalty was to use the No. l draft pick on Mauer, the St. Paul high school star. Mauer was so moved he delayed most of the $5 million signing bonus until he could establish residency in Florida and avoid Minnesota taxes.

 

I am pretty sure that Darvish would be treated the same way.  The signing bonus is taxed by your residency state and your actual paychecks are taxed based on where you played individual games.

 

In regards to the size of the bonus, that is where the innovation comes in.  If no other team would do it then it is a differentiator for the Twins offer.

Edited December 19, 2017 by jharaldson

[Mike Sixel]

 

Joe Mauer moved to Florida when he was drafted and established residency there in order to pay Florida state income taxes (0%) on his $5 million signing bonus.  Here is a quote from a Reusse story back in 2001 that I got off of WestlawNext:

 

 

I am pretty sure that Darvish would be treated the same way.  The signing bonus is taxed by your residency state and your actual paychecks are taxed based on where you played individual games.

 

In regards to the size of the bonus, that is where the innovation comes in.  If no other team would do it then it is a differentiator for the Twins offer.

 

interesting. thanks. I figured that bonus was part of his major league salary for the year, but maybe not.

[laloesch]

Well he just met with the Astros after meeting with the Cubs. Better hope Falvey and Levine line up a meeting with him or they could miss out.

[drock2190]

Are the Twins still very interested? I feel like Darvish isn't enthused about the prospects of joining the team otherwise there would have been a meeting set up by now.

Edited December 19, 2017 by drock2190

[Riverbrian]

 

Are the Twins still very interested? I feel like Darvish isn't enthused about the prospects of joining the team otherwise there would have been a meeting set up by now.

 

Personally, I'm not going to worry about a meeting... that much... at least not yet.     

 

Maybe one is scheduled for later.

 

Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to throw a hail mary because they are behind.

 

Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting because they are offering less and they have some B.S. to peddle. 

 

Maybe the Cubs and Astros need the meeting to get a quick assessment on probability before determining if they need to move on to Arrieta or Cobb. 

 

I'll worry later.     

 

 

Although... it sure would be a lot easier if we didn't have 29 other teams to contend with on EVERYTHING!!! 

 

[PseudoSABR]

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/943274669603516416

[Squirrel]

 

Are the Twins still very interested? I feel like Darvish isn't enthused about the prospects of joining the team otherwise there would have been a meeting set up by now.

Are you sure they haven't met? Or talked extensively? Darvish has a good relationship with Thad Levine from what I've read. I don't blame Darvish for meeting with other teams and seeing all that's out there for him. That said, I've always been skeptical that he would come here even amid some hopeful reports ... mind you, I'm still hoping, I'm just not holding my breath for any length of time.

[Riverbrian]

 

https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/943274669603516416

 

I've figured it out. He is meeting with teams in order... based on the size of contract. Working from least amount offered to largest amount offered. 

 

The Twins will be the last team he meets with.     

 

I hope nobody takes this post... or any post of mine... seriously. 

[Monkeypaws]

I'm gonna make the call - Darvish to Chicago Cubs.

[laloesch]

 

I'm gonna make the call - Darvish to Chicago Cubs.

 

Yep.  I just read on mlb rumors that he is asking for 6+ years and the Twins don't want to do that.  There's the excuse folks.  SO what's plan C?  Ohtani, Darvish.....strike one, strike two......Lynn anyone?  You wait, they are gonna enter spring training with basically the same rotation as last season minus Colon while saying "we tried really hard".      

 

 

Ps....Colon has been in contact with the FO

Edited December 20, 2017 by laloesch

[mike8791]

There is no report from any of the local or national writers that the Twins have sat down yet with Darvish ala the Astros and Cubs(and soon the Rangers).  Along with reports(see above) that Falvine is balking at a 6 year contract just adds further doubt to how sincere these feelers are emanating from Twins.  Darvish is #1 free agent pitcher on the market.  Six years is a given, IMO, if Twins are serious.  Competing with the big boys means doing just that.  Don't stand by the edge of the pool and watch the big fish be gobbled up.  I thought new leadership would mean just that - a sharp departure from the old ways.

 

It has been said well in other posts that Darvish is the big test for the new regime.  If they are unwilling to go all in, they are merely pretenders who are all talk and no action.   You can blame the Pohlad's penury or Falvine's unwillingnerss to take risks but in either case it doesn't bode well for the future if either of these two states of affair are still prevalent.

 

Hope I have to eat my words but the trend so far is worrisome.

[laloesch]

 

There is no report from any of the local or national writers that the Twins have sat down yet with Darvish ala the Astros and Cubs(and soon the Rangers).  Along with reports(see above) that Falvine is balking at a 6 year contract just adds further doubt to how sincere these feelers are emanating from Twins.  Darvish is #1 free agent pitcher on the market.  Six years is a given, IMO, if Twins are serious.  Competing with the big boys means doing just that.  Don't stand by the edge of the pool and watch the big fish be gobbled up.  I thought new leadership would mean just that - a sharp departure from the old ways.

 

It has been said well in other posts that Darvish is the big test for the new regime.  If they are unwilling to go all in, they are merely pretenders who are all talk and no action.   You can blame the Pohlad's penury or Falvine's unwillingnerss to take risks but in either case it doesn't bode well for the future if either of these two states of affair are still prevalent.

 

Hope I have to eat my words but the trend so far is worrisome.

 

As do I.  I fear they are all talk but at the end of the day it's backed up by nothing.  What's worse?  Talking the talking and making promising claims and not following through (Falvey & Levine) or not saying anything and not driving up expectations (Ryan regime).  You make your choice but i know which i prefer.

[Doomtints]

To be honest, none of the big free agent pitchers fit the profile of a Twins pitcher ... and the new FO has done nothing yet to show they are changing that profile. The new FO so far has been into giving old guys new shots to perform ... but Ryan was no stranger to his either....

[gheggs42]

So if the Twins manage to sign Cobb or Lynn and then get a big fish in FA next year, will the FO still be considered pretenders? If they don't feel right about a 6 year deal with Darvish I don't blame them. We will just have to wait and see..

[Mike Sixel]

So if the Twins manage to sign Cobb or Lynn and then get a big fish in FA next year, will the FO still be considered pretenders? If they don't feel right about a 6 year deal with Darvish I don't blame them. We will just have to wait and see..

What big fish will they get, if they don't want to pay market rates?

[Doomtints]

 

What big fish will they get, if they don't want to pay market rates?

 

Fernando Rodney.

 

[Squirrel]

 

Yep.  I just read on mlb rumors that he is asking for 6+ years and the Twins don't want to do that.  There's the excuse folks.  SO what's plan C?  Ohtani, Darvish.....strike one, strike two......Lynn anyone?  You wait, they are gonna enter spring training with basically the same rotation as last season minus Colon while saying "we tried really hard".      

 

 

Ps....Colon has been in contact with the FO

I didn't see that ... do you have a link? The part about the Twins balking at Darvish asking for 6 years. I'll admit I didn't look too hard, but I didn't see that bit mentioned.

[gheggs42]

 

What big fish will they get, if they don't want to pay market rates?

After looking at next years FA class it is basically a bunch of great position players and Kershaw. I thought there was a couple more "aces" but I stand corrected. 

[DaveW]

Offering the most money is the best way to get creative.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Offering the most money is the best way to get creative.

 

That's what I said up a few pages. Most money, lots of years. 

[DaveW]

 

That's what I said up a few pages. Most money, lots of years. 

While I'm not a fan of overpaying for pitchers, I personally would love to see the Twins bring in the first and only Persian major league baseball player.

[Squirrel]

 

While I'm not a fan of overpaying for pitchers, I personally would love to see the Twins bring in the first and only Persian major league baseball player.

Thanks for saying that ... the Persian part. 

[laloesch]

 

I didn't see that ... do you have a link? The part about the Twins balking at Darvish asking for 6 years. I'll admit I didn't look too hard, but I didn't see that bit mentioned.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/mlb-free-agent-rumors-mike-moustakas-adrian-gonzalez.html

[Squirrel]

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/mlb-free-agent-rumors-mike-moustakas-adrian-gonzalez.html

It says the Twins don't love the idea of that (and of course they don't, they are the Twins), but not that they are balking at an actual proposal of it, that they still maintain their interest. As I've said before, however, I don't think he'll come here, but that quote is not saying that there was any kind of discussion of years with Darvish and the Twins balked at it, nor does it say the Twins have outright said to Darvish they won't be agreeing to 6 years, which is what you seemed to imply. LaVelle said this in his column a couple days ago: "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent." So obviously, nothing concrete has been discussed for the Twins to balk at. Yet. That said, yes, he'll want 6 years, and money. I think that was a given going into the off-season even not knowing from him specifically. And why I've stated all along, despite the optimistic reports, I don't think he will be coming here. I don't think we'll offer him the most years and/or money, despite hoping we somehow will.

 

But it's not a done deal. Yet. If there is more concrete news of actual offers presented, by all means, bring it.

[DaveW]

If just think, if the Twins would have invested the $15 million in bitcoin instead of Park, then we could afford Darvish 30x over with the earnings!

[Doomtints]

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/mlb-free-agent-rumors-mike-moustakas-adrian-gonzalez.html

 

Minnesota was in on Drew Smyly until the end, per Wolfson, before Smyly chose to sign with the Cubs. Minnesota gave an identical two-year, $10MM guarantee to Michael Pineda instead.

 

BIZARRE.  

 

[laloesch]

 

It says the Twins don't love the idea of that (and of course they don't, they are the Twins), but not that they are balking at an actual proposal of it, that they still maintain their interest. As I've said before, however, I don't think he'll come here, but that quote is not saying that there was any kind of discussion of years with Darvish and the Twins balked at it, nor does it say the Twins have outright said to Darvish they won't be agreeing to 6 years, which is what you seemed to imply. LaVelle said this in his column a couple days ago: "How the Twins react when/if Darvish asks for six years and $140 million-$150 million — which would easily be a club record for a free agent — will be the test of their willingness to dive into the deep waters of free agency to add top talent." So obviously, nothing concrete has been discussed for the Twins to balk at. Yet. That said, yes, he'll want 6 years, and money. I think that was a given going into the off-season even not knowing from him specifically. And why I've stated all along, despite the optimistic reports, I don't think he will be coming here. I don't think we'll offer him the most years and/or money, despite hoping we somehow will.

 

But it's not a done deal. Yet. If there is more concrete news of actual offers presented, by all means, bring it.

 

With all due respect what are you talking about?  You repeatedly say BALK & BALKING which implies illegality or hesitation which i never said.  Are you sure your replying to the right post? 

 

What I said initially in that post was EXACTLY what mlbtraderumors stated in that they (Twins) don't like the idea of going six years on Darvish.  Again re-read what i posted.  The rest of it was sarcasm followed by an emoji.  And like or not they struck out on Ohtani whether people accept that or not because they stated it was a high priority to woo him to Minnesota and GUESS WHAT? IT DIDN'T WORK OUT! 

 

And despite similar happy talk it now appears possible that the could very well miss on Darvish given their stated reluctance to go six years + on Darvish which i'm sure the Astros, Cubs, Rangers will easily and willing throw at him, so i'm not sure what your angst against my initial post is. As far as i can tell there were no rules violations so i'm not sure what you are getting at.    

Edited December 20, 2017 by laloesch

[laloesch]

 

Minnesota was in on Drew Smyly until the end, per Wolfson, before Smyly chose to sign with the Cubs. Minnesota gave an identical two-year, $10MM guarantee to Michael Pineda instead.

 

BIZARRE.  

 

Yeah my thoughts exactly.  Drew Smyly     Doesn't Pineda fit that bill already?  Doesn't matter now as the Cubs signed him, but still pretty weird. 

[laloesch]

 

So if the Twins manage to sign Cobb or Lynn and then get a big fish in FA next year, will the FO still be considered pretenders? If they don't feel right about a 6 year deal with Darvish I don't blame them. We will just have to wait and see..

 

I think that would be a good offseason for them because Cobb and Lynn would be significant upgrades and while it wouldn't be quite as sexy as say signing Ohtani or Darvish it would certainly improve the Twins chances in 2018 and i'm all for it if they can't work it out with Darvish. 

 

But the reverse could also be true.  If they do nothing this offseason and by nothing sign no significant quality starting pitching for 2018 you WILL have to admit that they look like "pretenders " with all the talk of being dead serious about going after upper end starting pitching. 

 

That's why a lot of us have been saying "i'll believe it when i see it," because it's not like the Twins to do this (talk big about signing ace caliper top of the rotation starters and then follow through and actally do it).   Again, i would be thrilled if they did.