Article: Twins Select RHP Tyler Kinley In Rule 5 Draft (Lose Burdi to Phillies, Bard to Angels)

[Han Joelo]

I guess I'll let this play out, but not impressed.  Bard and or/Burdi with the option of optioning them, or Kinley, who has to clog a spot like Haley did?

 

On the other hand, Bard and Kinley both get their shots--good for them.  

[kab21]

 

Was just reading Tom's comment about Burdi being left off the roster for a reason and thought "someone left Santana off their roster for some reason also"   

 

Can someone explain the downside of keeping Burdi on the roster while we have 4 open spots?    Why don't they always have 40 filled and then take guys off as needed rather than take 4 guys off in anticipation of acquiring 4 different guys.   What is the value of having a spot available ahead of time?

It is a tremendous advantage if these borderline guys can pass through waivers.

If the Twins added Bard (for example) and later needed that 40 man spot for a signing or trade then they have to expose him to waivers and potentially lose him that way. A team claiming him off of waivers only has to keep him on the 40 man roster instead of keeping him on the 25 man roster like a Rule V draftee. Hopefully I got this mostly right. There is some terminology that gets mixed up like waivers, DFA and outright. 

 

If Bard sneaks through the Rule V then the Twins don't need to expose him to waivers since he was never on the 40. Huge advantage for the team.

 

The Twins leaving 4 spots open (2 filled now) indicates a high likelihood that the FO will be active this offseason.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Really hard to follow the timeline in the original post

[nicksaviking]

So Philadelphia traded Burdi to Pittsburgh for international cap space?

 

Why didn't the Twins do that last week? I don't see what would have prevented them from doing so.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Wow, color me underwhelmed.

 

Kinley's numbers look like absolute garbage above A+. I understand not protecting Bard, but losing Burdi and drafting what appears to be Jim Hoey 2.0 is just asinine. 

Well, his K #s certainly are NOT absolute garbage. He's consistently above 11 K/9 in the higher minor leagues (which is as good as Burdi has been the last few years).  They probably think they have a shot to fix the issues with his control. If so, he could be pretty good.  I'm going to be the contrarian here and say I'd rather try to fix this guy's control and see what his apparently excellent slider can do than have Burdi and his injury issues/risk.

[Steve Lein]

 

So Philadelphia traded Burdi to Pittsburgh for international cap space?

 

Why didn't the Twins do that last week? I don't see what would have prevented them from doing so.

 

I don't think he could be placed on the 40-man after such a move to protect him from Rule 5.

[Mike Sixel]

I just want a short leash this time. He's either worth a playoff team keeping around for sure, or cut him. He's nearly 27, it's not like he's young and has 2-3 years to figure it out.

 

Me?  I kind of hoped they'd add major league pitching this year......

[notoriousgod71]

So a guy who will be 27 on opening day and has been awful above Class A ball is your pick?

 

Maybe he was brought in for veteran presence.

[KGB]

Have to admit, I don't understand the Kinley selection rather than keeping one of our own. I know it's a flier, and he can easily be removed to make room for someone else, but it's a head scratcher to me.

Agree, plus now you have to keep Kinley on the roster or trade another asset to keep him. If you had put one of your pitcher on the roster, you could have moved him up or down to the majors without exposing him. Hope this selection is better than last years.

[jimmer]

So Bard, a first round pick in 2012 was left unprotected as was Stewart (another first round pick, 2013). Whatever happened with Michael, Harrison, Boyd, and Wimmer (some more of our first rounders since 2010)?

Edited December 14, 2017 by jimmer

[Tom Froemming]

 

Wow, color me underwhelmed.

 

Kinley's numbers look like absolute garbage above A+. I understand not protecting Bard, but losing Burdi and drafting what appears to be Jim Hoey 2.0 is just asinine. 

Double-A stats

Burdi: 3.68 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 10.6 K/9, 5.2 BB/9

Kinley: 4.38 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 10.1 K/9, 4.3 BB/9

 

Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

[Twinfan & Dad]

I dont think you can judge Falvey on these moves until the players actually are on the field and we see how they perform. Burdi wont see the field and Bard didnt throw in high leverage situations. Guess Falvey thought he could do better. We shall see!

Edited December 14, 2017 by Twinfan & Dad

[nicksaviking]

 

I don't think he could be placed on the 40-man after such a move to protect him from Rule 5.

 

I would think that he would have to be placed on the 40-man but just like any other 40-man additions after the rosters were set, he'd have to remain on it until spring training, which shouldn't be an issue considering that's the same position he is in now.

[chaderic20]

Any chance Burdi could become part of a trade for Cole?  Or is that not how the trade possibility part of Rule 5 works?

[nicksaviking]

 

Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

 

OK, you have me interested.

 

I don't like losing Burdi and Bard, and they had the roster spots for all three, but I'm happy to see an actual flame thrower in the Twins bullpen. Since he's a Rule V pick, the team is actually going to be forced to put him on the MLB roster instead of bidding their time with him in the minors until he proves to be too injured or too ineffective as has been tradition with this club.

[nicksaviking]

 

Is it possible that Burdi is coming back? The phillies select Burdi, trade him to Pittsburgh, with whom the Twins are allegedly having conversations about trading for COle. Is it possible that Pittsburgh picked up Burdi thinking he could be added to the package coming to the Twins so the Pirates can get the prospects they really want?  If that happens, do the Twins have to keep Burdi on the 25 man roster all year long? Sounds far fetched, I know, but kind of makes sense...

 

I'd think it would be the opposite. On the off chance the Twins DID end up making a deal for Cole, people will be pointing out that Pittsburgh obviously had interest in Burdi and the Twins wasted an asset that could have been used to make the deal happen.

[Steve Lein]

 

I would think that he would have to be placed on the 40-man but just like any other 40-man additions after the rosters were set, he'd have to remain on it until spring training, which shouldn't be an issue considering that's the same position he is in now.

 

I'm talking about if they traded him before the Rule 5 draft. 40-man rosters are locked weeks before in relation to that. That's why a trade happened now.

 

Any type of trade discussion like that would have had to be happening in early November.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Steve Lein

[Seth Stohs]

Berardino tweeted his YouTube video of Brad Steil discussing Tyler Kinley. 

 

 

 

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm talking about if they traded him before the Rule 5 draft. 40-man rosters are locked weeks before in relation to that. That's why a trade happened now.

 

Any type of trade discussion like that would have had to be happening in early November.

 

But plenty of players were traded and signed as free agents during that window and they are added to the acquiring team's 40 man, it's just that unlike the guys who were originally on the 40-man, the new guys being added can't be removed until spring.

[kab21]

Much ado about (nearly) nothing

I am not very enamored about Kinley but it is Rule V people. If Rule V works out then you get a Pressly type. That's alright...

[James]

 

So Philadelphia traded Burdi to Pittsburgh for international cap space?

 

Why didn't the Twins do that last week? I don't see what would have prevented them from doing so.

If the Twins would have traded him for international cap space, then he probably would been added to Pittsburgh's 40-man roster, and therefore gone forever.

 

As a rule V draftee, Pittsburgh still need to keep him on the 25 man roster for the required amount of time.  If they don't, they have to return him to the Twins.  So, at least there is a chance to get him back.

 

I'm not too mad about this yet.  Someone called Kinely a Jim Hoey 2.0, but are we sure that Burdi isn't also a Jim Hoey 2.0? 

[dougd]

His winter league numbers are pretty good.... 18IP, 29K, 4H, 8W.  He does like to hit people. Maybe he will be the Twins enforcer. Don't get a big lead or Tyler is coming in.

[jud6312]

 

Double-A stats

Burdi: 3.68 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 10.6 K/9, 5.2 BB/9

Kinley: 4.38 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 10.1 K/9, 4.3 BB/9

 

Burdi is definitely the better prospect, as Kinley is two years older, but it's worth noting that per Baseball America Kinley has been clocked at 100 mph and he was their choice for best slider in the Marlins system.

I'm more concerned with the 5.5 BB/9 last year in AA as a 26-year-old. Doesn't matter if you hit 100 or have the best slider in a dumpster fire of an organization if your BB rates increase every year.

[jud6312]

 

If the Twins would have traded him for international cap space, then he probably would been added to Pittsburgh's 40-man roster, and therefore gone forever.

 

As a rule V draftee, Pittsburgh still need to keep him on the 25 man roster for the required amount of time.  If they don't, they have to return him to the Twins.  So, at least there is a chance to get him back.

 

I'm not too mad about this yet.  Someone called Kinely a Jim Hoey 2.0, but are we sure that Burdi isn't also a Jim Hoey 2.0? 

That was me and Burdi very well could be. But a 26-year-old with straight gas and no idea of how to control it in his year 26 season is most definitely Hoey reincarnate. 

[Steve Lein]

 

But plenty of players were traded and signed as free agents during that window and they are added to the acquiring team's 40 man, it's just that unlike the guys who were originally on the 40-man, the new guys being added can't be removed until spring.

 

The thing on those trades is the 40-man status of players changing sides doesn't change to my knowledge (after the cutoff date for Rule 5). Free agents are added to 40-man because they sign MLB contracts.

 

 

 

 

[mikelink45]

In the swirl of praise for infrastructure work the FO is still way behind in showing me the things I am most interested in - the players on the field.  Signing Pineda did nothing for me, the loss of Burdi and Bard and the pick up of Kinley are quite confusing.  I hoped some of you with better stat magic at hand could show me why I should have a better opinion of this surge in activity.  

 

At this stage, if I understand our not so Hot Stove season - we have hired lots of new coaches and filled more cubicles in the office - but of course we have no metrics to judge these moves.  We have Lost Belisle, Burdi, and Bard and added Kinley - which is no where close to break even.  

 

Out starting staff got a man who will not pitch in 2018 giving us a wonderful rotation on the DL and minimum expectations for 2019.  

 

What other excitement am I missing?

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

In the swirl of praise for infrastructure work the FO is still way behind in showing me the things I am most interested in - the players on the field.  Signing Pineda did nothing for me, the loss of Burdi and Bard and the pick up of Kinley are quite confusing.  I hoped some of you with better stat magic at hand could show me why I should have a better opinion of this surge in activity.  

 

At this stage, if I understand our not so Hot Stove season - we have hired lots of new coaches and filled more cubicles in the office - but of course we have no metrics to judge these moves.  We have Lost Belisle, Burdi, and Bard and added Kinley - which is no where close to break even.  

 

Out starting staff got a man who will not pitch in 2018 giving us a wonderful rotation on the DL and minimum expectations for 2019.  

 

What other excitement am I missing?

Near as I can tell, you're all caught up.

[Vanimal46]

Much ado about (nearly) nothing

 

I am not very enamored about Kinley but it is Rule V people. If Rule V works out then you get a Pressly type. That's alright...

I think you can agree that they should be aiming higher than a Pressly type. I'm more annoyed they continue to explore this avenue (rule V) when the odds are so low drafting a player who will make a positive impact for the team.

[jmlease1]

Kohl Stewart didn't get picked? He was the one I thought a team would take a flyer on. Hate losing Burdi, guess the team is more comfortable floating a 40-man spot to a starter that likely won't pitch this season than a reliever? That's not unreasonable, I guess.

 

It's Rule V, it's sort of like buying a lottery ticket. A smart team with a high pick might get lucky but the odds aren't great.

[mikelink45]

 

Near as I can tell, you're all caught up.

Wonderful - I will continue to celebrate.