Article: 4 Stories To Watch At The Winter Meetings

[Major League Ready]

 

Uhh, what? Cole does nothing to position the Twins for a playoff run? He'd slot in at the top of the rotation, and probably start multiple games in a playoff series. I don't understand your argument.

 

Cole is a good SP but it would take him and Kershaw to give us a chance to win the division so we would be expending considerable assets trying to get a wildcard.  The wildcard used to mean you earned a playoff series.  Now it means you get a one game shot at getting a playoff series. 

 

In addition, the contending teams have better #1s so we would still be poorly positioned for a playoff run.  Plus, we would still need a major overhaul of the BP to be even close to most of the contender's bullpen.  So, expending good assets for 2 years of Cole makes no sense to me.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Apparently Pirates will trade Cole for the following: 

 

 

I wish we could substitute in Jorge for Jay . . . but, that's probably not realistic. Seriously have to consider doing this, if it is the offer.

If this is the offer and the Twins haven't said YES I would think it's because they are in talks for someone else. Archer?

[Nick Nelson]

 

On the possibility of the Twins signing Yu Darvish, every post or article I read mentions the "ties" that he has to Thad Levine from his days in Texas. But how much of a factor is that really? Just because Levine was in the front office at the same time, does that really signify some sort of strong relationship he had with Darvish?

I've heard that Levine was very involved with the process of getting him signed, so the familiarity/affinity may be heightened. Berardino wrote the following in his latest at PiPress: 

 

Levine earned Darvish’s trust during and after the recruiting process, when the Rangers committed $111 million to signing him at age 25. That included a $51.7 million posting fee to the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters, a step that won’t be necessary this time.

 

That bond between executive and player, Gimenez said, only grew stronger as Darvish made a “very seamless transition” to the majors, underwent Tommy John surgery and embarked on a lengthy rehabilitation process that saw him return to the mound in 2016. Levine was among Rangers’ front-office employees who took Japanese lessons and in general “offered a lot of different avenues for him to assimilate into our culture,” Gimenez said.

 

Also it strikes me as really cool that Gimenez is apparently stumping for the Twins despite being a free agent. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

If this is the offer and the Twins haven't said YES I would think it's because they are in talks for someone else. Archer?

 

Well, I'd start with the ask. Honestly, given the Twins 40 man situation, those players are going to add more pitching to the 40. I've got to think the Twins would hope to send someone like Slegers or Jorge over as a piece for no other reason than that they have way too much pitching on the roster.

 

As well, Archer is probably a better fit. He's younger, done well in the AL East, so more of a sure thing I guess, has more control. Yes, he costs more, but I have to think that it also means a package centering say Gordon, Gonsalves, Jay, and maybe a guy like Jorge. Perhaps not, who knows, but that frees up some 40 man space too so they can add some hitting if they want it.

[amjgt]

Cole is a good SP but it would take him and Kershaw to give us a chance to win the division so we would be expending considerable assets trying to get a wildcard. The wildcard used to mean you earned a playoff series. Now it means you get a one game shot at getting a playoff series.

 

In addition, the contending teams have better #1s so we would still be poorly positioned for a playoff run. Plus, we would still need a major overhaul of the BP to be even close to most of the contender's bullpen. So, expending good assets for 2 years of Cole makes no sense to me.

So.... blow it up then?

[Mr. Brooks]

I think Cole plus Lynn, and Santana not regressing would give us a legit shot at the division. (Assuming we add legit bp help.)

We wouldn't be the favorites, but we'd be close enough to win it 30% of the time, IMO.

[amjgt]

Cleveland's strength is its pitching. Pitching is historically more volitile year over year than hitting and more affected by injuries. They could have one pitcher get injured and one play like crap and all of a sudden they start to look pretty normal.

[jimmer]

 

Cleveland's strength is its pitching. Pitching is historically more volitile year over year than hitting and more affected by injuries. They could have one pitcher get injured and one play like crap and all of a sudden they start to look pretty normal.

Indians have had either the #1 or #2 rotation the AL five years running.  And overall in that time frame, they have been number one.

 

Conversely, a team like the Red Sox, often known for offense, has bounced all over the rankings on offense in the last five years. 7th in 2017, 1st in 2016, 8th in 2015, 10th in 2014, and 1st in 2013.

 

Or, our offense was 9th in runs scored the first half of last season, and 1st in the 2nd half.

[amjgt]

Perhaps I should have said "pitchers" instead of "pitching"

[Major League Ready]

 

So.... blow it up then?

There is absolutely no inference we should blow it up.  My position has been consistent.  Continue to develop and acquire young talent until we are actually seriously positioned to contend. (ie Houston)d)   We have a long ways to go to develop the starting rotation and bullpen of a contender.  Cole would help but our pitching staff as a whole would still have a long ways to go to be on par with teams that are serious world series contenders.

 

Our strength is our young core which still has plenty of question marks.  Santana, Dozier and Mauer could all be gone next year.  This team is by no stretch of anyone's imagination in a window of contention and we do not have the revenue to buy it.  Trading away long-term assets for players with 2 years of control is a great approach to mediocrity.  It only makes sense when you need a final piece and we are not close to that point. Cole and the assets we gave up for him will be long gone when we are there or could have been there had we not given away the assets that landed him.

 

Get Darvish and then trade for Archer if you are going to push in your chips. At least then you have 4 years to enjoy a better team and if the rest comes together we probably contend for a couple years. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Major Leauge Ready

[laloesch]

 

I mean, if you think there is a decent chance Gonsalves or Romero is going to be an Archer (or even Cole) level pitcher, then yeah, I agree.  But Gonsalves looks like a 4-5 type and while Romero has the upside of a front-line starter, the actual odds of that happening are probably less than 20%, plus he may not even be suited for a starting role. He's never pitched more than 125 innings, and the one time he pitched that many innings, he got hurt/warn down at the end of the year.  Archer gives you an ace for 4 years, and Cole a #2 for two years. With injury risk there is no sure thing, but those are much more of a guarantee of a #1-#2 pitcher than Gonsalves/Romero. That's why you might trade Romero or Gonsalves, plus something more (and for Archer, probably a lot more).  Also, let's say you trade one of Romero or Gonsalves for 2 years of Cole.  By 2020, when Cole is a FA, both the other of Gonsalves/Romero and Lewis Thorpe may be ready to join your rotation. And tons of money is opening up from the Santana, Mauer and Dozier contracts expiring next year, so you may also have enough to get another FA pitcher next year or in 2020, if you don't this year. Meanwhile, having Cole means you have a good starting pitching rotation the next two years, rather than a mediocre one. We don't want to wait until 2020 to be a contender, but without beefing up our rotation for 2018-19, we aren't realistically contenders. And I don't think you can count on Gonsalves or Romero to add what the rotation needs to  this year, and likely not even next year. Obviously it all depends on the total amount the Pirates (or the Rays) ask for, but I would not make trading Romero or Gonsalves off limits. I might even trade Lewis for Archer, if the deal was good enough (say, Archer for Lewis plus a 6-10 level prospect - which the Rays likely wouldn't do anyway).

 

People need to slow down on the Gonsalves train.  The guy might end up being good, but he's only pitched 22 innings in AAA so far.  

[Brandon]

If we signed Darvish, we could afford to trade top pitching prospects for Archer. So a package of Gonsalves, Jay, Gordon, and Kohl and maybe someone else could be enticing.

 

With a rotation of Darvish, Archer, Santana, Berrios and Gibson/ May / Mejia, plus still have Littell, Sledgers, Jorge, and Romero and Thorpe still on the farm.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Brandon

[Mike Sixel]

 

If we signed Darvish, we could afford to trade top pitching prospects for Archer. So a package of Gonsalves, Jay, Gordon, and Kohl and maybe someone else could be enticing.

 

Or, the Rays could just take Kohl Stewart in the upcoming draft for free....

 

I'd think Archer would cost two of their top pitching prospects, whatever hitter the Rays wanted, and one more mid tier player. Me? No way Jay is on that list if I'm the Rays. I take Gonsalves, the AA pitcher they most want, Lewis, and Kiriloff. Archer is practically signed for free, compared to what a pitcher of his quality costs.

[Mr. Brooks]

Yeah I think any offer for Archer that doesn't start with Lewis gets a "thanks, but no thanks. "