Article: Twins Acquire Two Prospects For International Bonus Money

[diehardtwinsfan]

none of these guys hit very well, and one isn't even known for his defense. I'm a bit underwhelmed here. I'd have rather blown the entire 3.2 on a much better prospect.

[Platoon]

I had sort of anticipated them blowing the whole lot of the pool money on a single pitching prospect, the best they could find. Maybe they tried that and could not find a suitable value? It just seems to me that the money had the most return in that manner, and admittedly the most risk. This isn't intended as a criticism, simply an uneducated observation.

[Riverbrian]

 

How about the Padres?  Don't they have a reliever or two the Twins could maybe trade the rest of their international money for?

 

The Padres are capped at $300,000 because they over spent last year. 

 

The Dodgers, Giants and Cubs have the same penalty. 

 

They can't add money. Oops!

 

If Otani signs with any of those 4 teams... It will be pretty clear that Money was absolutely not a factor. 

 

 

 

Only the Rangers, Mariners and Angels can get in this Otani Bonus Arms Race. 

 

 

 

I find it interesting that the American League clubs have the bonus money and the DH. 

 

The National League teams don't have the DH or bonus money. 

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

Why all the kindness for the Angels and the Mariners. We got them between the rock and the hard place. They BOTH need international bonus money in the hope of signing Ohtani and the Twins, now out of that contention, have international money to burn. Why didn't we go for the throat and put the squeeze on both of them for a better return? Seems like we could have done much better. I would like to see the ppitch package prepared by the Twins for Ohtani - Could it have been better? Can we sue him for Scandahoovian Discrimination against the Twins?

 

It's hard to even guess what the market would pay. 

 

The Twins were not the only team with extra IBP money left.

 

If they squeeze too hard... The Yankees can always pick up the phone and tell the Mariners and Angels that they have even more money available than the Twins do. 

 

The Twins front office jumped right into it and made a deal with two of the three teams that can add bonus money for Otani. 

 

I tip my cap to them. 

 

 

 

 

[bird]

 

See I would have them flipped. Catcher guy interests me but I'm not interested in an outfielder with zero power and can't field. Can't possibly be ahead of Rooker. Rooker was mashing.

 

I'm only going on the video scouting report from MLB.com, which described Pearson as having 20/20 power/speed potential, described him as a strong kid with a body that could develop, and said his only fielding weakness, throwing, should improve coming off surgery on said arm. And on a third party reference from someone on Twinkietown who said MLB.com ranked Pearson higher than any Twins OF prospect other than Kiriloff. So you could be right, but I'm going to choose to be happy that Pearson is even regarded perhaps as highly as Badoo, Rooker, and Wade. Sounds like a pretty good use of IFA money to me.

 

I didn't find any glowing reports on Banuelos's minor league career, but maybe I missed them. The one thing I read was a pre-draft article that categorized him more as a sleeper while over a dozen other catching prospects were showcased in the article.

Edited December 7, 2017 by birdwatcher

[drjim]

I'm only going on the video scouting report from MLB.com, which described Pearson as having 20/20 power/speed potential, described him as a strong kid with a body that could develop, and said his only fielding weakness, throwing, should improve coming off surgery on said arm. And on a third party reference from someone on Twinkietown who said MLB.com ranked Pearson higher than any Twins OF prospect other than Kiriloff. So you could be right, but I'm going to choose to be happy that Pearson is even regarded perhaps as highly as Badoo, Rooker, and Wade. Sounds like a pretty good use of IFA money to me.

 

I didn't find any glowing reports on Banuelos's minor league career, but maybe I missed them. The one thing I read was a pre-draft article that categorized him more as a sleeper while over a dozen other catching prospects were showcased in the article.

It's important to note the mlb rankings are not updates for year end yet. Both of the prospects acquired have dropped.

 

They are probably as good as 8 or 9 of the 12 Braves prospects set free, but there is another Cuban prospect available better than all of them. Twins were good to grab some prospects but they are leaving some talent out there.

[IndianaTwin]

 

.. don't get selected for the swimsuit portion, but have what Mike Sciosia in lingerie needs:  ...

 

...No one knows what Otani wants, but Twins know what teams pursuing Otani want.

 

 

Ugh. Sciosia in lingerie is not the image I need stuck in my mind at 8:30 in the morning. Or 8:30 in the evening, for that matter. Or ever.

 

I do like your summary statement, however. 

[Blake]

 

It's hard to even guess what the market would pay. 

 

The Twins were not the only team with extra IBP money left.

 

If they squeeze too hard... The Yankees can always pick up the phone and tell the Mariners and Angels that they have even more money available than the Twins do. 

 

The Twins front office jumped right into it and made a deal with two of the three teams that can add bonus money for Otani. 

 

I tip my cap to them. 

Yes, I like this because, to me, this signals different thinking on the part of the FO. 

[John Bonnes]

I kind of like that these guys are both 2017 draft picks for two reasons.

 

1) To build a sustained period of success, the Twins are going to need another group of prospects to take the places of this group once they graduate to free agency. We got to experience that in the '00s years, when Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Jones, etc were replace by Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel. With some high end talent banging around in the lower minors right now, like Royce Lewis, there's hope that the Twins could see a similar handoff from this group to another group. This adds to that chance.

 

2) So far, this front office looks pretty astute at gauging draft prospects (knock, knock). Royce Lewis looks tremendous. Rooker is obviously pretty exciting. It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

[Tom Froemming]

 

The only question I have is whether they used it to acquire the right player(s). The Angels just signed Kevin Maitan for $2.2MM of international bonus money after his contract with the Braves was voided due to the international signing scandal. He was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Who knows if we could have signed him if we threw more $ at him or if we tried, but that would appear on its face to be a better usage of that money than the two we got.

I believe given the unusual circumstances teams were allowed to use their 2018 international pools to sign the Braves guys if they wanted, so the Twins probably could've still afforded him even while doing these moves. But if I was Maitan I don't think I'd want to come here unless the Twins were able to overpay, given the glut of shortstops in the system. Also, I've heard people suggest Maitan will drop quite a bit in the 2018 preseason rankings from where he was on those 2017 midseason lists.

[gunnarthor]

 

I kind of like that these guys are both 2017 draft picks for two reasons.

 

1) To build a sustained period of success, the Twins are going to need another group of prospects to take the places of this group once they graduate to free agency. We got to experience that in the '00s years, when Mientkiewicz, Koskie, Jones, etc were replace by Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel. With some high end talent banging around in the lower minors right now, like Royce Lewis, there's hope that the Twins could see a similar handoff from this group to another group. This adds to that chance.

 

2) So far, this front office looks pretty astute at gauging draft prospects (knock, knock). Royce Lewis looks tremendous. Rooker is obviously pretty exciting. It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

I agree with #1 - if the new FO can keep the window of opportunity open it'll be because they were able to bring up another wave of prospects like Ryan was able to do.

 

But #2 - we're too far away from having an idea on that. Yes the draft looks good but these kids have been playing ball for 3 months. Way too early to determine if they drafted well.

[twinssouth]

I thought you had to wait a year from the time they were drafted before you can trade a prospect. Guess I was wrong

[gunnarthor]

 

I thought you had to wait a year from the time they were drafted before you can trade a prospect. Guess I was wrong

They changed it to after the world series.

[Doomtints]

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

[AZTwin]

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

We’re not paying $1M. We’re paying the opportunity of spending $1M. Falvine likely didn’t see better options remaining. Still have $1M

[gunnarthor]

 

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

Honestly, I'm not sure but I think it's roughly fair. 1m on the IBP isn't all that much - most elite players sign for more and you can go the quantity route and nab some guys for less - so I think what we got in return - avg ML regular guys as ceilings - is decent. Also, we're not paying money (Pohlad = cheap) but rather giving our ability to spend money to the other teams. 

 

At the end of the day, I think this was a defensible move and far better than not doing anything (which is what I thought they'd do) but it's also not evidence that Levine is playing three dimensional chess while Ryan would be playing checkers. 

[Steve Lein]

 

The Angels just signed Kevin Maitan for $2.2MM of international bonus money after his contract with the Braves was voided due to the international signing scandal. He was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball. Who knows if we could have signed him if we threw more $ at him or if we tried, but that would appear on its face to be a better usage of that money than the two we got. Time will tell though and Falvine’s moves thus far in acquiring young talent have been impressive (e.g., 2017 Draft + 2017 Trades).

 

If you ask me, the Angels overpaid for Maitan after all this.

 

Maitan was not anything close to good this year in his first season and won't be a top 50, let alone top 100 guy anymore.

 

He was #77 on Baseball America, #32 on MLB.com, and #100 on Baseball Prospectus going into 2017.

[slash129]

 

 It stands to reason these were guys that they liked but missed out on and have continued to target. 

 

This.   As soon as I saw they were guys from the last draft, I figured they had been on the acquire radar of the current FO.   Solid move using opportunity cost that is about to expire to add apparent desired depth to the system.

[Dman]

 

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

I think it depends on how you look at it. The Angels gave Pearson a one million dollar bonus to sign and the Twins gave them one million to spend on the international market.  Seems like a pretty straight up trade there to me.  Also I think most teams would probably give up one million to get get an extra third round pick.   And yet by giving up that money it means they cannot spend it on an international player that might have better potential than Pearson.  Or if they didn't manage to spend all the money then they get nothing.

 

The catcher for me is a bit of head scratcher.  He was a 5th round draft choice that signed for $300,000.  His floor seems to be great defensive catcher.  He has a good eye at the plate but not a lot of power potential.  He was a finalist for the Bench award but to me it seems like an over pay for us.  I don't know that he will even be in our top 30 so I don't know what drove them to make that trade.  I am no scout so I assume they see greater potential there than I do.

 

Both players have good potential and the Twins essentially got two extra 2017 draft picks for free, depending on how you look at it.  Depth is a good thing so IMO they came out very good to OK with these deals.  

[terrydactyls]

 

At the end of the day, I think this was a defensible move and far better than not doing anything (which is what I thought they'd do) but it's also not evidence that Levine is playing three dimensional chess while Ryan would be playing checkers.

 

I would venture to say that your chess/checkers opinion would be very different if the prospects were ranked a lot higher. However, I'm also pretty confident in guessing that the Twins asked for more and were turned down. To me, good move and I hope in three years it looks like it looks like great moves.

[sorney]

Regardless of how the prospects turn out, this is EXACTLY what you should do if you have no real plans to spend that pool money this year.  Nice move by the new regime

[ThejacKmp]

 

We seem happy that the Twins did something. But are these good values? Are each of these players worth $1M?

 

It's not really $2 million, the Twins didn't send over the money. They traded the ability to spend $2 million in the international marketplace. So it comes down to an opportunity cost thing - are these two players (plus the saved $2 million) better than the players the Twins could have gotten in the international market?

I'd argue that once Maitan was gone, the Twins probably used this money as well as it can be. Especially since they still have $1.2 million they can use on Marte or another prospect. You could argue they should have gone after Maitan two weeks ago but that would have meant giving up their one advantage in the Ohtani sweepstakes, money. I'm glad the front office took a swing at Ohtani rather than the safe play of Maitan, even if it means we are where we are now and missed out on both. Ohtani could have changed the trajectory of the franchise, you have to swing for the fences sometimes.

[Dance with Disco Dan]

 

MLB.com ranks Pearson 22 in the Twins system. The mariners prospect is not listed in our top 30

 

I am glad that MLB.com thinks well of Pearson but I will not understand (or fully credit) their prospect list until they learn about Akil Baddoo. He played great in the Appy League (.357/.478/.579) and is two months younger than Pearson who struggled in Rookie ball. Normally, I'd chalk it up to MLB.com still catching up on a blossoming, late-round prospect but Baddoo was a second-round pick (74th overall). 

 

 As for the trade, I think this is a good use of the remaining pool funds particularly since some of the premium, available Braves prospects have signed elsewhere. I was really hoping that they'd get at least one but didn't immediately realize that teams were allowed to dip into next year's pool to sign those guys reducing the Twins' purchasing power with $3m+ left in this year's pool. 

 

Catching depth and a young player reputed to have plus speed and good bat speed are always welcome additions to the farm system.

[Doomtints]

 

We’re not paying $1M. We’re paying the opportunity of spending $1M. Falvine likely didn’t see better options remaining. Still have $1M

 

No "we" don't. The Twins lost this money.

So, are these players collectively worth $2M?

[Doomtints]

So it comes down to an opportunity cost thing - are these two players (plus the saved $2 million) better than the players the Twins could have gotten in the international market?

Not sure what your point is because you're arguing something that has nothing to do with what I asked. Did the Twins get a good deal? Were these players worth the lost $2M in "opportunity cost" (or whatever term you or anyone else choose to use)? Or should the Twins have used the money to pick up some international free agents? Did the new front office just help other teams more than what the Twins got in return?

[Mike Sixel]

Underwhelming, but not sure what else they could do if they didn't like the braves players. Once they took the money away from a poor person, I wondered what their plans were for it

[drjim]

Not sure what your point is because you're arguing something that has nothing to do with what I asked. Did the Twins get a good deal? Were these players worth the lost $2M in "opportunity cost" (or whatever term you or anyone else choose to use)? Or should the Twins have used the money to pick up some international free agents? Did the new front office just help other teams more than what the Twins got in return?

Considering the other options, once the top 2-3 Braves prospects came off the board, it was probably worth it.

[drjim]

 

I am glad that MLB.com thinks well of Pearson but I will not understand (or fully credit) their prospect list until they learn about Akil Baddoo. He played great in the Appy League (.357/.478/.579) and is two months younger than Pearson who struggled in Rookie ball. Normally, I'd chalk it up to MLB.com still catching up on a blossoming, late-round prospect but Baddoo was a second-round pick (74th overall). 

 

 As for the trade, I think this is a good use of the remaining pool funds particularly since some of the premium, available Braves prospects have signed elsewhere. I was really hoping that they'd get at least one but didn't immediately realize that teams were allowed to dip into next year's pool to sign those guys reducing the Twins' purchasing power with $3m+ left in this year's pool. 

 

Catching depth and a young player reputed to have plus speed and good bat speed are always welcome additions to the farm system.

 

Keep in mind these rankings have not been updated since last offseason. They "update" the rankings by slotting players in as drafted/acquired, but they don't re-rank them until late January. Baddoo will be much higher this year.

[twinssouth]

They changed it to after the world series.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update

[IndianaTwin]

To recap...

• The batch of prospects freed up from Atlanta was "only" 12 guys.
• Based on the apparent weakness of the Angels minor league system, they may not be the best judge of talent. If they spent $2.2 million on Maitan, he may not be worth that.
• If the "best" prospect is not worth $2.2 million and there were only 12 new guys for 30 teams to go after, it seems reasonable to think that the Twins were going to have a hard time spending the entire $3+ million within the needed timeframe

Instead, the Twins got...

• A "free" 3rd rounder that likely fell (according to one report, apparently, from as high as the low 1st round)
• A "free" 5th rounder at a position that doesn't have much depth
• And still have a bit of international money to spend on someone from the batch of Braves prospects, if desired. Or to trade to one of the other teams in the Ohtani derby. 

That sounds like a win to me. The only question is whether they might have gotten even more from the Angels or Mariners, but I'm glad to trust the Falvine wisdom on this. I doubt they only made two calls on this.