Article: Twins Add Three Players To 40 Man Roster

[diehardtwinsfan]

yeah, they are going to be adding some talent this offseason.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I also think the Twins chose the correct route to gamble with Diaz. I find it hard to believe that a team could keep him rostered all year with 12-13 man pitching staffs.

I'm fascinated by the Diaz decision. I get it, and I like the moxie of it, but it's a dangerous move.

 

On the other hand, I can't imagine there's a team out there so willing to tank the season that they'll use a 25-man spot on a guy with no positional flexibility and hasn't hit above A ball.

 

I suspect someone will try to pick him up but I don't think he'll make it an entire season on a 25-man roster.

[clone52]

There is no chance Diaz even gets picked, let along stick on a roster for the entire season.  Corner Infielders are rare picks in the Rule 5 draft and the few that do get picked have at least a full season of AA under their belt.  Diaz getting picked would be unprecedented.

 

As for the unprotected relievers, the front office must think they are all basically interchangeable.  You're not going to lose more than 1 or 2 of them at most, so you still have some leftover.

 

Stewart, I'm guessing the front office just doesn't see much projection from.

[big dog]

I'm still amazed that Stuart Turner stuck with the Reds all season, with a short DL stint.  82 at-bats...not much of a season.  The Reds didn't have much to lose, I guess.

[Tom Froemming]

 

I'm still amazed that Stuart Turner stuck with the Reds all season, with a short DL stint.  82 at-bats...not much of a season.  The Reds didn't have much to lose, I guess.

That was nuts. I thought for sure he was going to come back to us once Mesoraco got healthy. The crazy thing is Cincy already has maybe the best defensive catcher in baseball in Tucker Barnhart signed through 2022, so why did they basically move mountains to keep Turner? Very strange. Entirely possible somebody does that with Diaz.

[Seth Stohs]

 

But, that's the point, right.  If contending teams don't want those guys, why do Twins? 

 

We are contenders, aren't we?

 

At some point, our yardstick has got to be winning a playoff series, and the ones who don't measure up have to be shipped out, for their good as well as the Twins.

 

That is probably true of the pitchers who are closer, maybe... but San Diego took three really young guys last year. They could take a shot with a guy like Diaz or even Stewart.

[SDTwinsFan]

It’s an interesting move keeping several “big” names off the 40 man. I’m discouraged about Reed, because I expect him to be selected and stick.

 

Diaz and Stewart are more of a question mark. I doubt Diaz sticks, but who knows. As Big Dog and Tom just pointed out, we lost Turner and he basically didn’t really play all year on the Reds.

 

Stewart reminds me somewhat of my feelings on Alex Meyer when he was traded: it just seems like the Twins aren’t able to make it click. If that’s the case, I hope he succeeds elsewhere. It might make the Twins “look bad” but maybe it was never going to happen in Minnesota. I prefer a talented guy to get it figured out even it’s on another team (except the Yankees or White Sox—screw those guys).

[Danchat]

 

I'm fascinated by the Diaz decision. I get it, and I like the moxie of it, but it's a dangerous move.

 

On the other hand, I can't imagine there's a team out there so willing to tank the season that they'll use a 25-man spot on a guy with no positional flexibility and hasn't hit above A ball.

 

I suspect someone will try to pick him up but I don't think he'll make it an entire season on a 25-man roster.

I find it fascinating how different some people's opinions on Diaz are. Some are absolutely sure that he'll get claimed and stashed because he's such a good prospect and many believe that nobody will want to keep a single A 1B who didn't even hit that well in 2017 on the roster.

[jorgenswest]

The challenge with Diaz is that he doesn’t have any skill close to major league ready. Select an up the middle player and they can contribute with the glove and often positional flexibility. Guys who play middle infield or centerfield often can be used as pinch runners. Pitchers can be given low leverage innings. What do you do with Diaz on the bench? He would likely be the worst pinch hit, running and glove option on the bench.

[Thrylos]

 

I think Stewart is a lock to be drafted by some team. He's still young, throws mid 90s and it's easier to hide a pitcher in the pen all year. Why wouldn't a rebuilding team like the Padres or Phillies try that and at least see what he's got in ST? Plus those teams probably still have detailed write ups from his draft year so they'll be intrigued to see if they can 'fix' him. 

 

Interesting, it looks like other top 15 picks from the 2013 draft that weren't protected including Mark Appel (DFA'd), Phil Bickford, Trey Ball and DJ Peterson. I'm not sure what happened with Ball. I thought he'd be ok.

 

The Phillies and the Padres do not belong in the same sentence.  The Phillies are not a small market team and they are on the down side of the curve in a rapid rebuild.  Matter of fact, they are the team that left Appel go who a. throws harder than Stewart b. is equally wild. and c. has pitched at a higher level.

 

They will have about $50-75M to spend next off-season at the first rate FAs

 

Can someone hide Stewart in their pen for a whole year?  If I where them, I'd rather hide Reed or Burdi to tell you the truth...

Edited November 22, 2017 by Thrylos

[Thrylos]

 

I think Burdi will probably be selected by another org and stashed on the DL.

 

There is a bit of a small print that requires someone to spend a full 90 days on the active roster as a Rule 5 pick.  So no stashing on the DL the full season.  He has to be on the majors' bench for 3 months.

[kab21]

 

The challenge with Diaz is that he doesn’t have any skill close to major league ready. Select an up the middle player and they can contribute with the glove and often positional flexibility. Guys who play middle infield or centerfield often can be used as pinch runners. Pitchers can be given low leverage innings. What do you do with Diaz on the bench? He would likely be the worst pinch hit, running and glove option on the bench.

But carrying a 3rd catcher for most of the season kills any of the positional flexibility that you speak of.

 

There is a bit of a small print that requires someone to spend a full 90 days on the active roster as a Rule 5 pick.  So no stashing on the DL the full season.  He has to be on the majors' bench for 3 months.

But they can stash him on the DL for 2018 and then let him rehab over the winter before bringing him up to the majors in 2019. He doesn't have to be on the bench in 2018 and he will likely be ready again in 2019.

 

But does a team (the Twins or another team) use up an offseason 40 man roster spot for two offseasons? This is why I don't disagree with the Twins decision to leave him unprotected. I wouldn't be surprised if another team did this.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

But does a team (the Twins or another team) use up an offseason 40 man roster spot for two offseasons? This is why I don't disagree with the Twins decision to leave him unprotected. I wouldn't be surprised if another team did this.

 

The team that will sign Michael Pineda will do exactly that...

 

Burdi has to be on the active roster for 90 days in 2018, otherwise he goes back to the Twins.  Cannot be stashed away as a rule 5 draft pick.  Has to be on the 25 man roster and not on the DL for at least 3 months. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Thrylos

[kab21]

 

The team that will sign Michael Pineda will do exactly that...

 

Burdi has to be on the active roster for 90 days in 2018, otherwise he goes back to the Twins.  Cannot be stashed away as a rule 5 draft pick.  Has to be on the 25 man roster and not on the DL for at least 3 months. 

Did this rule change? It is used to carry over until the next season.

If that is the case then he probably won't be selected because he didn't have TJ until May last season.

[drjim]

The team that will sign Michael Pineda will do exactly that...

 

Burdi has to be on the active roster for 90 days in 2018, otherwise he goes back to the Twins. Cannot be stashed away as a rule 5 draft pick. Has to be on the 25 man roster and not on the DL for at least 3 months.

He remains a rule 5 if he doesn't hit 90 days in 2018. Thus the need for a 40 man spot next offseason and a 25 man spot for 2019 too.

 

That's a long carry for a guy who has never been healthy.

[jorgenswest]

But carrying a 3rd catcher for most of the season kills any of the positional flexibility that you speak of.

 

.

Except a team might pinch hit for their catcher which makes that third catcher useful. I don’t know if a team will be pinch hitting for their first baseman. The Padres pinch hit for their catchers at least 32 times last year. There will be more but I don’t know how to count the times that they pinch hit for the catcher and then did not go out in the field again. I can’t imagine a team pinch hitting at 1B that many times. Even if they did, there are many players on the team that could play 1B. Diaz brings no worthwhile major league skills to the table. Being able to play 1B isn’t helpful.

[sploorp]

 

250k... not a ton. Though I'd be fine if the Twins could send one of the marginal guys away for enough to put them in front on the Otani cash side of the sweepstakes.

I would say the team that signs Darvish is the one with the inside track on Otani regardless of what they have to spend in international money.

[Mike Sixel]

I would say the team that signs Darvish is the one with the inside track on Otani regardless of what they have to spend in international money.

Based on what?

[kab21]

 

Except a team might pinch hit for their catcher which makes that third catcher useful. I don’t know if a team will be pinch hitting for their first baseman. The Padres pinch hit for their catchers at least 32 times last year. There will be more but I don’t know how to count the times that they pinch hit for the catcher and then did not go out in the field again. I can’t imagine a team pinch hitting at 1B that many times. Even if they did, there are many players on the team that could play 1B. Diaz brings no worthwhile major league skills to the table. Being able to play 1B isn’t helpful.

This makes no sense. Are you saying that they are pinch hitting for their catcher twice in one game?

Pinch hit for a catcher and then replace him with your backup catcher. The 3rd catcher remains unused on the bench with only a utility infielder.

 

Carrying 3 catchers is an awful idea unless you are DH'ing one of them often.

[Deduno Abides]

What happened with Turner seems unique to that situation and not very relevant to Diaz. With Turner, a poorly run team with a weak minor league system, bad pitching and a starting catcher coming off two years of big injuries used a roster spot on a great defensive catcher. Now, you can generalize that to say that it shows that anything can happen, which is true, but that doesn’t mean that a team will keep a hitter without defensive or base running value, knowing he will lose a year of development, just so it can send him to A+ or AA the following year. That hasn’t happened since the bonus baby days and probably would be detrimental to the player and the team. Someone may select Diaz to take a look at him, but he would have to be incredible during spring training to stick.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I find it fascinating how different some people's opinions on Diaz are. Some are absolutely sure that he'll get claimed and stashed because he's such a good prospect and many believe that nobody will want to keep a single A 1B who didn't even hit that well in 2017 on the roster.

Both can be true. He can be a good prospect but also offer so little defensively and has such little experience that no team can afford to keep him on a roster for 162 games.

 

With that said, Diaz isn't a great prospect but he is an intriguing one; a guy that needs to cook a little longer to see how he grows into being a hitter. IIRC, the guy just turned 21 a few weeks ago.

[jorgenswest]

This makes no sense. Are you saying that they are pinch hitting for their catcher twice in one game?

Pinch hit for a catcher and then replace him with your backup catcher. The 3rd catcher remains unused on the bench with only a utility infielder.

 

Carrying 3 catchers is an awful idea unless you are DH'ing one of them often.

Sigh...

 

How about Maddon on the flexibility of a third catcher?

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-cubs/why-maddon-cubs-opted-keep-three-catchers-after-miguel-monteros-return

 

Or maybe Girardi...

 

http://web.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20140821&content_id=90729754&vkey=news_milb

 

Astros appreciated the flexibility of a third catcher in the playoffs

 

https://climbingtalshill.com/2017/09/30/astros-most-likely-to-carry-three-catchers-in-the-playoffs/

 

We disagree on whether a third catcher adds flexibility. Coming back with “This makes no sense” as if no one in their right mind would consider it is just annoying.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Sigh...

How about Maddon on the flexibility of a third catcher?

http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-cubs/why-maddon-cubs-opted-keep-three-catchers-after-miguel-monteros-return

Or maybe Girardi...

http://web.yesnetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20140821&content_id=90729754&vkey=news_milb

Astros appreciated the flexibility of a third catcher in the playoffs

https://climbingtalshill.com/2017/09/30/astros-most-likely-to-carry-three-catchers-in-the-playoffs/

We disagree on whether a third catcher adds flexibility. Coming back with “This makes no sense” as if no one in their right mind would consider it is just annoying.

Well, you have a few different situations there:

 

1. Maddon coaches in the NL, which doesn't have a DH occupying a roster spot. It makes more sense to use a third catcher in that league, particularly if you have a catcher (or two) who can hit (even in a split situation). Pinch-hitting is such a big thing in the National League game and your best catcher (who probably isn't inept with the stick) sits 33% of the time, leaving him open for pinch-hitting duties in the right situation. But you don't want to pinch-hit your primary catcher (or backup catcher) on a roster with two catchers.

 

2. Girardi is talking about a rule change to allow him to carry a third catcher on the (kinda sorta inactive) roster. That's quite a bit different, isn't it?

 

3. The postseason is an entirely different beast, one that plays more by NL rules than AL rules in that "every position can be replaced at any moment if the need is there". When you only need to carry nine pitchers on the roster, carrying a third catcher is a pretty easy decision because if it's the eighth inning and your catcher is due up with a runner on base, you're sure as hell gonna pinch-hit for that dude unless he's Joe Mauer or someone of his ilk.

[gunnarthor]

Didn't the Padres carry four catchers for a while last season? I'm positive they did.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Didn't the Padres carry four catchers for a while last season? I'm positive they did.

You lost me in relevant roster conversation at "Padres".

 

But in all seriousness, that extra non-DH roster spot allows NL teams to have a flexibility that AL teams simply cannot afford over the course of a season.

[PseudoSABR]

The idea of a third catcher is to safeguard against an injury should you pinch hit.  You can't throw any position player behind the plate like you can at first base or in the outfield. 

[jorgenswest]

The point is that a third catcher can add flexibility on the bench that you don’t get with a first baseman. Teams value that flexibility more in the playoffs but it can add value.

 

I went back to 2000 to find a 1B. Gibbons stuck with Baltimore. He was older and had great OPS in AA the previous year. His bat was ready to be a platoon player. He wasn’t stashed. He played. I can’t find anyone similar to Diaz. Why aren’t there comps to Diaz of a low A rule 5 1B stashed by a team for a season? Catchers get stashed frequently. I don’t think it is the same.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The point is that a third catcher can add flexibility on the bench that you don’t get with a first baseman. Teams value that flexibility more in the playoffs but it can add value.

I went back to 2000 to find a 1B. Gibbons stuck with Baltimore. He was older and had great OPS in AA the previous year. His bat was ready to be a platoon player. He wasn’t stashed. He played. I can’t find anyone similar to Diaz. Why aren’t there comps to Diaz of a low A rule 5 1B stashed by a team for a season? Catchers get stashed frequently. I don’t think it is the same.

I don't entirely disagree with your point but there are a few differences:

 

1. Catchers tend to exist at a later age. There are few good catchers that have 40-man concerns at age 21 and those that do have concerns tend to get protected because of the positional scarcity (if they're not a good catcher, they can almost be put into the 1B category).

 

2. Diaz isn't going to be drafted because he'll help the team in 2018, he'll be drafted because some team out there might think he can help in 2020. If some team thinks they can stomach a useless roster spot for 162 games, Diaz isn't a bad route to go.

[kab21]

 

The point is that a third catcher can add flexibility on the bench that you don’t get with a first baseman. Teams value that flexibility more in the playoffs but it can add value.

I went back to 2000 to find a 1B. Gibbons stuck with Baltimore. He was older and had great OPS in AA the previous year. His bat was ready to be a platoon player. He wasn’t stashed. He played. I can’t find anyone similar to Diaz. Why aren’t there comps to Diaz of a low A rule 5 1B stashed by a team for a season? Catchers get stashed frequently. I don’t think it is the same.

The point is that it is EXTREMELY rare that backup catchers get injured during the 1-2 innings that they play. Carrying a 3rd catcher for that rare circumstance that might not happen all season hurts the flexibility of a bench regardless if it is NL or AL.

 

Of course, a 3rd catcher is still (very slightly) more valuable than Diaz because I don't expect him to hit much better in the majors than Turner did last year. 

 

Quoting managers regarding the importance of a 3rd catcher is also meaningless. They do many things that we disagree with. For example - sacrifice bunts. 3rd catchers is no different.

[howieramone2]

 

Thorpe is the surprise in this group.  Likely the Twins know better than me about Burdi's health (and it was that botched trade to ATL for health reasons as well,) but, I'd have him ahead of Thorpe at this point.

 

What I don't get is that Boshers (and Slegers to a lesser degree) have 40-man spots at this point.

 

I don't think that anyone will pick up Stewart and have him stick to the majors for a full season.  He was horrible last season.

 

Ryan Eades might surprise some people.  I think that as a reliever has a future in the majors.

 

A couple of more thoughts:

 

a. I suspect that there will be trades and some of these players will be traded

b. how in heaven does Deron Johnson still has a job with the Twins with so many high round picks in his tenure bombing? 

We haven't had a bad draft since 2011.