2018 HOF ballot

[gunnarthor]

https://baseballhall.org/hof/2018-bbwaa-ballot

 

The important new names are Andruw Jones, Chipper Jones, Hideki Matsui, Jim Thome, Johan Santana, Johnny Damon, Scott Rolen and Omar Vizquel. Each of them sorta has a HOF claim (Matsui would need some credit for Japan). And fourteen people got enough votes last year to stay on, with both Vlad and Hoffman really close to getting elected.

 

Of the new group, Chipper should be a lock and Thome should be as well. I'd vote for Andruw Jones first ballot but it'll take him a while. Scott Rolen will eventually get in but probably not this year. I think Vizquel eventually gets in as well. The rest don't. 

 

Of the returning guys, Edgar Martinez and Fred McGriff are on their 9th ballot. McGriff won't make it and Edgar has a lot of votes to get. Moose, Schilling, Clemens, Bonds, Larry Walker, Manny, Sheffield, Kent, Wagner and Sosa are the other names, all of which were behind Martinez in voting last year. 

 

Regardless, it's quite likely that the voters put in at least 3 guys this year (Vlad, Hoffman and Chipper) and maybe even a forth (Thome). That's a solid class regardless of what the vets committee does (and they'll probably vote in at least one guy).

[bluechipper]

Jim Thome should be a 1st Ballot lock.

[drjim]

If they can get 4 in this year, that would help the backlog a little.

 

Rolen/Thome strike me as locks, just maybe not 1st ballot. I also wonder if Mussina might sneak in if there is a big enough push.

 

The other potential outcome is a fiasco where only Chipper gets in, which could lead to a loosening of the 10 player max rule.

[biggentleben]

 

If they can get 4 in this year, that would help the backlog a little.

 

Rolen/Thome strike me as locks, just maybe not 1st ballot. I also wonder if Mussina might sneak in if there is a big enough push.

 

The other potential outcome is a fiasco where only Chipper gets in, which could lead to a loosening of the 10 player max rule.

 

Is it horrible that I'm now cheering for this exact scenario??

[drjim]

 

Is it horrible that I'm now cheering for this exact scenario??

 

I would like to think they could fix the rule before the embarrassment. But baseball.

[nicksaviking]

There are going to be enough anti-DH voters and anti-1st balloters who won't be voting Thome in in year one. 

 

But overall I think the voters have turned over a bit and those anti-everyone voters are few and far between, I'd bet there is some collaboration between a lot of the voters, "I'll vote for Vlad and Mussina this year if you make sure to vote Thome and Vizquel in next year" kind of stuff.

[mikelink45]

I like Chipper Jones, Thome, Clemens and Bonds - no one else would be on my ballot.  These are true hall of famers and I am a small hall guy.  Clemens and Bonds were never part of my previous wish list, but the statement has been made and its time to move on.  None of the other ped guys had a resume outside of big home runs so I do not see them deserving.  

 

The others are really good, but not good enough as far as I am concerned.  Vizquel is quite interesting because his reputation puts him in with Aparicio.  

 

It will be interesting because something always happens with this vote to make me scratch my head and yet the fact that other commentors are already backing Rollen and Mussina who have never been HOF in my mind shows the divergence of opinions that exist among fans and voters. 

 

And as you can see I am still not ready to annoint relievers like Hoffman, Wagner was better but will never get in (Rivera will be my exception here), free swingers like Vlad, or DH only guys (Ortiz will be my exception)

[biggentleben]

 

I like Chipper Jones, Thome, Clemens and Bonds - no one else would be on my ballot.  These are true hall of famers and I am a small hall guy.  Clemens and Bonds were never part of my previous wish list, but the statement has been made and its time to move on.  None of the other ped guys had a resume outside of big home runs so I do not see them deserving.  

 

The others are really good, but not good enough as far as I am concerned.  Vizquel is quite interesting because his reputation puts him in with Aparicio.  

 

It will be interesting because something always happens with this vote to make me scratch my head and yet the fact that other commentors are already backing Rollen and Mussina who have never been HOF in my mind shows the divergence of opinions that exist among fans and voters. 

 

And as you can see I am still not ready to annoint relievers like Hoffman, Wagner was better but will never get in (Rivera will be my exception here), free swingers like Vlad, or DH only guys (Ortiz will be my exception)

 

A lot of people (and the stats) would tell you that Vizquel was good, but not THAT good. Reputation got him a lot more than reality, akin to Hosmer's 1B Gold Glove this season when he had one of the worst defensive seasons among AL 1B regulars in any measurement.

[jimmer]

Omar Vizquel was an exceptional fielder.

[Deduno Abides]

Thome: interesting comp for Sano, being discussed on another thread. Another big guy, but never seemed “unfit.”

 

Re HOF: He’ll be a good test for the pattern of denying power hitters from the steroids era. There was never a hint that Thome was doing anything, but there was only conjecture with Bagwell, with no evidence, yet it hurt his candidacy, and he was probably a better all around player than Thome.

[biggentleben]

 

Omar Vizquel was an exceptional fielder.

 

Sure, but he wasn't a guy at a Brooks Robinson, Mark Belanger, Ozzie Smith level, and I'm not sure that he's got the offensive stats to back the absence of that level of defense.

[gunnarthor]

 

Thome: interesting comp for Sano, being discussed on another thread. Another big guy, but never seemed “unfit.”

Re HOF: He’ll be a good test for the pattern of denying power hitters from the steroids era. There was never a hint that Thome was doing anything, but there was only conjecture with Bagwell, with no evidence, yet it hurt his candidacy, and he was probably a better all around player than Thome.

There was a lot more evidence for Bagwell including a trainer who said he gave him and Clemens and Pettitte PEDs. What there wasn't was a (known) failed drug test (there were rumors that he was on the list of players whose results were supposed to be kept secret but never confirmation).

 

Thome's only connection to PEDs is that he happened to play on teams that had a lot of PED users.

[spinowner]

If you have hit over 600 home runs without PED's you should be a first ballot shoo-in. No further discussion.

[diehardtwinsfan]

not getting the Vizquel love at all. Good defender, but he wasn't even the best SS during his time. He went to Cleveland to make room for some kid named A-Rod.

[gunnarthor]

 

not getting the Vizquel love at all. Good defender, but he wasn't even the best SS during his time. He went to Cleveland to make room for some kid named A-Rod.

Yeah, I think Vizquel sticks around on the ballot for a decade but doesn't get in. Sorta the Lee Smith of middle infielders. He was very good though and I think that's being forgot because of his really bad power. He got on base nearly 4000 times (one less than Tony Gwynn) while playing the most games ever at short. He certainly wouldn't be the worst HOFer but I don't think he gets in.

[caninatl04]

If you have hit over 600 home runs without PED's you should be a first ballot shoo-in. No further discussion.

I️ think first round is a little optimistic, but Thome will get in.

Vlad’s election will close the book on the Expos.