Article: Three Bagger: Darvish, Marte & Otani

[Cody Christie]

Even though it is the offseason, the Twins have been making news. Last week, Byron Buxton and Brian Dozier were honored for their outstanding defense. Paul Molitor was named the American League Manager of the Year after the Twins tremendous turnaround in 2017.

 

Here are three other stories that have ties to the Twins. Could the Twins sign one of baseball’s biggest free agent pitchers? What happened with Jelfry Marte? Would Minnesota consider signing one of Japan’s biggest baseball stars?Hunting For An Ace

Things a running a little ahead of schedule in Minnesota after the team qualified for the playoffs for the first time since 2010. Thad Levine and Derek Falvey intend to be buyers this offseason in hopes of making a longer playoff run. There are a number of big name free agents on their list but MLB insider Joy Heyman reports that Yu Darvish is at the top.

 

Levine helped to bring Darvish to Texas, so there is already a relationship between the Twins’ GM and the star pitcher. Darvish posted a 10-12 record with a 3.86 ERA and 209 strikeouts. Jake Arrieta and Lance Lynn are also options for the Twins but the club will be pushing for Darvish to start the off-season.

 

Marte’s Contract Voided

Minnesota made a splash on the International market this summer by signing 16-year old Dominican shortstop Jelfry Marte. This week the Twins voided his $3 million contract due to an issue the team discovered during his physical. Sources say the issue was related to his vision.

 

Marte is now a free agent and has been working out for clubs in Florida. With Marte’s contract off the books, the Twins have an extra $3 million available in their bonus pool to spend on other players. The deadline to use that money is June 15, 2018.

Looking To Japan

The Twins could be looking to spend the money saved from Marte on Japanese star Shohei Otani. Under the new posting system, the release fee was capped at $20 million. To put that in perspective, the Rangers paid a $51 million posting fee to sign Yu Darvish. The lower posting fee will have almost every team interested, including the Twins.

 

MLB’s newest Collective Bargaining Agreement changed the type of deal Otani can sign. He will be subject to international bonus pools. Under the new CBA, players must now be 25 and have played six seasons in a foreign professional league to be exempt from bonus pools. If he waited until next season, he would qualify as a free agent which would mean a lot more money in his pocket. However, he wants to come to MLB now.

 

What are your thoughts on the Twins news from this week? Leave a COMMENT and start the discussion.

 

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[ThejacKmp]

I think we will get Otani. I don't know why I think that but it's out there. He can do some DHing too, which would be fun.

[jrod23]

The title here hinted to what's going on, in my meager opinion.  For the present, we luckily found a way out of Marte's deal.  So unless, there's a circumstance that I'm unaware of, we're be able to drop $6 million+ on Otani (not including the overall posting fee), which is considerably higher than anyone else.  Otani is a huge fan of Darvish.  Darvish has connections with our front office.  So did we find a way out of Marte's deal to sign Otani, once we'd land Darvish?  I mean, don't you just get the kid a pair of glasses/contacts for $100 on the year instead of just outright axe his contract?

[Dantes929]

Cobb would probably cost a lot less and his ERA was better than Darvish and all in the AL.       .   Darvish at 3.86 ERA and 10-12 record.  Their quality start ratios are roughly the same.    Would love to have Darvish but is he really an ace?  Santana's ERA is better both of the last two years and no one seems to think he is better than a #2..  Do we  value SOs more than run prevention?

[Teddy]

JRod, I don't think that's correct. I think the Twins still have just the $3.2 million in the pool to offer Otani.

[Clear]

The title here hinted to what's going on, in my meager opinion.  For the present, we luckily found a way out of Marte's deal.  So unless, there's a circumstance that I'm unaware of, we're be able to drop $6 million+ on Otani (not including the overall posting fee), which is considerably higher than anyone else.  Otani is a huge fan of Darvish.  Darvish has connections with our front office.  So did we find a way out of Marte's deal to sign Otani, once we'd land Darvish?  I mean, don't you just get the kid a pair of glasses/contacts for $100 on the year instead of just outright axe his contract?

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misunderstood the article. The Twins still have the same 3.2 Million to spend, because we voided his contract awhile ago but it wasn’t made public until yesterday. At the end of the day we might not get either Darvish or Otani, we might just resign Marte.

[Riverbrian]

Landing both Darvish and Otani would be the greatest Twins off-season ever. 

 

I'm going to keep my expectations in check because I've never been allowed to reasonably have such expectations. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Landing both Darvish and Otani would be the greatest Twins off-season ever. 

 

I'm going to keep my expectations in check because I've never been allowed to reasonably have such expectations. 

 

what do you do with your Vikings expectations?

[Respy]

 

Landing both Darvish and Otani would be the greatest Twins off-season ever. 

 

I'm going to keep my expectations in check because I've never been allowed to reasonably have such expectations. 

 

One could argue that landing Darvish OR Otani would be the greatest Twins off-season ever?

[snap4birds]

 

So did we find a way out of Marte's deal to sign Otani, once we'd land Darvish?  I mean, don't you just get the kid a pair of glasses/contacts for $100 on the year instead of just outright axe his contract?

Not every vision problem is correctable.  I'm guessing the Twins doctors found a real issue, and Marte will end up signing with someone else for half a million or so.  If he signs with some other team for anything close to $3 million, then you'd have to question what the Twins did, or question the judgment of the other team.

[Lee-The-Twins-Fan]

I'm not high on either Darvish or Otani. After the whole Byung Ho Park experience, I just can't see the Twins spending $26 million or so (posting fee and international bonus money – plus salary) to bring Otani here. Yes, he's an interesting story, but can he make it in MLB as either a pitcher or a hitter? I'm just not sold on it. As for Darvish, he's a No. 2 pitcher, worth getting but only if the price is right. We cannot spend Joe Mauer money on him.

[cmoss84]

 

I'm not high on either Darvish or Otani. After the whole Byung Ho Park experience, I just can't see the Twins spending $26 million or so (posting fee and international bonus money – plus salary) to bring Otani here. Yes, he's an interesting story, but can he make it in MLB as either a pitcher or a hitter? I'm just not sold on it. As for Darvish, he's a No. 2 pitcher, worth getting but only if the price is right. We cannot spend Joe Mauer money on him.

What makes you say he is a number 2 pitcher and not an ace? He might not be a top 10 pitcher in the game (although pretty damn close), but I'd say he's still an ace...

[prouster]

I'm not high on either Darvish or Otani. After the whole Byung Ho Park experience, I just can't see the Twins spending $26 million or so (posting fee and international bonus money – plus salary) to bring Otani here. Yes, he's an interesting story, but can he make it in MLB as either a pitcher or a hitter? I'm just not sold on it. As for Darvish, he's a No. 2 pitcher, worth getting but only if the price is right. We cannot spend Joe Mauer money on him.

Park is from Korea, and Otani is from Japan. They're separate countries who have historically hated one another. Do you apply this standard to American-born players? Plenty of them have busted much worse than Park.

[nytwinsfan]

 

Cobb would probably cost a lot less and his ERA was better than Darvish and all in the AL.       .   Darvish at 3.86 ERA and 10-12 record.  Their quality start ratios are roughly the same.    Would love to have Darvish but is he really an ace?  Santana's ERA is better both of the last two years and no one seems to think he is better than a #2..  Do we  value SOs more than run prevention?

 

I'm going to in all sincerity politely suggest that you read this: https://www.lookoutlanding.com/2017/4/4/15180804/an-idiots-guide-advanced-statistics-fip-era ERA is not a very good measure of run prevention skill by a pitcher. FIP is not perfect either, but it is a lot better. And other similar better measures (xFIP, SIERRA) all show that Darvish is much better than Cobb.

[Winston Smith]

 

what do you do with your Vikings expectations?

People have Vikings expectations? Odd you'd think they'd know better by now.

[Vanimal46]

 

What makes you say he is a number 2 pitcher and not an ace? He might not be a top 10 pitcher in the game (although pretty damn close), but I'd say he's still an ace...

 

Yep. Without diving into the hot taek argument of "WHAT IS AN ACE?", Darvish would absolutely be the best pitcher on this team. I don't like getting into the weeds of whether he's an ace, #2, or #3 pitcher on a grand scale. 

 

Darvish would be the Twins' opening day starter, the first person they'd look at starting on short rest, and start multiple games in a post season series. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Vanimal46

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

People have Vikings expectations? Odd you'd think they'd know better by now.

 

nah.... some of us expect to have our hopes dashed.

[Drew]

 

After the whole Byung Ho Park experience....

Good lord. They aren't even from the same country, much less played in the same league....or the same position. They are as comparable as Jeff Reboulet and Chili Davis. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Park is from Korea, and Otani is from Japan. They're separate countries who have historically hated one another. Do you apply this standard to American-born players? Plenty of them have busted much worse than Park.

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T6ipHrSpXq8/hqdefault.jpg

 

G.I. Joeeeeee..... 

[Major League Ready]

 

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T6ipHrSpXq8/hqdefault.jpg

 

G.I. Joeeeeee..... 

 

I hope they are out trying to trade some of the guys we have been talking about that need 40 man protection for international dollars.   You would think that's feasible given these players are considerably closer to contributing at the ML level and not as big of a crap shoot as 16 y/o international players.  It still might not matter.  I would have to think NY offers more appeal and more income potential in endorsements.Our hope might be allowing him to DH if NY won't make the same promise.

[jrod23]

 

Either I'm misunderstanding you, or you misunderstood the article. The Twins still have the same 3.2 Million to spend, because we voided his contract awhile ago but it wasn’t made public until yesterday. At the end of the day we might not get either Darvish or Otani, we might just resign Marte.

 

Got it.    I read this, "Marte is now a free agent and has been working out for clubs in Florida. With Marte’s contract off the books, the Twins have an extra $3 million available in their bonus pool to spend on other players. The deadline to use that money is June 15, 2018." and automatically thought that was banked money.    I saw in another article now too that it's $3.245.

 

As for all the people turned off from signing different Asian born players, we see nothing more than random Youtube videos at most.  Gotta trust the guys with THE greatest jobs on earth, the scouts.

 

 

[jrod23]

I'd love to see the Twins drink the same Kool-Aid as the Timberwolves drank this past summer.

[h2oface]

I keep trying to get the pathetic look on Darvish's face from the mound during the World Series out of my head....... and how the rental totally screwed the Dodger's. Not once, but twice. It really was a nightmare. Trusting game 7 to a visitor. Positive the "ace" couldn't pitch so poorly twice in a row in the Series......... Ouch. 

[Blake]

 

Yep. Without diving into the hot taek argument of "WHAT IS AN ACE?", Darvish would absolutely be the best pitcher on this team. I don't like getting into the weeds of whether he's an ace, #2, or #3 pitcher on a grand scale. 

 

Darvish would be the Twins' opening day starter, the first person they'd look at starting on short rest, and start multiple games in a post season series. 

Darvish is 31. And hasn't he had some injury issues the last couple of years?

 

I'm not wild about 30 something year old starting pitchers. The Twins already have one of those on the staff. 

 

But, I also admit I'm not wild about spending big bucks on FA pitching, especially when a pitcher is on the other side of 30. Granted, Santana has done darn well but, I think he's more the exception than the rule.

 

Of course, this leads into the very real problem the Twins have when it comes to lack of pitching in the farm system. 

 

And that leads me to believe the Twins are going to have to trade for a younger arm out of another farm system. 

 

Bottom line, I'm expecting the FO to do something other than the obvious.

[rv78]

 

Park is from Korea, and Otani is from Japan. They're separate countries who have historically hated one another. Do you apply this standard to American-born players? Plenty of them have busted much worse than Park.

How many American born players get a 3 year deal of $12 Million right out the chute to play in the bigs? ZERO! And Thanks for the geography lesson. Maybe the right player to call out would have been Nishioki from JAPAN! He worked out real well didn't he. I'm pretty sure the intention was to refer to the international market in the area of Korea and Japan. Wonder why the guys in America that can't make it in MLB go over there to play? Because the competition isn't at the same level as here in the Majors. DUH! So why give any money away to a superstar from over there. He'll more than likely just be average here if he's really that good, or he'll just be another Park or Nishioki.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Park is from Korea, and Otani is from Japan. They're separate countries who have historically hated one another. Do you apply this standard to American-born players? Plenty of them have busted much worse than Park.

When you say "American-born", are you referring to North America, South America, or Central America? I realize they are not 3 countries, but rather are made up of dozens of countries. I guess a better example would have been Nishi, who is also from Japan, and to my way of thinking, was one of the worst signing blunders by the Twins ever. But you know what, I'll give Nishi credit...he realized he was "out of his league" here in the USA and allowed the Twins to keep some of his contract money.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Got it.    I read this, "Marte is now a free agent and has been working out for clubs in Florida. With Marte’s contract off the books, the Twins have an extra $3 million available in their bonus pool to spend on other players. The deadline to use that money is June 15, 2018." and automatically thought that was banked money.    I saw in another article now too that it's $3.245.

 

As for all the people turned off from signing different Asian born players, we see nothing more than random Youtube videos at most.  Gotta trust the guys with THE greatest jobs on earth, the scouts.

I hope Nishi's scouts aren't the same ones who are so anxious to sign another player from Japan.

[rv78]

As for Darvish, he's not an ACE. He's a #2 like Santana. And like Santana he gives up too many gopher balls. After watching him in the World Series I hope they stay away from him. His 2 WS games reminded me too much of Santana's playoff game against the Yankees. 

[Riverbrian]

 

what do you do with your Vikings expectations?

 

I keep them held high until the PK takes the field in the 4th quarter of a playoff game. 

 

Just like everybody else I assume. 

[Riverbrian]

 

How many American born players get a 3 year deal of $12 Million right out the chute to play in the bigs? ZERO! And Thanks for the geography lesson. Maybe the right player to call out would have been Nishioki from JAPAN! He worked out real well didn't he. I'm pretty sure the intention was to refer to the international market in the area of Korea and Japan. Wonder why the guys in America that can't make it in MLB go over there to play? Because the competition isn't at the same level as here in the Majors. DUH! So why give any money away to a superstar from over there. He'll more than likely just be average here if he's really that good, or he'll just be another Park or Nishioki.

 

Otani is from the Iwate Prefecture

 

Nishioka is from the Osaka Prefecture

 

Not a good comparison