General politics

[USMCTwin]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 2:17 PM, ashbury said:

Would you like others to describe how you sound?

 

Don't do that to others.

 

I understand your point, but isn't it the same as assuming what the average Trump voter wants? Both are inflammatory to me and not actually intended to promote conversation. 

[Badsmerf]

  On 7/15/2019 at 6:01 PM, USMCTwin said:

I understand your point, but isn't it the same as assuming what the average Trump voter wants? Both are inflammatory to me and not actually intended to promote conversation.

Isn't the average Trump voter represented in opinion polls? Can't we accurately depict what they support and don't support? Being patronizing is not the same as generalizing. Also, if you're a Trump voter, and disagree with a generalization, I'd be interested to hear how your rational differs.

[ashbury]

  On 7/15/2019 at 6:01 PM, USMCTwin said:

I understand your point, but isn't it the same as assuming what the average Trump voter wants? Both are inflammatory to me and not actually intended to promote conversation. 

And you likewise have a point, but the line has to get drawn somewhere - going after one another isn't allowed at the site, for a variety of reasons.

 

Trying to discern the motivations of the general voting populace is a little different than that, and within the topic of the thread. The statement that you found inflammatory, if based on incorrect assumptions, can be rebutted pretty easily with why you feel your own life is better under Trump, for example.

 

/ edit - I got ninja'd by 'Smerf on that last point

[USMCTwin]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 6:19 PM, Badsmerf said:

Isn't the average Trump voter represented in opinion polls? Can't we accurately depict what they support and don't support? Being patronizing is not the same as generalizing. Also, if you're a Trump voter, and disagree with a generalization, I'd be interested to hear how your rational differs.

 

Not a Trump voter actually. I am a Republican and friends/family of plenty of Trump voters so I still find it offensive. Mostly the part about migrants being treated brutally at the border. I don't know anyone that actually wants that, Trump voter or not. Also just the general idea that Trump voters are happy because other's lives are worse, again I doubt that is the goal of the typical Trump voter. 

 

I for one am happy with his two appointments to the SCOTUS. I got a nice size tax cut and am LOL not wealthy by American standards anyways. I didn't vote for Trump the first time and can't imagine voting for him this time.

 

Sometimes I just think this board goes after Trump supporters/outsiders tone when the tone is similar on both sides at times anyways.     

[USMCTwin]

Quick off topic:Now that I have come out of hiding here as a consistent reader. What happened to DaveW? I just haven't seen a post in a long time and was hoping he was doing well.  

[Badsmerf]

  On 7/15/2019 at 6:51 PM, USMCTwin said:

Quick off topic:Now that I have come out of hiding here as a consistent reader. What happened to DaveW? I just haven't seen a post in a long time and was hoping he was doing well.

Not sure. He was in New York I think? Maybe life got in the way of posting on forums.

[Craig Arko]

[Mike Sixel]

Apparently tax cuts are more important than infrastructure, or paying as you go, or any government services......That is certainly one thing that Trump/GOP voters seems to believe and support at this point. The good of me, vs a healthy nation.

[USMCTwin]

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:12 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Apparently tax cuts are more important than infrastructure, or paying as you go, or any government services......That is certainly one thing that Trump/GOP voters seems to believe and support at this point. The good of me, vs a healthy nation.

If this is directed at my response I guess I reject the notion that we can’t lower taxes for middle class families, pay for infrastructure, and continue to support government services. I don’t believe I said in any of my support of what Trump has done that I think we should forego any of those things.

 

At some point we have decided that if we don’t agree it must be because your idea is wrong headed and inherently bad. I also reject that idea. To be clear I’m not intending to say you are doing this just what I sense in politics in general and part of the reason I enjoy reading here but tend to avoid posting.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:39 PM, USMCTwin said:

If this is directed at my response I guess I reject the notion that we can’t lower taxes for middle class families, pay for infrastructure, and continue to support government services. I don’t believe I said in any of my support of what Trump has done that I think we should forego any of those things.

At some point we have decided that if we don’t agree it must be because your idea is wrong headed and inherently bad. I also reject that idea. To be clear I’m not intending to say you are doing this just what I sense in politics in general and part of the reason I enjoy reading here but tend to avoid posting.

 

The deficit is BOOMING. And the GDP is shrinking. How are we going to pay more for stuff, with less revenue?

 

I'm asking how that works, because the evidence, over the last three GOP presidents, is that this does not work. 

[USMCTwin]

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:44 PM, Mike Sixel said:

The deficit is BOOMING. And the GDP is shrinking. How are we going to pay more for stuff, with less revenue?

 

I'm asking how that works, because the evidence, over the last three GOP presidents, is that this does not work.

To be honest I don’t have the answer. I feel like there is a ton of crony capitalism and political waste. I would love to reign that in. I have my doubts either party will do it. I do find it somewhat ironic that you seem to be insinuating we can’t do those 3 things, but most of the Democratic candidates want to forgive massive amounts of student debt. I really don’t have the answers as to what should be cut, but I refuse to believe me being happy that the child tax credit was increased is selfish because now the nation can’t fix roads.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:48 PM, USMCTwin said:

To be honest I don’t have the answer. I feel like there is a ton of crony capitalism and political waste. I would love to reign that in. I have my doubts either party will do it. I do find it somewhat ironic that you seem to be insinuating we can’t do those 3 things, but most of the Democratic candidates want to forgive massive amounts of student debt. I really don’t have the answers as to what should be cut, but I refuse to believe me being happy that the child tax credit was increased is selfish because now the nation can’t fix roads.

 

Of course, they want to raise taxes also.

 

there is not enough waste in the government to pay for anything, unless you consider military spending a waste (I do not). There just isn't enough other spending.

 

The US has historically low tax rates, ridiculously low compared to every other modern society. There simply is not enough revenue to pay for all the stuff we should have (like roads that aren't crumbling, and good schools and clean water).

[USMCTwin]

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:51 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Of course, they want to raise taxes also.

 

there is not enough waste in the government to pay for anything, unless you consider military spending a waste (I do not). There just isn't enough other spending.

 

The US has historically low tax rates, ridiculously low compared to every other modern society. There simply is not enough revenue to pay for all the stuff we should have (like roads that aren't crumbling, and good schools and clean water).

Our tax rates are actually not that out of line compared to other countries if you consider federal plus state taxes. I was in the Marine Corps there is plenty of waste in the defense budget as well. I don’t have all the answers I readily admit that but I don’t think TCJA is what will make our roads fall apart.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, our tax rates are MUCH lower, and all of these studies are from before the massive cuts....

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/11/29/the-countries-most-reliant-on-tax-revenue-infographic/#6da28a3180fc

 

The US is 7% below the OECD average, before the tax cuts. Imagine what 7% could do, let alone what the difference is now.

 

South Korea, chile, Ireland, Mexico and Turkey are the only nations below the US.

 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/inequality-and-tax-rates-global-comparison

 

[PseudoSABR]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 11:42 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Mexico 

 

https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/inequality-and-tax-rates-global-comparison

No wonder they couldn't afford The Wall!

[stringer bell]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:48 PM, USMCTwin said:

To be honest I don’t have the answer. I feel like there is a ton of crony capitalism and political waste. I would love to reign that in. I have my doubts either party will do it. I do find it somewhat ironic that you seem to be insinuating we can’t do those 3 things, but most of the Democratic candidates want to forgive massive amounts of student debt. I really don’t have the answers as to what should be cut, but I refuse to believe me being happy that the child tax credit was increased is selfish because now the nation can’t fix roads.

Thanks for your contribution here USMC Twin. I don't agree with you much, but your comments do show why a portion of our people have voted for and supported Republicans. Regarding tax cuts, the shape of the GOP cut favored the wealthy and wealthiest in our nation. IMHO, these are the people that needed help least. The theory that putting more money in the pockets of the wealthiest would cause massive reinvestment has again been shown to be flawed. 

 

My personal example is that I did pay less in taxes in 2018 (marginally) and each of my four adult children benefited more than myself--I've said for a long time that I'm doing fine, but my kids are all doing better than me (Success!). Of my four kids, three will be more likely to vote for Trump and Republicans because of the tax cut. Does this make sense for the country? No, but for the upper 20-30% of people, it is a nice bonus. 

 

This pillar of Republican policy (cut taxes!) is fueling the debt and deficit we've heard prominent Republicans worry about every time a Democratic idea with a cost comes up.The hypocrisy is off the scale. The division in this country between haves and have nots is the worst I have seen in my 65 years and the gap is growing. 

[howeda7]

 

  On 7/15/2019 at 10:39 PM, USMCTwin said:

If this is directed at my response I guess I reject the notion that we can’t lower taxes for middle class families, pay for infrastructure, and continue to support government services. I don’t believe I said in any of my support of what Trump has done that I think we should forego any of those things.

At some point we have decided that if we don’t agree it must be because your idea is wrong headed and inherently bad. I also reject that idea. To be clear I’m not intending to say you are doing this just what I sense in politics in general and part of the reason I enjoy reading here but tend to avoid posting.

Actually we can't. And we certainly couldn't afford the even bigger tax cut for the wealthy. If there's an issue the GOP lost me on pre-Trump, it was that they showed themselves to be frauds in claiming to care about the deficit and the debt. Yes Dems are tax and spend. But R's are borrow and spend. And neither is remotely interested in addressing the debt, but at least Dems don't pretend otherwise.

[ewen21]

  On 7/15/2019 at 6:01 PM, USMCTwin said:

I understand your point, but isn't it the same as assuming what the average Trump voter wants?

That comment was allowed to go unchecked.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

  On 7/16/2019 at 11:31 PM, howeda7 said:

Actually we can't. And we certainly couldn't afford the even bigger tax cut for the wealthy. If there's an issue the GOP lost me on pre-Trump, it was that they showed themselves to be frauds in claiming to care about the deficit and the debt. Yes Dems are tax and spend. But R's are borrow and spend. And neither is remotely interested in addressing the debt, but at least Dems don't pretend otherwise.

This is one of the top three reasons I left the GOP two decades ago.

 

There are literally two options:

 

1. Tax and spend

2. Don't tax and don't spend

 

There is no third option. One party has subscribed to the first (though not as heavily as they should) while the other just ignores basic economic principles in favor of magic pixie dust that is created once the yacht-building industry hits maximum velocity.

[Badsmerf]

Well, at least Rand Paul is holding true to not increasing spending. Where was he with the tax cuts? Strange he chose this issue to stand up (health care for 9/11 victims). I agree with him, but don't think he is genuine or just sold out.

[PseudoSABR]

 

  On 7/18/2019 at 1:20 AM, Badsmerf said:

Well, at least Rand Paul is holding true to not increasing spending. Where was he with the tax cuts? Strange he chose this issue to stand up (health care for 9/11 victims). I agree with him, but don't think he is genuine or just sold out.

Paul and his ilk are against the government generally, either when it taxes or when it borrows. I think he's a fool, whose views if put into practice are akin to anarchy, but his view is not exactly inconsistent.

[Badsmerf]

  On 7/18/2019 at 3:15 AM, PseudoSABR said:

Paul and his ilk are against the government generally, either when it taxes or when it borrows. I think he's a fool, whose views if put into practice are akin to anarchy, but his view is not exactly inconsistent.

I wish everyone is Congress was more concerned with the budget and spending. My issue is that he folded to the tax plan which ballooned our deficit. He should have voted against it, or made them offset the tax cut with spending cuts.

[PseudoSABR]

 

  On 7/18/2019 at 3:39 AM, Badsmerf said:

I wish everyone is Congress was more concerned with the budget and spending. My issue is that he folded to the tax plan which ballooned our deficit. He should have voted against it, or made them offset the tax cut with spending cuts.

I think he cares more about dissolving the government than dissolving the deficit; cutting taxes provides an excuse to cut spending, and thereby shrink government. The deficit is a smokescreen.

[ewen21]

I've grown to distrust Washington democrats because they are all about their rhetoric. They have become a party that fronts up "race and gender inequalities" and it's nothing but patronizing baloney. They won't solve those issues in a million years. Any bankrupt ghettoized city in the US was been run by democrats forever. I find it refreshing when I see black conservatives dismantling democratic BS talking points. They've been used by the democrats since the 60s and it's good to see a lot of them leaving the democratic plantation.

 

My support of Trump has as much to do with (if not more), my disdain for what I'm seeing from the democrats. Most specifically that coterie of loudmouths known as "the squad"

[ashbury]

Where you see loudmouths I see very intelligent and articulate women, raising significant issues and not baloney. They remind me of my daughter, who gets things done assertively without being abrasive.

 

The rest of your post is too disgusting to dive into. You really should rethink your principles.

[USAFChief]

 

  On 7/18/2019 at 11:29 AM, ewen21 said:

I've grown to distrust Washington democrats because they are all about their rhetoric. They have become a party that fronts up "race and gender inequalities" and it's nothing but patronizing baloney. They won't solve those issues in a million years. Any bankrupt ghettoized city in the US was been run by democrats forever. I find it refreshing when I see black conservatives dismantling democratic BS talking points. They've been used by the democrats since the 60s and it's good to see a lot of them leaving the democratic plantation.

My support of Trump has as much to do with (if not more), my disdain for what I'm seeing from the democrats. Most specifically that coterie of loudmouths known as "the squad"

The rest of 'em should go back to where they came from, amiright?

[gunnarthor]

Can you believe some people care about race and gender inequalities? Damn hippies. 

[USAFChief]

 

  On 7/18/2019 at 1:58 PM, gunnarthor said:

Can you believe some people care about race and gender inequalities? Damn hippies. 

That they care about race is proof of their racism. 

 

Not caring about inequalities, now that is not racism.

 

Ergo, Trump is not a racist.

 

 

[ewen21]

  On 7/18/2019 at 1:50 PM, USAFChief said:

The rest of 'em should go back to where they came from, amiright?

No, you are wrong.

 

I wouldn't mind if Omar took a hike though.

[Craig Arko]

“Where I came from” is ionized hydrogen and interstellar dust
The sloughed-off remains of a giant star
Radioactive sparks in sunbeam suspension

 

“Where I came from” is a long-lost generation of suns
Those that lived and died and scattered their own remains
Nuclear detonations of compact matter, the death spiral plunges of neutron stars

 

“Where I came from” is the empty depths, the far-flung glints on the cosmic ocean

“Where I came from” is an eddy in an infrared-hot protoplanetary disk

“Where I came from” is a collision of worlds so violent it tore magma from the Earth to coalesce into the Moon

 

“Where I came from” is the sky, the ground, the sea, the very air we breathe

“Where I came from” is the infinite

“Where I came from” is the Universe

 

And one day, when I am good and ready, I will go back

 

-- Astrophysicist Dr. Katherine Mack

 

Works for me, too.