General politics

[Squirrel]

The Pledge is done but no one is compelled to stand with hand on heart and recite it.

I am reading so much negative--almost fearful--commentary on it her

First off, no said anyone was forced to say the pledge with their hands on their hearts today. I said that that was what we did when I was in grade school, that that was what we were taught and what we were expected to do, with nothing taught about what we were saying. I couldn’t even pronounce some of the words, let alone knew what they even were.

 

As for being forced at all, again, no one said that. My statements above about not required was a question, indicated with a question mark(?) because I don’t know what is and isn’t something that is done daily or not in schools. It’s been a while since I was even in one, let alone attended, particularly the lower grades. And there was a case of a student being expelled for refusing to participate, but I didn’t know the details of that. I thought it was in the last 5-10 years.

 

Negative and fearful? Again, I don’t read that at all. I read varying viewpoints, some of which I agree with, some of which I don’t. No one is being negative, positive, fearful or joyful, just saying what they think.

[Squirrel]

I'm not for or against it, I just don't get why anyone thinks under God is inclusive at all.

As for anthems at sporting events,I hate that. But then, I think tribalism is one of the best and worst things for us.... As a society

The anthems are over done. It’s just not necessary to do this every day, before every game. I think doing the anthem once, at the top of the first game of a series, is fine. You look around and most ignore it. Not to mention most of the ‘performances’ of it are just awful ... don’t get me started on that.

 

But ‘God Bless America’ (which isn’t an official anthem, it’s just an Irving Berlin song) can go away. I get why we did that in the beginning, and I was good with that, but retire it now. It’s time. Or do it only on certain days, i.e. 4th/July, Memorial Day.

[ewen21]

Carole, it was called paranoid and Orwellian, strange, immature, kinda dumb, the world rolls their eyes at us; the words "under God" was tied into fear of communism, etc....etc

 

Those are not negative characterizations?

[Squirrel]

Carole, it was called paranoid and Orwellian, strange, immature, kinda dumb, the world rolls their eyes at us; the words "under God" was tied into fear of communism, etc....etc

Those are not negative characterizations?

<shrug>

 

Negative and positive are just subjective. Some things I agree with, some I don’t.

[Craig Arko]

Since analytics are popular here, consumer confidence is falling...

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-25/u-s-consumer-confidence-falls-to-lowest-since-september-2017

[jokin]

 

Since analytics are popular here, consumer confidence is falling...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-25/u-s-consumer-confidence-falls-to-lowest-since-september-2017

 

Many on the Left are cheerleading and constantly in search of such confirmation bias indicators...

[Mike Sixel]

You actually "hate" hearing the national anthem at a sporting event?

 

That about sums it up for me. The over-the-top negative reaction to these things I will never understand. It's so innocuous and small yet people like yourself latch onto "hate" for it?

 

I see it as a bonding thing. One nation, many cultures become a melting pot. I guess not, eh?

 

I'm out.

I do. I'm not a fan of nationalism. I don't expect most people to agree, and I would never legislate playing it or not. That's up to the teams.

 

Like I said, tribalism has both advantages and disadvantages. I don't think sports needs even more....

[Squirrel]

Many on the Left are cheerleading and constantly in search of such confirmation bias indicators...

Many on the right are cheerleading and constantly in search of such confirmation bias indicators...

 

 

 

It works both ways in this country, and I don’t think one over the other can claim any kind of righteous indignation.

[LaBombo]

 

Many on the Left are cheerleading and constantly in search of such confirmation bias indicators...

 

Come now, my good man... Craig didn't actually say that bad economic indicators are to be cheered for based on what they portend in the 2020 election... 

 

Fwiw, as Carole implied, I think that painting the economy as good or bad is more of an incumbent/challenger thing than it is a conservative/liberal thing. The exception would be the faaaaar left, which has been warning of the impending collapse of capitalism on and off for... well, about as long I can remember.

[jokin]

 

Many on the right are cheerleading and constantly in search of such confirmation bias indicators...



It works both ways in this country, and I don’t think one over the other can claim any kind of righteous indignation.

 

Not sure I was being righteously indignant here, as you seem to imply. I was merely pointing out the confirmation bias displayed by the poster. I'm a financial analyst, I believe in looking at all of the facts, not cherry picking- I laugh at the talking heads in financial journalism who show their biases daily- and cost people money who listen to them as if they speak the whole "Truth."

[jokin]

 

Come now, my good man... Craig didn't actually say that bad economic indicators are to be cheered for based on what they portend in the 2020 election... 

 

Fwiw, as Carole implied, I think that painting the economy as good or bad is more of an incumbent/challenger thing than it is a conservative/liberal thing. The exception would be the faaaaar left, which has been warning of the impending collapse of capitalism on and off for... well, about as long I can remember.

 

If you watched the debates this week, it was like the Democrat Body Politic has been taken over by "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers."

 

Most Wall Street Dems are apoplectic and appalled by what this field are advocating.

[Squirrel]

Not sure I was being righteously indignant here, as you seem to imply. I was merely pointing out the confirmation bias displayed by the poster. I'm a financial analyst, I believe in looking at all of the facts, not cherry picking- I laugh at the talking heads in financial journalism who show their biases daily- and cost people money who listen to them as if they speak the whole "Truth."

Point being ... rebut the post instead of assuming characteristics of the poster. You turned it personal about Craig. Bring your expertise to the discussion and tell us what you think of the article and why you disagree with it. And I’m not saying I’m completely innocent, either. We all look for and post confirmation of what we think. But at the very least, go after the post if you disagree with it, not the poster. We get far too much of that all over the internet.

[ewen21]

I do. I'm not a fan of nationalism. I don't expect most people to agree, and I would never legislate playing it or not. That's up to the teams.

 

Like I said, tribalism has both advantages and disadvantages. I don't think sports needs even more....

Sorry you feel that way.

[Badsmerf]

Jokin, you don't think we are waking a fine line right now? The world economies are shrinking, we're starting trade wars with everyone.... there is plenty of reason for concern. The metrics are holding well so far for us, but that doesn't mean we are impenetrable to what is happening to other counties.

[LaBombo]

 

If you watched the debates this week, it was like the Democrat Body Politic has been taken over by "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers."

 

Most Wall Street Dems are apoplectic and appalled by what this field are advocating.

 

And Wall Street isn't the only place where people are concerned. Bill Maher distilled his larger point  about the candidates pandering to the "Twitter mob" down to one particular example, that of the otherwise sharp Julian Castro "winning the Woke Olympics" with his support for transgender abortions.

 

And in a more serious 'hard news' vein, even MSNBC featured some hand-wringing about the stage full of raised hands in response to the query whether their health insurance plan would cover illegal immigrants.

[Mr. Brooks]

And Wall Street isn't the only place where people are concerned. Bill Maher distilled his larger point about the candidates pandering to the "Twitter mob" down to one particular example, that of the otherwise sharp Julian Castro "winning the Woke Olympics" with his support for transgender abortions.

 

And in a more serious 'hard news' vein, even MSNBC featured some hand-wringing about the stage full of raised hands in response to the query whether their health insurance plan would cover illegal immigrants.

The platform that the Dems are running on, which I've always felt, is that healthcare is a basic human right.

You can't believe that, and deny healthcare to undocumented immigrants. So I don't get the controversy there. I understand disagreeing, but I don't understand questioning why it is they'd take that stance.

 

On a pragmatic note, I'd have to think it's cheaper to offer them primary care, rather than have everyone absorb unpaid emergency room visits.

[Craig Arko]

Point being ... rebut the post instead of assuming characteristics of the poster. You turned it personal about Craig. Bring your expertise to the discussion and tell us what you think of the article and why you disagree with it. And I’m not saying I’m completely innocent, either. We all look for and post confirmation of what we think. But at the very least, go after the post if you disagree with it, not the poster. We get far too much of that all over the internet.

If it wasn’t for the occasional ad-hom I might think I was on Facebook or Twitter instead.

[Craig Arko]

The economy still favors the incumbent at the moment.

 

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/29/737059959/democratic-debate-highlights-a-big-advantage-for-trump-its-the-economy

[Badsmerf]

I had to think twice about the undocumented immigrant getting free healthcare.... At the end of the day, would you be able to tell a 5 year old girl that she can't get antibiotics for her strep throat? I couldn't, and don't believe we should turn people away because of their resident status. I'm not a Christian, but know the religion well. Jesus would call out anyone that put their own money over the health of others. I paid $10,000 in healthcare last year with premiums and deductibles. There is no way a single payer system is more expensive, and if it is, I would sleep better at night knowing someone is getting care they wouldn't have prior to it.

[ewen21]

The platform that the Dems are running on, which I've always felt, is that healthcare is a basic human right.

You can't believe that, and deny healthcare to undocumented immigrants. So I don't get the controversy there. I understand disagreeing, but I don't understand questioning why it is they'd take that stance.

 

.

Undocumented immigrants entered illegally and have not achieved US citizenship. THAT is a fact independent of any feeling you or I might have.

[Badsmerf]

Undocumented immigrants entered illegally and have not achieved US citizenship. THAT is a fact independent of any feeling you or I might have.

That means they don't deserve to be healthy, or see a doctor? It may be a fact, but it doesn't have to be a factor in this discussion unless it is made one. Plus, we're already treating and paying for many of these people. Let's take the fear away so small problems don't turn into big ones.

[ewen21]

That means they don't deserve to be healthy, or see a doctor? It may be a fact, but it doesn't have to be a factor in this discussion unless it is made one. Plus, we're already treating and paying for many of these people. Let's take the fear away so small problems don't turn into big ones.

You are the one saying people who aren't citizens should be entitled to a health care plan by law. By doing that we will encourage more illegal entry into the country and that would exacerbate the already dire crisis at the border. I would say you and your democratic counterparts have questions to answer before you start confronting me with questions.

 

 

I honestly don't understand how we can have this discussion. Are we going to tax the wealthy to achieve this as well? We are already being promised loan forgiveness, free college, reparations, increased wages and housing. What incentive does this give the bottom ten to fifteen percent to even try? Essentially we are now promising all these things to anyone born and they don't even need to come legally. Why would anyone from Central America at this moment in time bother to become a US citizen? How is it fair that people from Africa or Asia who want to emigrate to the US but must get passports, provide documentation and take tests to become citizens while the people south of the border can circumvent all of it because their geographical advantage? I would imagine the most desperate people from Africa and Asia would crash Mexico and Central America in increased numbers to arrive at our southern border to get theirs. You want to do this and scream about babies drowning? Like that's not going to get WORSE. When you sit down and actually think for a moment about what would transpire you eventually understand it is sheer madness. Where is THE PLAN on how this is executed?

 

It sounds nice, but mandated healthcare for all PLUS undocumented people really is ludicrous because it requires US to foot the bill and I am not into that. I'd much rather shell out an extra 100 dollars to build infrastructure in blighted areas or invest money in businesses there. Seems to me those issues are far bigger and have been far bigger for decades and these democratic candidates are not focusing enough on that. All these promises being made by democrats are is rhetoric and promises that cannot realistically be fulfilled. You should be asking them more questions as to HOW this gets accomplished before you start asking me questions

 

This kind of talk, quite frankly, is not to be taken seriously and it is not putting Americans first. GIVE US YOUR PLAN and stop talking the talk. In theory we all "deserve" food, clothing, housing and we can't even do that! We have NEVER been able to accomplish that. No society has. Now democrats are insisting we fund compulsory healthcare for an exploding population of undocumented people? On top of reparations, loan forgiveness, free college, the New Green Deal, etc??

 

That debate was a clown show. I actually was hoping someone might surface to compete with Trump for my vote. None of those candidates appeal to me on even the tiniest of levels. They are all hot air

[Squirrel]

You are the one saying people who aren't citizens should be entitled to a health care plan by law. By doing that we will encourage more illegal entry into the country and that would exacerbate the already dire crisis at the border. I would say you and your democratic counterparts have questions to answer before you start confronting me with questions.

I honestly don't understand how we can have this discussion. Are we going to tax the wealthy to achieve this as well? We are already being promised loan forgiveness, free college, reparations, increased wages and housing. What incentive does this give the bottom ten to fifteen percent to even try? Essentially we are now promising all these things to anyone born and they don't even need to come legally. Why would anyone from Central America at this moment in time bother to become a US citizen? How is it fair that people from Africa or Asia who want to emigrate to the US but must get passports, provide documentation and take tests to become citizens while the people south of the border can circumvent all of it because their geographical advantage? I would imagine the most desperate people from Africa and Asia would crash Mexico and Central America in increased numbers to arrive at our southern border to get theirs. You want to do this and scream about babies drowning? Like that's not going to get WORSE. When you sit down and actually think for a moment about what would transpire you eventually understand it is sheer madness. Where is THE PLAN on how this is executed?

It sounds nice, but mandated healthcare for all PLUS undocumented people really is ludicrous because it requires US to foot the bill and I am not into that. I'd much rather shell out an extra 100 dollars to build infrastructure in blighted areas or invest money in businesses there. Seems to me those issues are far bigger and have been far bigger for decades and these democratic candidates are not focusing enough on that. All these promises being made by democrats are is rhetoric and promises that cannot realistically be fulfilled. You should be asking them more questions as to HOW this gets accomplished before you start asking me questions

This kind of talk, quite frankly, is not to be taken seriously and it is not putting Americans first. GIVE US YOUR PLAN and stop talking the talk. In theory we all "deserve" food, clothing, housing and we can't even do that! We have NEVER been able to accomplish that. No society has. Now democrats are insisting we fund compulsory healthcare for an exploding population of undocumented people? On top of reparations, loan forgiveness, free college, the New Green Deal, etc??

That debate was a clown show. I actually was hoping someone might surface to compete with Trump for my vote. None of those candidates appeal to me on even the tiniest of levels. They are all hot air

Right. Let’s rip children as young as 4 months away from their parents, put them in cages and overcrowded facilities, or a metal building without windows, don’t let them outside, don’t even give them basic necessities such as soap and toothbrushes, let them sleep on concrete floors, no access to care so some of them die, forget our humanity and the fact that these are children, all because they aren’t ‘our kind’ of people, that sounds like a good plan. Because, hey, me first.

 

Oh, wait, our government is already doing that. Oh, and allowing private detention centers to reap the rewards. Hey, rah rah America. America first.

 

Must we lose our humanity for the sake of national pride? That’s too heavy of a cost for me. And, imo, is wrong.

 

We’re one of those he wealthiest countries. We have the money, it is just appropriated poorly. Most every other country can take care of its own citizen’s healthcare as well as others that cross their borders, whether it be immigrants, refugees, tourists, or other visitors, we should be able to, too.

[ewen21]

We have to pick and choose where to allocate funds to better this country. We also can't pretend that all the money is going to come from taxing the top 1%. I'd prefer helping blighted urban areas with a BIG TIME push which would require anyone earning over 100,000 in yearly salary (me included) to pay .2 of a percent into a federal tax that would address and improve infrastructure, commercial business opportunities and housing in select areas. Start with cities like Detroit and St. Louis. It would require a focus on re-engineering decaying areas with more modern infrastructure. I would also want a focus on offering incentives to prospective African American business owners and construction firms to set up in and near these areas. I would also want trade schools that offer very low tuitions to those living in these areas. It's kind of a pie in the sky idea that I must attempt to develop better, but give THAT rather than what all the democratic candidates raised their hands for in the debate. Let's spend energy on THAT not on giving services to undocumented citizens

 

We need to talk about an initiative focusing on long term poverty stricken areas here rather than are we/aren't we going to provide healthcare for undocumented non-citizens. Lets get our priorities straight.

[ewen21]

Right. Let’s rip children as young as 4 months away from their parents, put them in cages and overcrowded facilities, or a metal building without windows, don’t let them outside, don’t even give them basic necessities such as soap and toothbrushes, let them sleep on concrete floors, no access to care so some of them die, forget our humanity and the fact that these are children,

 

Oh, wait, our government is already doing that. Oh, and allowing private detention centers to reap the rewards. Hey, rah rah America. America first.

 

Must we lose our humanity for the sake of national pride?

 

 

Explain to me how these centers "reap rewards" if they are overcrowded, overwhelmed and under fire? The people running these places didn't sign up for what it's become. In fact, maybe you aren't aware a great number of border patrol workers are sons and daughters of immigrants from some the places these migrants are coming from. The way you word this it's as though these places are set up to serve a cruel system designed to lure people into their trap for their own person gain. ICE officials actually spoke in congress a couple of months ago outlining the challenges they face. They were the ones talking about this when Trump hating liberals were calling the border situation a "manufactured crisis"

If they are reaping rewards shouldn't they be convincing all of us it's "a manufactured crisis"???

 

The fact that you tie "national pride" in with horrible conditions at detainment centers is an entirely different matter which requires elaboration. You are suggesting national pride cannot exist without setting up what you've referred to as "concentration camps"

We can't be humane and have national pride at the same time? Make me understand

[Squirrel]

 

Explain to me how these centers "reap rewards" if they are overcrowded, overwhelmed and under fire? The people running these places didn't sign up for what it's become. In fact, maybe you aren't aware a great number of border patrol workers are sons and daughters of immigrants from some the places these migrants are coming from. The way you word this it's as though these places are set up to serve a cruel system designed to lure people into their trap for their own person gain. ICE officials actually spoke in congress a couple of months ago outlining the challenges they face. They were the ones talking about this when Trump hating liberals were calling the border situation a "manufactured crisis"
If they are reaping rewards shouldn't they be convincing all of us it's "a manufactured crisis"???

The fact that you tie "national pride" in with horrible conditions at detainment centers is an entirely different matter which requires elaboration. You are suggesting national pride cannot exist without setting up what you've referred to as "concentration camps"
We can't be humane and have national pride at the same time? Make me understand

Of course we can have national pride and be humane at the same time. But that isn't what you stated in your 'Americans first' comment. There is room for all to have health care, including immigrants, legal or not. But what we are currently doing, not caring for immigrant children, and putting them into horrific conditions, it is NOT humane. Until you address that, it is my contention that your 'America first' comment was national pride at the price of humanity. What is happening in Clint, TX ... abhorrent. Worse than even. Those are concentration camp-like facilities. Cramming kids, not giving them proper food or water, no access to showers, etc. Ugh. That facility isn't for-profit ... but, nonetheless, it's nothing more than a government-run concentration camp. The for-profit detention center I was referring to is in Homestead, FL. Read up on it. They are profiting off of Trump's family separation policies. And you scoff at the suggestion of not giving health care to immigrants ... that includes the children among them ... and I find not providing health care, well, lacking in humanity.

[Badsmerf]

Ewen, we're already paying for these people to get healthcare.... You did realize that right? The difference is, we're paying for emergency room visits, not primary or preventative care. Which costs us more money?

 

Create a better pathway to citizenship for the people living here, then they won't be undocumented anymore.

 

If you're worried about money allocation... stop voting people in that are wasting billions and billions of dollars on the military. Wasted. Unnecessary.

 

Yes, taxes will need to be raised. However, no more premiums or copays will cancel it out for most people. Cut out the insurance industry, and you cut billions off the cost of healthcare. Make healthcare providers and drug companies accountable.

 

I'm so tired of the selfish me and my money first this country has adopted. We didn't come this far as a species thinking of ourselves. We will become an extinct species because of it. We only have one world, and we're connected to all the people in it. I wish we would act like it.

[Badsmerf]

Ewen, we're already paying for these people to get healthcare.... You did realize that right? The difference is, we're paying for emergency room visits, not primary or preventative care. Which costs us more money?

 

Create a better pathway to citizenship for the people living here, then they won't be undocumented anymore.

 

If you're worried about money allocation... stop voting people in that are wasting billions and billions of dollars on the military. Wasted. Unnecessary.

 

Yes, taxes will need to be raised. However, no more premiums or copays will cancel it out for most people. Cut out the insurance industry, and you cut billions off the cost of healthcare. Make healthcare providers and drug companies accountable.

 

I'm so tired of the selfish me and my money first this country has adopted. We didn't come this far as a species thinking of ourselves. We will become an extinct species because of it. We only have one world, and we're connected to all the people in it. I wish we would act like it.

[ewen21]

I don't believe universal health care for all plus undocumented is possible. We haven't accomplished it without the added proviso made by the democrats in all these years of talking about and campaigns are being fueled by this rhetoric. They don't even present the plan on how this is accomplished. There ought to be some kind of thesis or scholarly work put out on how this works but none of these cadidates have produced anything in that area. It's just a hollow promise.

[ewen21]

Smerf, said tax ME 200 to 500 dollars a year to fix infrastructure and create opportunities in decaying urban areas for African AMERICANS. Don't give me this guff about greed