General politics

[PseudoSABR]

https://twitter.com/Anna_Giaritelli/status/1124020402307649539

[Craig Arko]

Yes.

 

"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” - Julius Nyerere

[Mike Sixel]

 

Yes.

"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” - Julius Nyerere

 

so true!

[Mike Sixel]

As usual, I agree with Craig here:

 

https://www.craigcalcaterra.com/blog/say-no-to-nancy-pelosis-sad-cynical-and-fearful-strategy

[Craig Arko]

The DoD wants to Rock n Roll all night, and party every day.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/media/gene-simmons-pentagon-briefing/index.html

[ewen21]

 

As usual, I agree with Craig here:

 

https://www.craigcalcaterra.com/blog/say-no-to-nancy-pelosis-sad-cynical-and-fearful-strategy

The impeach Trump crowd has bigger things to worry about now than fixating on trying to remove him from office.

 

The Democratic party has gone utterly insane.

[Mike Sixel]

The impeach Trump crowd has bigger things to worry about now than fixating on trying to remove him from office.

 

The Democratic party has gone utterly insane.

Wtf does that even mean?

[PseudoSABR]

 

The Democratic party has gone utterly insane.

The party is showing restraint by not impeaching him, right? I think you keep using anecdotal politicians comments as representative of the whole party, without acknowledging that the Democrats haven't actually done anything remotely insane.  And for the record, I think impeachment is appropriate; it's important for both historical and accountability reason. 

 

And what do you say about the GOP? Totally acting legitimately and fairly, right? 

[Craig Arko]

Which party is worried about space pirates?

[TheLeviathan]

 

As usual, I agree with Craig here:

pelosis-sad-cynical-and-fearful-strategy

 

I'm sorry, where did Pelosi shut down progressive policies? All she's done is rebrand them to sell them better.  That's smart.  There is no viable path, right now, for anything progressive to get into law without major election victories.  So her mind is on that.  She's being savvy.  Since when did the left join in on thinking being smart was being timid or cynical?  That's a BS right-wing schtick. 

 

I think you, and Craig, are misreading what she's doing.  You want a narrow group of applause lines and she wants to win.  Only one of those things actually accomplishes much.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Can someone explain to me the goal of impeachment proceedings that actually wins votes in 2020?

 

I’m done with pyrrhic victories. I’ll take a good old fashioned straight up victory this time around, thanks.

[ewen21]

 

Wtf does that even mean?

It means that if the mission of the democratic party right now is to impeach Trump they are out of their minds.  The Mueller Report was a big swing and a miss and we are already gearing up for the next race.  It means the democrats need to get their house in order.  It means that the democrats in congress need to get to work and serve the people.

 

I could go on......

[Mike Sixel]

It means that if the mission of the democratic party right now is to impeach Trump they are out of their minds. The Mueller Report was a big swing and a miss and we are already gearing up for the next race. It means the democrats need to get their house in order. It means that the democrats in congress need to get to work and serve the people.

 

I could go on......

Well, they aren't trying to impeach him. The Mueller investigation led to multiple convictions, and the GOP controls two of the three units of government that pass laws..... So, I still have no idea what your post means.

[Squirrel]

 

It means that if the mission of the democratic party right now is to impeach Trump they are out of their minds.  The Mueller Report was a big swing and a miss and we are already gearing up for the next race.  It means the democrats need to get their house in order.  It means that the democrats in congress need to get to work and serve the people.

 

I could go on......

If that were their goal, they'd have brought it before Congress already.

 

And I'd remind you, that the Republicans in Congress need to get to work and serve the people instead of themselves and their wealthiest constituents.

[ewen21]

If that were their goal, they'd have brought it before Congress already.

 

And I'd remind you, that the Republicans in Congress need to get to work and serve the people instead of themselves and their wealthiest constituents.

Let's see what the democratic congress does to address the border crisis. If they are going to vote down what Graham presents (because they obviously won't support anything Trump puts out), they should present SOMETHING

[ewen21]

Well, they aren't trying to impeach him. The Mueller investigation led to multiple convictions, and the GOP controls two of the three units of government that pass laws..... So, I still have no idea what your post means.

You agree with everything in that article. How about you give a little synopsis of what makes it so awesome?

 

I read it and actually cannot believe you consider it to be good journalism with a worthy message

[TheLeviathan]

 

Let's see what the democratic congress does to address the border crisis. If they are going to vote down what Graham presents (because they obviously won't support anything Trump puts out), they should present SOMETHING

 

The Republicans raised the alarms, shouldn't they have some kind of solution agreed upon?  Many Republicans will vote down Graham's bill too.

[ewen21]

The Republicans raised the alarms, shouldn't they have some kind of solution agreed upon? Many Republicans will vote down Graham's bill too.

The point went over your head. At least he wrote a bill with a comprehensive plan. Trump finally presented something comprehensive yesterday.

 

Who's going to be the democrat to step forward with an idea about how to address this?

[TheLeviathan]

 

The point went over your head. At least he wrote a bill with a comprehensive plan. Trump finally presented something comprehensive yesterday.

Who's going to be the democrat to step forward with an idea about how to address this?

 

Why would the Dems want to do that?  Is the key to GOP healing the inclusion of Democrats?

 

Trumps plan, by the way, was also criticized by many Republicans.  

 

I believe you missed the point.  There is no sane reason why the Democrats would get in the middle of a Republican civil war.  None.  The instant they try they will be turned into the scapegoat.  

 

[ewen21]

Just last month in this forum several posters insisted there was no crisis at the border. There's your problem.

 

A vast majority of democrats not long ago refused to believe there was an issue. It was more about Trump and his "racial bias"

 

Funny thing is, what about Africans and Asians? How come they have to go the a process these people from south of our border don't?

Think about that one for a minute

[Badsmerf]

Trump would have been impeached 20 years ago, times have changed... The Mueller report didn't have a smoking gun to link Russia and the Trump campaign... but let's not forget what the investigation was about.

 

It started in regard to how Russia interfered in our election.... Something Trump has completely dismissed and folded to Putin over and over. There was serious concern that people in the Trump campaign were involved, but Mueller wasn't able to prove it. Plenty of wrongdoing was uncovered, including an abominable campaign finance violation. It wasn't a swing and a miss, it just showed Trump either got away with conspiring with Russia or there was no there there. I'm not convinced Roger Stone and Paul Manafort didn't cover up and lie about what they did, but there is no way to prove it unless Russia supports the investigation.

 

The party leadership, which is what I look at when making blanket "democrat" arguments, is not fixated on impeachment. The election is next year, and if they win that, Trump is gone anyway. That has been Pelosi and Schumers message for a long time. Individual Congress members can say whatever they want, it doesn't speak for the whole party. Same thing goes with the GOP when someone says "consensual rape" exists.

[Badsmerf]

Just last month in this forum several posters insisted there was no crisis at the border. There's your problem.

 

A vast majority of democrats not long ago refused to believe there was an issue. It was more about Trump and his "racial bias"

 

Funny thing is, what about Africans and Asians? How come they have to go the a process these people from south of our border don't?

Think about that one for a minute

Problem /=/ Crisis. Trump was globally criticized for his stance against accepting Syrian refugees. If Republicans wanted support from Dems they would include provisions to help dreamers. Bills like the one Graham just wrote are political posturing. They know it isn't viable, and never expect it to get voted on. Include dreamer protection, and put more money into processing at the border and I bet democrats like Doug Jones and Joe Tester climb aboard.

[Craig Arko]

Here’s the thing about impeachment: if Trump is removed you get Pence. Is that to be considered an improvement?

 

They both need to be voted out. Make America America again.

[ewen21]

Why would the Dems want to do that? Is the key to GOP healing the inclusion of Democrats?

 

Trumps plan, by the way, was also criticized by many Republicans.

 

I believe you missed the point. There is no sane reason why the Democrats would get in the middle of a Republican civil war. None. The instant they try they will be turned into the scapegoat.

Who cares about partisanship? Put out a plan that works and it doesn't matter what side of the aisle it comes from.

 

Again, two different plans are being presented and neither come from anyone in the house majority. That's just a fact

[ewen21]

Problem /=/ Crisis. Trump was globally criticized for his stance against accepting Syrian refugees. If Republicans wanted support from Dems they would include provisions to help dreamers. Bills like the one Graham just wrote are political posturing. They know it isn't viable, and never expect it to get voted on. Include dreamer protection, and put more money into processing at the border and I bet democrats like Doug Jones and Joe Tester climb aboard.

You don't know enough about the situation. You haven't done the reading. I presented plenty of links with information coming from Homeland Security AND two large editorials, one from the NY Times and other from the Atlantic. Both widely known as left of center publications.

 

You want to say it's not a crisis, but a problem. OK whatever. I won't say "crisis"

You seem more hung up on the dialogue around the issue than actually pursuing information regarding the issue. Then you scream RACISM and run away

[ewen21]

Here’s the thing about impeachment: if Trump is removed you get Pence. Is that to be considered an improvement?

 

They both need to be voted out. Make America America again.

The thing about impeachment is you need to try the president for impeachable offenses.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Who cares about partisanship? Put out a plan that works and it doesn't matter what side of the aisle it comes from.

Again, two different plans are being presented and neither come from anyone in the house majority. That's just a fact

 

Nothing a house majority signs get through the Senate much less the president.  It is pointless.

[LaBombo]

 

Problem /=/ Crisis. Trump was globally criticized for his stance against accepting Syrian refugees. If Republicans wanted support from Dems they would include provisions to help dreamers. Bills like the one Graham just wrote are political posturing. They know it isn't viable, and never expect it to get voted on. Include dreamer protection, and put more money into processing at the border and I bet democrats like Doug Jones and Joe Tester climb aboard.

 

There's some sense to the rest of what you said, but the battle over "crisis" or "not crisis" is not only over, it never existed. At least according to the revisionist Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi:

 

From her own website:  Well, let me just say this.  We have never not said that there was a crisis.  There is a humanitarian crisis at the border.

 

Of course she makes it clear in the rest of her statement that like everything else wrong with the country, it's all Republicans' fault, and she's adamant about the real crisis being the level of accommodation our nation affords foreign citizens, rather than our nation being unable (or in the case of many Democrats, unwilling) to determine who should and should not enter our country.

 

But however much or little it matters, the official Democrat word for the border is now 'crisis', and apparently was the whole time they were arguing that it was not.

[Badsmerf]

You don't know enough about the situation. You haven't done the reading. I presented plenty of links with information coming from Homeland Security AND two large editorials, one from the NY Times and other from the Atlantic. Both widely known as left of center publications.

 

You want to say it's not a crisis, but a problem. OK whatever. I won't say "crisis"

You seem more hung up on the dialogue around the issue than actually pursuing information regarding the issue. Then you scream RACISM and run away

I read your links, watched your video and read your posts. I'm not calling you ignorant. I'm suggesting you live in a partisan bubble (despite your claims otherwise) and use charged words that aren't accurate. Words matter, and there is a difference between asylum seeker, refuge, and illegal/undocumented immigrant.

 

Plus, you continuously complain people don't comment on your links or videos... but rarely do you articulate ideas or deconstruct liberal ones.

 

Anyway, the point is democrats have zero incentive to wade into the immigration mine field. Republicans have 2/3 of the government... Had the whole thing for 2y and didn't put any policy out.... and there is reason for that. It isn't productive or good strategy to pass bad legislation... like tax breaks for the rich. Republicans were under enormous pressure on that one, and it helped the Trump family.... but they paid for it in 2018, and it still polls poorly.

[Badsmerf]

There's some sense to the rest of what you said, but the battle over "crisis" or "not crisis" is not only over, it never existed. At least according to the revisionist Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi:

 

From her own website: Well, let me just say this. We have never not said that there was a crisis. There is a humanitarian crisis at the border.

 

Of course she makes it clear in the rest of her statement that like everything else wrong with the country, it's all Republicans' fault, and she's adamant about the real crisis being the level of accommodation our nation affords foreign citizens, rather than our nation being unable (or in the case of many Democrats, unwilling) to determine who should and should not enter our country.

 

But however much or little it matters, the official Democrat word for the border is now 'crisis', and apparently was the whole time they were arguing that it was not.

The humanitarian part matters... I guess I'm arguing more about the National emergency part. Outside of that I guess the wording doesn't matter. Pelosi is trying to turn the attention to the people rather than the immigration part... Kinda agreeing to disagree on where to focus. And, deflecting on immigration policy.