General politics

[Squirrel]

 

Believe it or not, the mansplaining angle occurred to me as I wrote that last post, but text in general is so gender-neutral that after a thorough and unbiased  evaluation of what I wrote, I let myself off the hook.

 

And your original post definitely applies to other situations, which in turn brings up a difficult and ongoing struggle within both parties: balancing the desire for unity with the occasional need for what I'm going to call (for lack of a better term) self-policing. 

 

One additional thought on the sexism component of political reporting...I've already cast my vote for HuffPo's motivation being ideology rather than sexism. But one area that I think women might be a little more guilty of passive sexism toward other women is with regard to the type of question being asked of candidates.

 

Not all bias is with malicious intent. But if you're going to ask female candidates about things like balancing career with parenting and marriage, ask the male candidates too.

I hope you know I'm mostly playing with you. Although I couldn't completely deny that there might be some subconscious indignation going on.

[LaBombo]

 

I hope you know I'm mostly playing with you. Although I couldn't completely deny that there might be some subconscious indignation going on.

 

"Of course I know that. After all, you're an extremely rational and fair-minded person", he said as he turned to go, adding "... for a woman." under his breath.

 

There was a sudden clatter from the neighboring room and he instinctively lunged for the door, fumbling for his car key as he ran.

[PseudoSABR]

 

It's definitely true that there's no mutual exclusivity here. HuffPo's motives could be purely political without those motives diminishing the concerns over AK's alleged Jekyll/Hyde thing.

 

As a related aside, it seems worth mentioning that while there was ample evidence even before Trump that being a bad boss is a worrisome quality in a president, Klobuchar's disgruntled former employees would seem at first blush a more manageable liability than some of the baggage being toted into race by the other runners.

Agreed.  If true--it's not a major liability esp. compared to say what the Clintons and Trump brought to the campaign.  Though it could up-end any effort to frame herself as a champion of the working class, should her opponents attempt to exploit that angle.  

[ashbury]

"Of course I know that. After all, you're an extremely rational and fair-minded person", he said as he turned to go, adding "... for a woman." under his breath.

.

There was a sudden clatter from the neighboring room and he instinctively lunged for the door, fumbling for his car key as he ran.

This seems related to the same death-wish that causes white college moths to be irresistibly drawn to the forbidden flame of putting on blackface.

[PseudoSABR]

I know very little about him, but there's been some buzz about this South Bend, Indiana mayor (Pete Buttigieg) running for president.   I found him rather impressive from this interview.

 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-indiana-mayor-pete-buttigieg-believes-hed-make-a-good-president

[Vanimal46]

Bernie announces he will run for President, again. Making him one of 75,000 Democrats announcing their intent to run for President.

[Squirrel]

 

Bernie announces he will run for President, again. Making him one of 75,000 Democrats announcing their intent to run for President.

All I said when I saw that was 'Ugh'

[Badsmerf]

Biden, Beto, and Harris are the front runners imo. Just a matter of time before Beto and Biden get in the race.

[Vanimal46]

All I said when I saw that was 'Ugh'

Same. We've heard enough from Bern to last a lifetime.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

So women can't have sexist views against women? Labombo? I get that isn't your whole point, but that argument falls flat. It sounds to me like she isn't a very nice person, and I bet many in Congress are similar.

That's my point. I'm not defending Klobuchar for being an ass to her aides. She shouldn't do that, full stop.

 

But, just off the top of my head, I know Biden was a real ass to his staff. That outrage lasted all of 30 seconds before everyone forgot about it because we all love ol' Joe.

 

I suspect staff mistreatment is all too common in Washington... so why are we focusing on Klobuchar so intently? I'm not absolving her of the responsibility to be a decent person but it's triggers the skeptic in me that it's such a Big Deal when she does it, yet we turn away when men do it.

[TheLeviathan]

 

All I said when I saw that was 'Ugh'

 

He's going to make it very hard for people like Harris and Buttigieg to get off the ground.  And those are the people the party should be beta testing as candidates.

[Squirrel]

 

He's going to make it very hard for people like Harris and Buttigieg to get off the ground.  And those are the people the party should be beta testing as candidates.

Well, and I've already seen some Harris bashing already from the Bernie supporter sector ... sigh

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well, and I've already seen some Harris bashing already from the Bernie supporter sector ... sigh

The biggest gripe I have about Harris, like Kloubuchar, is that she's a former prosecutor.  And I think that's fair criticism. 

[PseudoSABR]

What don't people like about Sanders?  His policy? His demeanor? His supporters?  He's authentic, and basically gave birth to mainstream socialism. 

 

 

 

 

[Squirrel]

 

What don't people like about Sanders?  His policy? His demeanor? His supporters?  He's authentic, and basically gave birth to mainstream socialism. 

Yes, his demeanor, yes his supporters. And I don't think he's all that authentic, actually. I think he's about Bernie first. I think he's fine as a voice to push certain issues, but I think he's a really bad candidate. I get the feeling that I'm being yelled at and 'told' what I need to think and do with Bernie.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Yes, his demeanor, yes his supporters. And I don't think he's all that authentic, actually. I think he's about Bernie first. I think he's fine as a voice to push certain issues, but I think he's a really bad candidate. I get the feeling that I'm being yelled at and 'told' what I need to think and do with Bernie.

I guess we just have really different takes on the man.  I don't see the pendanticness or the self-interest, like at all. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

What don't people like about Sanders?  His policy? His demeanor? His supporters?  He's authentic, and basically gave birth to mainstream socialism. 

 

He's 77 among other things. 

[Vanimal46]

His supporters on social media may be worse than the BeyHive - Beyonce backers for those that don't know the term. I agree 100% with Carole. He's the hippy grandpa that talks down to you that we've been doing things wrong forever.

[Squirrel]

 

I guess we just have really different takes on the man.  I don't see the pendanticness or the self-interest, like at all. 

Bernie has been in Congress for 30 years ... 30. He's prided himself in being outside the parties, which is fine, I have no issues if he wants to be an independent. But he also couldn't work with others to get anything done because he doesn't really know how to compromise ... it was all or nothing. So ... now he wants to be president. But he's an independent and knows he has to be a member of one of the two major parties in order to gain any real consideration, so he joins the Democratic party ... just to run. If that's not self-serving I don't know what is. And then his supporters are angry that he doesn't get the same support ... it's because he's not really a Democrat and eschewed even being one for all those years in Congress. Why should Democrats feel comfortable supporting him ... just because he tells us we should? Where has he been all these years? Yes, he votes with the Democrats on many issues, but he really has failed in all that time in building strong working networks with others, especially within the party. For someone there for 30 yrs ... that's a lifer ... and he has really very little to show for it, imo. And I don't think it's the Democratic Party's fault for not building those networks with him as he's the one who wanted nothing to do with the them and wanted to remain independent.

 

That said, I don't mind some, if not most, of his ideas and stances on issues. But I don't like his delivery ... I think it's a huge turn off to those that might otherwise maybe be persuaded and a big turn off to those that are more centric. His delivery becomes a detriment to other candidates in how he goes after them. He still is an independent but calling himself a Democrat just to run for president. That is where I have difficulties with his ... authenticity.

[TheLeviathan]

I may have crafted as many bills that passed Congress as Bernie has.

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, and I've already seen some Harris bashing already from the Bernie supporter sector ... sigh

Kamala Harris' actions as prosecutor and attorney general are indefensible.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I may have crafted as many bills that passed Congress as Bernie has.

Senator Flake, is that you?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Yes, his demeanor, yes his supporters. And I don't think he's all that authentic, actually. I think he's about Bernie first. I think he's fine as a voice to push certain issues, but I think he's a really bad candidate. I get the feeling that I'm being yelled at and 'told' what I need to think and do with Bernie.

I know what you mean about “authentic,” but I disagree. I mean, Trump is authentic (except when he’s reading speeches off the Teleprompter). Authenticity can come in any number of flavors.

 

That said, I know what you mean. Bernie won’t win the Have a Beer With the Candidate contest. He’s not a fresh face. He’s from the most pure, liberal state in the Union. Personally, I believe in most his positions. His supporters didn’t cost Hillary the election (IMO). Its hard to know what the 2020 intra-party primary warfare will look like, or if his team will be the nastiest. I highly doubt he wins the bid. I liked Bernie last time but am playing wait-and-see this time. I, I, I...

 

Did I mention, I know what you mean?

[PseudoSABR]

 

I know what you mean about “authentic,” but I disagree. I mean, Trump is authentic (except when he’s reading speeches off the Teleprompter). Authenticity can come in any number of flavors.

That said, I know what you mean. Bernie won’t win the Have a Beer With the Candidate contest. He’s not a fresh face. He’s from the most pure, liberal state in the Union. Personally, I believe in most his positions. His supporters didn’t cost Hillary the election (IMO). Its hard to know what the 2020 intra-party primary warfare will look like, or if his team will be the nastiest. I highly doubt he wins the bid. I liked Bernie last time but am playing wait-and-see this time. I, I, I...

Did I mention, I know what you mean?

This is where I am.  I'm willing to let the man and process play out; I have no loyalty to the man, but he still kinda seems the most real messenger for what I'm looking for.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Bernie has been in Congress for 30 years ... 30. He's prided himself in being outside the parties, which is fine, I have no issues if he wants to be an independent. But he also couldn't work with others to get anything done because he doesn't really know how to compromise ... it was all or nothing. So ... now he wants to be president. But he's an independent and knows he has to be a member of one of the two major parties in order to gain any real consideration, so he joins the Democratic party ... just to run. If that's not self-serving I don't know what is. And then his supporters are angry that he doesn't get the same support ... it's because he's not really a Democrat and eschewed even being one for all those years in Congress. Why should Democrats feel comfortable supporting him ... just because he tells us we should? Where has he been all these years? Yes, he votes with the Democrats on many issues, but he really has failed in all that time in building strong working networks with others, especially within the party. For someone there for 30 yrs ... that's a lifer ... and he has really very little to show for it, imo. And I don't think it's the Democratic Party's fault for not building those networks with him as he's the one who wanted nothing to do with the them and wanted to remain independent.

 

That said, I don't mind some, if not most, of his ideas and stances on issues. But I don't like his delivery ... I think it's a huge turn off to those that might otherwise maybe be persuaded and a big turn off to those that are more centric. His delivery becomes a detriment to other candidates in how he goes after them. He still is an independent but calling himself a Democrat just to run for president. That is where I have difficulties with his ... authenticity.

This is a very fair, and personal take.  But it is not Bernie's fault that the Democrats have been Republican-lite for years..  You have a right wing party, and your party is just a bit more palatably left to distinguish yourself and your party, but you're really pro-wealth, pro-corporate, pro-war, pro-globalization.  That's been the ****ing Democrats, **** that establishment.  Really.  Let's pay attention to what has happened in politics, and who benefits from running.

 

For my personal experience, Bernie was the first person in politics to speak with passion and confidence what I actually feel/felt.  That he's waded in bull**** for 30 years should count for him not against him.  And the Democratic party has probably been corrupt for decades, that's how you get the Clintons as the candidate, or whatever thinned out field to pave the way for Gore/Kerry or whomever.  There's been literally one liberal Senator in the Senate for decades (maybe Warren).   Liberalism, much less socialism, has been a dirty word, until Bernie ****ing Sanders.  I don't know that he deserves the nominimation, but he has the druthers to actually represent what I believe.  Rather than a bunch of wallstreet candidates who play the liberal populism card.  

 

I fear too many are being suckers to the anti-Bernie-bros card, and will settle for Clinton redux, and we will F-ing lose.   I'm actually super disheartened by the cynicism of this thread; please, can we no longer call this board a bastion of liberalism, because it is not.  That's not an insult, but this has truly been a moderate and reasonable place to discuss politics, notwithstanding the current president. 

 

Again, I felt I had ZERO voice before Bernie.  Maybe that's nothing to you, but to me that's the definition of authenticity.  Without Bernie, there would be NO talk of medicare-for-all, taxes on the wealthy.  We should stop our bull**** character attack, and appreciate what his candidacy in 2016 provided even if he may not the candidate.

 

/hattip Mike, he is old; and so may not be the best candidate/messenger for his platform. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Thanks Pseudo! Following on that, i think people need to hear Medicare-for-all, progressive taxation, etc. I understand “free college” sounds a little sketchy, even to my ears, but Bernie needs to be in the race to talk about these things. I mean, Greenspan was floating the idea of nationalizing banks during the banking crisis after the 2008 campaign. These “socialist” ideas are not as radical as the media talkers would have us believe.

 

From here in early 2019, it would seem to be a nail biter if Bernie was the nominee versus Trump. But Trump is very unpopular. And again, Bernie is not likely anyway. But let’s hear this out.

[Squirrel]

Well I’m out of this discussion because apparently my opinion amounts to ‘buying in and selling out.’ Thanks, all.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Well I’m out of this discussion because apparently my opinion amounts to ‘buying in and selling out.’ Thanks, all.

Who the heck said that?  I totally value your take.  We need to quit trying to take out-roads when discussing things upon things we disagree!

[Musk21]

I see a lot of people saying (not necessarily in this thread) that Bernie can't win the nomination, but I'm not so sure. His support and money raising capability is strong. And with such a large field, who's to say that he doesn't win a few of those early primaries with so many votes split between all of the other candidates, propelling him to the nomination?

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

I see a lot of people saying (not necessarily in this thread) that Bernie can't win the nomination, but I'm not so sure. His support and money raising capability is strong. And with such a large field, who's to say that he doesn't win a few of those early primaries with so many votes split between all of the other candidates, propelling him to the nomination?

 

Do they mean the nomination or the Presidency?  I would say he has the inside track on the nomination given the current field for the very reasons you lay out.  

 

The Presidency?  I question how he reverses any of the outcomes that Hillary produced.