General politics

[ashbury]

Grass roots work takes a TON of time, time away from your other job (if you are a MN legislator, for example), or your other work in office. 

Yes, it definitely caters to a group who... well, aren't ordinary citizens simply seeking to take part in public life.

[Mike Sixel]

I think this is an instructive sentence, for both strategy and long term EC implications:

 

The one category where Democrats made no net gains — at least as of writing this — was in “Pure Rural” districts.

 

If they can't pick up any rural seats in a mid term....can they ever do so in a meaningful way? Can they win those votes for POTUS?

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-suburbs-all-kinds-of-suburbs-delivered-the-house-to-democrats/

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Medicare, medicaid, and health care in general......those should always be a big part of the message, imo.

 

They should be reminding people every few months that the GOP wants to cut those programs, and use messaging throughout the next two years to keep that thought firmly in people's minds. Not just during campaign season, and not through boring policy speeches.

For sure. On a personal level, every other issue goes out the window when you have a health scare.

Unless you have A+ insurance, which the vast majority don't, we're all potentially one catastrophic illness/injury away from losing everything we've ever worked for.

I don't think enough people realize that. That's the point that Democrats need to hammer incessantly.

Nearly every political ad should show what it looks like when a good, hardworking family loses everything trying to pay for a medical crisis.

Every rally should have those people on stage.

Have insurance experts on hand at town halls and meet and greets that can explain to people where their insurance policy leaves them vulnerable.

[gunnarthor]

 

I think this is an instructive sentence, for both strategy and long term EC implications:

 

The one category where Democrats made no net gains — at least as of writing this — was in “Pure Rural” districts.

 

If they can't pick up any rural seats in a mid term....can they ever do so in a meaningful way? Can they win those votes for POTUS?

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-suburbs-all-kinds-of-suburbs-delivered-the-house-to-democrats/

Rural areas still haven't gotten over the 2008 market crash and our side generally doesn't seem to care. I've read tons of liberals say things like 'farming is dead.' I harped on this back in 2016 before the election. While the Dems have certainly tried to make in-roads to the white educated woman they haven't come up wtih anything yet for rural America so I'm not surprised they didn't make any gains there. I really hope the DFL starts working on that in MN. I think Feehan would've been a good congressman for the 1st district down here. I think he was a smart, progressive voice that would have worked to find solutions. But he lost by a fraction of votes so instead voters get Hagedorn who won't do anything but blame immigrants. -sigh-

[stringer bell]

 

Rural areas still haven't gotten over the 2008 market crash and our side generally doesn't seem to care. I've read tons of liberals say things like 'farming is dead.' I harped on this back in 2016 before the election. While the Dems have certainly tried to make in-roads to the white educated woman they haven't come up wtih anything yet for rural America so I'm not surprised they didn't make any gains there. I really hope the DFL starts working on that in MN. I think Feehan would've been a good congressman for the 1st district down here. I think he was a smart, progressive voice that would have worked to find solutions. But he lost by a fraction of votes so instead voters get Hagedorn who won't do anything but blame immigrants. -sigh-

Agree about Feehan. I suspect Hagedorn doesn't have a long shelf life and if Feehan wants to try again next time, I believe he has a great shot to unseat him. 

 

Rural voters are probably socially more conservative and vote Republican because of "God, guns and gays". I'm generalizing of course, but I mostly find that to be true.

 

If you are in a district where both parties have a chance, it's great to have a good candidate. I don't think it was emphasized enough that Democrats recruited extremely well this year and brought in a lot of candidates who could win in +5R districts.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

Many of you likely don’t watch Rachel Madow, but I do every so often. I find it to be ... intelligent, clever, thought provoking political entertainment. Last night she interviewed Lauren Underwood who flipped a seat in Illinois from a 4-termer Republican. A Democrat held that seat for a term prior, and before that, it was the seat held by Dennis Hastert. If you’ve lived in Illinois, you know that name, and probably why a Democrat won that seat after him. But being a ‘typical red’ district it went back. Anyway, she was very interesting. A nurse, never held political office, 32 yrs old, African American ... not only did she flip this district 51-49%, but she won the primary ... against 6 other opponents ... with 57% of the vote. When asked how she did this, she said their plan was to just go everywhere and talk to everyone. Her campaign was very grass roots and very personal. And Levi, you’ll like this one ... she said she went out to farms and fields and talked to farmers and people in very small rural areas, where people told her that they hadn’t been visited by any politician on either side for years. This is why it was such an upset ... her campaign was so off anyone’s radar and thought that Hultgren was a shoe in for re-election.

That's almost literally unbelievable. Thanks for sharing. 

[Squirrel]

That's almost literally unbelievable. Thanks for sharing.

 

Here’s the clip of her interview last night. Democrats need to take a big page out of her book.

 

That, and she just reeks of sincerity.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VxzyIRtIkSs

[Mike Sixel]

 

Rural areas still haven't gotten over the 2008 market crash and our side generally doesn't seem to care. I've read tons of liberals say things like 'farming is dead.' I harped on this back in 2016 before the election. While the Dems have certainly tried to make in-roads to the white educated woman they haven't come up wtih anything yet for rural America so I'm not surprised they didn't make any gains there. I really hope the DFL starts working on that in MN. I think Feehan would've been a good congressman for the 1st district down here. I think he was a smart, progressive voice that would have worked to find solutions. But he lost by a fraction of votes so instead voters get Hagedorn who won't do anything but blame immigrants. -sigh-

 

Or, maybe, they just don't have much chance in pure rural areas, and should build on their strengths and not spend huge resources where they can't win. Hillary's mistake was not fighting for places should could win....which is not the same thing I'm arguing at all.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Here’s the clip of her interview last night. Democrats need to take a big page out of her book.

That, and she just reeks of sincerity.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VxzyIRtIkSs

 

Authentic can cut through a lot of noise.  She seems to have that - glad she won!

[Badsmerf]

I haven't caught up on all three 538 articles. I have a long weekend ahead of me...

[gunnarthor]

 

Or, maybe, they just don't have much chance in pure rural areas, and should build on their strengths and not spend huge resources where they can't win. Hillary's mistake was not fighting for places should could win....which is not the same thing I'm arguing at all.

But they can win there though. In 2016, Walz, Peterson and Nolan all won Trump districts. For decades, the farmers were the backbone of the DFL in MN. Heck, Wellstone had strong support from rural areas in western MN and the iron range when he knocked off Boschwitz in 1990. If the Dems had a plan to improve rural economies and/or punish predatory lending that the banks got away with, they could get these voters back.

 

I don't agree that these voters are just guns/gods/gays voters. First off, in 1992, we were hearing that Clinton would take away guns and he still won the majority of rural counties. Most conservatives have given up on the gay thing altogether. We straight up won that issue. And the god thing is patronizing in that it suggests Democratic voters don't have faith.

 

The one issue that I do think still hurts us is abortion where we do see a lot of single issue voters but outside of that, we're really not far off. We just need to improve messaging. We can and should win these counties if we truly think that progressive policies can improve everyone's life.

[biggentleben]

In reading the rural thing, I'm not in agreement there at all. A Democrat damned near won the governorship in South Dakota! While the folks we send to DC have often been able to be the best politician, regardless of party, governors have almost always been from one party. A handicapped Democratic candidate who was open about his positive relationship with the reservations (something most politicians won't touch with a ten foot pole) won him votes from a lot of farmers.

 

Of course, a flat-out lie by his competition released Friday before the election in ads and multiple papers gave him little time to refute, and it was blasted all over social media and rallied those farmers who did not do the research. Many who found out afterward that the ads were a lie were infuriated and have said they would have shifted their votes. That's older farmers around the coffee shop, let alone the younger ones who do more research on the topics.

 

Rural markets can be won by someone who is authentic, genuinely has rural concerns in mind (really all they'd need to do is mention how Trump's policies have killed economics around the farm with a few easy-to-understand numbers, and it'd go over very well as these folks have lived it), and is willing to admit their faults. One of the biggest feedbacks that folks gave on Obama here that didn't like him was that he came off as elitist. While you and I may appreciate his ability to orate, more down-to-earth speaking has its place as well.

[TheLeviathan]

Since I'm not in the upper Midwest I'm curious....did the Dems run ads about Trump's horrible tariff policies and the impact on farms?

 

That seemed like easy money.

[biggentleben]

 

Since I'm not in the upper Midwest I'm curious....did the Dems run ads about Trump's horrible tariff policies and the impact on farms?

 

That seemed like easy money.

 

With my streaming, I saw very little of the TV ads, more of the Facebook/Twitter memes that have become part of the modern campaign.

 

However, the fact that the new SD governor is nicknamed "Candy" in DC because of how often she's been called out for playing on her phone during committee hearings was out there quite a bit.

[Mr. Brooks]

Since I'm not in the upper Midwest I'm curious....did the Dems run ads about Trump's horrible tariff policies and the impact on farms?

 

That seemed like easy money.

I don't remember seeing a single ad regarding that issue.

 

I'm not sure it'd matter though.

As I've posted before, there was a pretty revealing article I read a while back. A dozen or more farmers were featured, and while most of them acknowledged that the tariffs were killing them, every one of them said they'd still support Trump.

[Mr. Brooks]

But they can win there though. In 2016, Walz, Peterson and Nolan all won Trump districts. For decades, the farmers were the backbone of the DFL in MN. Heck, Wellstone had strong support from rural areas in western MN and the iron range when he knocked off Boschwitz in 1990. If the Dems had a plan to improve rural economies and/or punish predatory lending that the banks got away with, they could get these voters back.

 

I don't agree that these voters are just guns/gods/gays voters. First off, in 1992, we were hearing that Clinton would take away guns and he still won the majority of rural counties. Most conservatives have given up on the gay thing altogether. We straight up won that issue. And the god thing is patronizing in that it suggests Democratic voters don't have faith.

 

The one issue that I do think still hurts us is abortion where we do see a lot of single issue voters but outside of that, we're really not far off. We just need to improve messaging. We can and should win these counties if we truly think that progressive policies can improve everyone's life.

Well said. There may be rural areas in the deep south, and perhaps the mountain west, that'll never go blue any time soon. But that's not the case in the Midwest. Plenty of rural districts in the midwest have previously been Democratic strongholds.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't remember seeing a single ad regarding that issue.

I'm not sure it'd matter though.
As I've posted before, there was a pretty revealing article I read a while back. A dozen or more farmers were featured, and while most of them acknowledged that the tariffs were killing them, every one of them said they'd still support Trump.

 

Perhaps hearing how bad they were, plus an alternative, would sway them?

 

I just think playing to that issue is a foot in the door with a lot of people who were blue voters not that long ago.

[Mr. Brooks]

Perhaps hearing how bad they were, plus an alternative, would sway them?

 

I just think playing to that issue is a foot in the door with a lot of people who were blue voters not that long ago.

Yeah, probably couldn't hurt.

Farmers fascination with a guy like Trump has never made sense to me from the start. I'm not sure the man even knows what a farm is. But, they love him. I don't get it.

[Badsmerf]

We've focused a lot on democrats winning back seats. It is justifiable because of how far the gop has gone off the rails. I'd like to ask how to get the gop back on track. How do we get this party and their voters to be sane again?

 

Trump is absolutely not the only extreme voice in this party. We can't allow this party to continue to degrade and erode our country.

[gunnarthor]

 

Since I'm not in the upper Midwest I'm curious....did the Dems run ads about Trump's horrible tariff policies and the impact on farms?

 

That seemed like easy money.

Nope. Most of the Feehan ads I saw touted his military experience and the anti-Hagedorn ads I saw talked about taking away healthcare and his ties to special interest.

No mention of bad GOP policies at all and no mention of family separation at all. I thought both would have had some impact here but clearly the Dems wanted a united message (healthcare). Not sure if that was the right strategy. Maybe it was.

[biggentleben]

Some very interesting discussion on NPR's "Up First" this week following the election, and also on some local radio programs, regarding post-voting polls and feelings. Essentially, running on Trump wouldn't have helped Democrats. In large part, "progressives" struggled in this election in red or purple areas. Those who were more moderate and were focused on their individual area's key pressure points fared much better, even if they didn't win. That is something that has been requested of the other side for years, but perhaps if both sides can learn to run candidates that moderate rather than further divide along with focusing on real issues that matter to their voters, not talking points on various cable news networks, there could be a huge change in our engagement from voters overall, especially from those who are younger and will be affected by the policies set forth by the persons being elected.

[Mike Sixel]

 

But they can win there though. In 2016, Walz, Peterson and Nolan all won Trump districts. For decades, the farmers were the backbone of the DFL in MN. Heck, Wellstone had strong support from rural areas in western MN and the iron range when he knocked off Boschwitz in 1990. If the Dems had a plan to improve rural economies and/or punish predatory lending that the banks got away with, they could get these voters back.

 

I don't agree that these voters are just guns/gods/gays voters. First off, in 1992, we were hearing that Clinton would take away guns and he still won the majority of rural counties. Most conservatives have given up on the gay thing altogether. We straight up won that issue. And the god thing is patronizing in that it suggests Democratic voters don't have faith.

 

The one issue that I do think still hurts us is abortion where we do see a lot of single issue voters but outside of that, we're really not far off. We just need to improve messaging. We can and should win these counties if we truly think that progressive policies can improve everyone's life.

 

The world is a very different place than it was in the 90s, or even ten years ago......very. 

 

The democrats won zero seats they didn't hold in pure rural districts, in a mid term election. Zero. Trying to win those areas isn't as efficient or effective as trying to win suburbs by more votes, or whatever (note, I'm talking statewide or national races here.....of course they should try to win congressional seats or local races......).

[Mike Sixel]

 

In reading the rural thing, I'm not in agreement there at all. A Democrat damned near won the governorship in South Dakota! While the folks we send to DC have often been able to be the best politician, regardless of party, governors have almost always been from one party. A handicapped Democratic candidate who was open about his positive relationship with the reservations (something most politicians won't touch with a ten foot pole) won him votes from a lot of farmers.

 

Of course, a flat-out lie by his competition released Friday before the election in ads and multiple papers gave him little time to refute, and it was blasted all over social media and rallied those farmers who did not do the research. Many who found out afterward that the ads were a lie were infuriated and have said they would have shifted their votes. That's older farmers around the coffee shop, let alone the younger ones who do more research on the topics.

 

Rural markets can be won by someone who is authentic, genuinely has rural concerns in mind (really all they'd need to do is mention how Trump's policies have killed economics around the farm with a few easy-to-understand numbers, and it'd go over very well as these folks have lived it), and is willing to admit their faults. One of the biggest feedbacks that folks gave on Obama here that didn't like him was that he came off as elitist. While you and I may appreciate his ability to orate, more down-to-earth speaking has its place as well.

 

then why did they win zero races in congressional seats they didn't hold? I mean, what happened happened......as I said above, the democrats should try to win every race, but if you are a POTUS candidate, should you really spend time trying to get voters that no democrat can seem to actually get?

[Mike Sixel]

 

We've focused a lot on democrats winning back seats. It is justifiable because of how far the gop has gone off the rails. I'd like to ask how to get the gop back on track. How do we get this party and their voters to be sane again?

Trump is absolutely not the only extreme voice in this party. We can't allow this party to continue to degrade and erode our country.

 

I was a GOP volunteer and paid employee for years....but the party swung to right in the 80s and 90s and never looked back. Tim Pawlenty once gave a speech that gas taxes were the only tax we can all get behind, and he was booed. That was the end of gas tax increases in MN, which is why your infrastructure is crumbling....They've spent decades saying government is evil, teachers are over paid, and taxes are worse than sin. That's not easily reversible.....

[biggentleben]

 

then why did they win zero races in congressional seats they didn't hold? I mean, what happened happened......as I said above, the democrats should try to win every race, but if you are a POTUS candidate, should you really spend time trying to get voters that no democrat can seem to actually get?

 

They did get them, though. Just because they didn't win does not mean that huge strides were not made.

 

When you're trying to lose weight, after losing 5 pounds, when you lose just 2 the next month, do you give up because it's not the 5 anymore, or do you keep at it with the long-term goal in mind?

[Mike Sixel]

 

They did get them, though. Just because they didn't win does not mean that huge strides were not made.

 

When you're trying to lose weight, after losing 5 pounds, when you lose just 2 the next month, do you give up because it's not the 5 anymore, or do you keep at it with the long-term goal in mind?

 

that's literally not the same thing.....more like, when trying to lose weight, and eating less works better for you than working out, should you work out more, or continue eating less?

 

when trying to win an election, should you try to increase your votes where people like you, or try to convince people that haven't voted for your party in decades to switch sides? Remember, I'm talking about state wide and POTUS here.....

[Mr. Brooks]

that's literally not the same thing.....more like, when trying to lose weight, and eating less works better for you than working out, should you work out more, or continue eating less?

 

when trying to win an election, should you try to increase your votes where people like you, or try to convince people that haven't voted for your party in decades to switch sides? Remember, I'm talking about state wide and POTUS here.....

But it hasn't been decades for every rural area.

Many rural areas in the Midwest have voted Democrat as recently as 2,4, or 6 years ago.

[TheLeviathan]

 

But it hasn't been decades for every rural area.
Many rural areas in the Midwest have voted Democrat as recently as 2,4, or 6 years ago.

 

And to add to this....these voters are also in some of the most tightly contested states with the most electoral votes.

 

So....there is a ton of upside in at least trying.

[Mike Sixel]

https://www.vox.com/2017/7/24/15913826/machiavelli-donald-trump-democracy-america-erica-benner

 

What I've been saying....

[Mr. Brooks]

I agree completely. The divide in partisanship and inequality can't continue much longer at it's current pace, that's for sure.