JFK

[Badsmerf]

Was Lee Harvey Oswald a pawn? Will all the files ever be released?

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, at all.

But, the one thing I can never get over is Jack Ruby.

How is a mob connected thug able to be where he was, when he was, with a gun? How is that possible if everything is on the up and up?

Also, why would he even want to be there?

[drjim]

No and no.

[Craig Arko]

They’re just trying to figure out how to blame Obama.

[drjim]

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, at all.

But, the one thing I can never get over is Jack Ruby.

How is a mob connected thug able to be where he was, when he was, with a gun? How is that possible if everything is on the up and up?

Also, why would he even want to be there?

I won't speculate on motive, but it was a different, alien world regarding security, as shown with having the President drive in an open car along a publicly posted route.

[Mr. Brooks]

I won't speculate on motive, but it was a different, alien world regarding security, as shown with having the President drive in an open car along a publicly posted route.

The lax security could have been intentional, on both fronts. In fact, that was kind of my point.

 

I refuse to accept that at the height of the cold war, the world was considered some utopian place where security wasn't necessary.

[drjim]

The lax security could have been intentional, on both fronts. In fact, that was kind of my point.

 

I refuse to accept that at the height of the cold war, the world was considered some utopian place where security wasn't necessary.

Certainly possible. I do think this sequence of events changed security going forward. I've generally accepted that Ruby was a random dude that had his own reasons.

 

My overall thought on the JFK assassination was that it was such a shocking thing that people have wanted it so badly to be something bigger and more meaningful than it was. For any type of meaningful conspiracy or coverup to last this long with no one saying anything seems completely impossible.

 

The "coverup" such that it was, and why documents aren't being released, seem pretty obviously connected to covert operations the government was engaging in at the time.

[Bark's Lounge]

This is coming from personal experience, no offense is meant:

 

The people I meet or know in daily life or in personal relationships who are conspiracy theorists, are not reliable, they have baggage, and they can be a pain in the ass a great amount of time.

 

Until I am proven wrong, it is a bunch of BS. I don't think I will be proven wrong.

[Mr. Brooks]

Certainly possible. I do think this sequence of events changed security going forward. I've generally accepted that Ruby was a random dude that had his own reasons.

 

My overall thought on the JFK assassination was that it was such a shocking thing that people have wanted it so badly to be something bigger and more meaningful than it was. For any type of meaningful conspiracy or coverup to last this long with no one saying anything seems completely impossible.

 

The "coverup" such that it was, and why documents aren't being released, seem pretty obviously connected to covert operations the government was engaging in at the time.

For the record, I think it's by far most likely that Oswald acted alone. But the Ruby thing is what keeps me from being 100% sure.

[USAFChief]

For the record, I think it's by far most likely that Oswald acted alone. But the Ruby thing is what keeps me from being 100% sure.

For sure it's troubling. I will only say that as far as Ruby being able to get at Oswald...times were different. But why? That's always bothered me. Why Ruby?

[Badsmerf]

I can't help but be intrigued by all of this. Even now, 50+ years later, people are spinning new ideas. Even the Russians thought it was a conspiracy bank then! I mean, this has to be the most talked about, most known conspiracy theory in history. There are so many things to question, at such a unique time in history. I can't help but be entertained, with sincere sadness to the Kennedy family.

[Sarah]

It is interesting to wonder if we will ever know the truth on this - for those from Minnesota, I always thought about the Jacob Wetterling case this way. On the 25th anniversary of his kidnapping I wondered if we would ever find out what really happened. It's been more than a year since then and it's still kind of surreal for those of us who grew up with that mystery. So never say never...

[Vanimal46]

It's going to take months, maybe years to piece together this puzzle. And who knows, maybe without the documents being held back from release, we won't be able to solve it. 

[jimmer]

It's pretty annoying that they STILL withheld documents.  Without them all, we can draw no real conclusions.

 

And one wonders.  WHY, exactly, do the intelligence agencies NOT want some documents released.

[Musk21]

 

It's pretty annoying that they STILL withheld documents.  Without them all, we can draw no real conclusions.

 

And one wonders.  WHY, exactly, do the intelligence agencies NOT want some documents released.

 

This was kind of an interesting interview between Jake Tapper and JFK assassination expert Gerald Posner, who details why they may not want some documents released:

 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/10/26/tl-foreman-jfk-assassination-jake-tapper.cnn

 

As a side note to the assassination, Jackie's iconic, blood-splattered pink suit was donated in 2003 by Caroline Kennedy to the National Archives with a prevision that it not be publicly displayed until 2103 so as not to "in any way to dishonor the memory of the late President or cause unnecessary grief or suffering to members of his family." Too bad, it would be fascinating to see it.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It's pretty annoying that they STILL withheld documents.  Without them all, we can draw no real conclusions.

 

And one wonders.  WHY, exactly, do the intelligence agencies NOT want some documents released.

 

this is what it comes down to for me... and for that matter, you have to ask why things were redacted as well.  I have a difficult time believing LHO acted alone. I have little doubt he was part of the plot. It's the scope of the plot in question. But the government was clearly hiding something... Was it incompetence, something else, or something worse?

[nicksaviking]

I guess I always figured stuff has been concealed simply for agencies and still living participants to save face. The redacted stuff probably shows incompetence, gross negligence and all kinds of despicable acts pulled by movers and shakers trying to take advantage of the vacuum created be a dead president.

 

I mean Civil Rights advocate Lyndon Johnson *maybe* being a KKK member? Yeah, plenty of folks would want that kept under wraps.

 

Perhaps Jack Ruby slipped an identified agent $100 to get near Oswald so he could shoot him? That would be redacted too, and something that sounds like a total low-level wanna-be monster move.

 

I can't imagine Ruby killing Oswald was part of a high level conspiracy. First, the conspirators would have to be pretty confident a gunshot to the gut would kill Oswald, what were the chances, 50/50 at best? Then you need to be sure a 50-year-old man dies of cancer in jail before he decides to spill his guts?

 

I mean that end game would have had be thought up at the local Jr. High locker room.

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess I always figured stuff has been concealed simply for agencies and still living participants to save face.

 

I mean Civil Rights advocate Lyndon Johnson *maybe* being a KKK member? Yeah, plenty of folks would want that kept under wraps.

 

Perhaps Jack Ruby slipped an identified agent $100 to get near Oswald so he could shoot him? That would be redacted too, and something that sounds like a total low-level wanna-be monster move.

 

I can't imagine Ruby killing Oswald was part of a high level conspiracy. First, the conspirators would have to be pretty confident a gunshot to the gut would kill Oswald, what were the chances, 50/50 at best? Then you need to be sure a 50-year-old man dies of cancer in jail before he decides to spill his guts?

 

I mean that end game would have had be thought up at the local Jr. High locker room.

Just to play devil's advocate.

Perhaps Ruby didn't actually die of cancer. Perhaps he was given a new identity in Costa Rica, and dying of cancer was his cover?

[nicksaviking]

Just to play devil's advocate.

Perhaps Ruby didn't actually die of cancer. Perhaps he was given a new identity in Costa Rica, and dying of cancer was his cover?

Then I'd say he wouldn't have fared too well down there considering his brain is available for viewing at the University of Iowa.

[drjim]

 

Then I'd say he wouldn't have fared too well down there considering his brain is available for viewing at the University of Iowa.

 

Or is it his brain?

 

[Craig Arko]

 

Or is it his brain?

 

Pretty sure it's Abby-something or other...

[Mr. Brooks]

You make light of it, but obviously if it were a conspiracy they would have provided a substitute corpse.

I'm no doctor, but I'm guessing many brains look similar enough to pass.

[Mr. Brooks]

I get its fun to make fun of all the conspiracy nuts, but our government has attempted worse conspiracies. So, we shouldn't just blindly accept everything the government says either.

[drjim]

I get its fun to make fun of all the conspiracy nuts, but our government has attempted worse conspiracies. So, we shouldn't just blindly accept everything the government says either.

Worse conspiracies than killing the President?

[Mr. Brooks]

Worse conspiracies than killing the President?

That depends on how you value life. The President is an important person, but on a human level is still just one life.

The government murdered as many as 10,000 people poisoning alcohol during Prohibition. Of course we all know about the Tuskeegee Expiriments, and multiple false flag attacks have been shown to have been proposed.

[drjim]

 

That depends on how you value life. The President is an important person, but on a human level is still just one life.
The government murdered as many as 10,000 people poisoning alcohol during Prohibition. Of course we all know about the Tuskeegee Expiriments, and multiple false flag attacks have been shown to have been proposed.

 

There have certainly been larger human tragedies undertaken by the government, but taking out a President to install someone more friendly to a specific agency or power base would shake the political system of the country in a way that none of the aforementioned human tragedies could.

[biggentleben]

I saw this thread and serious have spent ever since when I have a moment searching for the article or program where I saw this interview, but one of the people present among the press when LHO was being transferred was interviewed and talked about Ruby stepping on his toe, and that he was so vanilla to the crowd - blending in perfectly in size, build, even generally in racial background. Ruby was able to slip in among the reporters crowding in that area, giving him perfect cover, because he blended so well among them, so much so that this particular guy mentioned he didn't notice Ruby until he stepped on his toe as he stepped forward through the group and then out as LHO was brought toward where he was standing.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

There have certainly been larger human tragedies undertaken by the government, but taking out a President to install someone more friendly to a specific agency or power base would shake the political system of the country in a way that none of the aforementioned human tragedies could.

Mission accomplished.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I'm not going to pretend to solve cases or guess motives (I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists look ridiculous), but I'm pretty cynical when it comes to what government officials tell me, particularly those of that period (in readings after the fact, as I wasn't around just yet). I have no idea what more was going on with the Kennedy assassination, probably nothing, but it all seems a little too tidy.

 

Obviously, being skeptical of conspiracy theorists is healthy, too.

[ashbury]

 

I'm not going to pretend to solve cases or guess motives 

Oh, sure, you expect us to believe that?