Cubs Pitching Coach fired. Buddy of Molitor.

[old nurse]

 

I agree with your last paragraph, although I don't think anyone here has called Bosio one of the best on earth (although it wouldn't be a stretch to make that argument, if we buy the appeal to his authority of being a now former MLB pitching coach). Coaches are fired all the time. It doesn't mean they're incompetent or that there are irreconcilable differences. Of course those reasons are sometimes true, but a given firing could be a matter of scapegoating, hasty/myopic decision making on the executive level, or something else. No idea which applies to Bosio.

 

 

I think an example could be last night's ALCS game. The Astros threw a ridiculous number of breaking balls, especially after McCullers came in. Their pitching coach said afterwards that the recommendation was made by their analytics people. I think it's a matter of hiring a guy willing to convert analysis into direct strategy rather than teaching pitchers how to pitch. My impression is that while MLB pitching coaches work out kinks in guys' deliveries, they aren't really teaching mechanics. Guys who get to that level already pretty much know how to pitch.

Forgot to add. Years ago in the dark ages of baseball analytics employed by teams included using what were called advanced scouts, Those tireless souls got paid to watch baseball in a stadium on an expense account. They would chart the game and develop what was called a cook on hitters. What pitches they hit, what they couldn't. What Houston did in the ALCS was  nothing new. 

The good curveball is a pitchers best friend. A less than good one is likely to be followed by a HR trot.  Sorry someone was a stick in the mud on your reply. Good luck in your studies., except if you are going into law or politics.

 

[drjim]

That report doesn't say anywhere that it's a lowball contract.

I'd imagine that half or more of the managers in mlb make less than the $2 million per that Gardy was making by the end of his tenure.

Managers and coaches really don't get paid much in mlb.

 

Also, even if the Twins snatch up one of tbese big names as pitching coach, he won't be as high as Molitor's "lowball" offer.

[prouster]

Forgot to add. Years ago in the dark ages of baseball analytics employed by teams included using what were called advanced scouts, Those tireless souls got paid to watch baseball in a stadium on an expense account. They would chart the game and develop what was called a cook on hitters. What pitches they hit, what they couldn't. What Houston did in the ALCS was nothing new.

The good curveball is a pitchers best friend. A less than good one is likely to be followed by a HR trot. Sorry someone was a stick in the mud on your reply. Good luck in your studies., except if you are going into law or politics.

That's really interesting. Maybe we aren't as advanced as we think.

 

And yeah, my other reply was meant in good fun. Apologies if it rubbed you wrong, as it apparently did someone. And don't worry, I'm not going into law or politics. Something much less consequential.

[mike8791]

Here are a couple of backup articles that should prove interesting: 

 

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/156473190/mike-maddux-will-be-nationals-pitching-coach/

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-cubs-remain-mum-on-chris-bosio-firing-20171022-story.html

 

So what can be deduced from all this?  For one thing, Maddux's reputation as a premier pitching coach is very well established.  Most likely, he is only available because of manager's firing, not because of his tenure as Nat's pitching coach.  Secondly, here in Wrigleyville, no one seems to know the reason for Bosio's surprise dismissal.  What seems apparent is that Maddon must have some personal issues with Bosio and/or wanted his own man(Hickey or maybe Maddux) when they suddenly became available.  Time will tell, I guess.

 

What does this all have to do with the Twins now?  Well, everyone acknowledges pitching is the team's biggest weakness.  Allen was not the answer(does this mean Hickey should be disqualified as the two worked together for years in Tampa)?  The new Twins pitching coach will be a vital key in improving this weakness.  Who Falvey picks will go a long way to giving us further insight into the team's philosophy of winning.

 

Will they go with someone unproven who has potential rather than getting the best available person for the job?  This is where many of us hope the Twins are truly going in a new direction by not hiring an old teammate or rolling the dice on someone unproven, at a much lower salary, instead of best available regardless of price.  While some on this site are stressing a newer stats-oriented guy, that misses the main point, which is a stat department can always provide the necessary data, but it is the PC who translates that to on the field results.

 

A guy like Maddux is seldomly available.  How hard the Twins go after him will tell you a lot about how this organization is committed to winning a championship.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

This is the type of "small" thinking that has doomed the Twins to mediocrity.  Just because there is a Molitor-Bosio connection is scant reason for hiring this guy.  Any one want to bet that Bosio was fired the moment Theo realized Mike Maddox was available?  Remind anyone how fast Theo acted when Maddon became available.

If the Twins organization truly wanted a championship they would go after Maddox hard!  The Cubs will be all in; the Twins will go cheap and hire a second tier pitching coach.  Count on it!

It's great to say the Twins should go after these guys but the reality is that if an Epstein-led Cubs team is knocking on your door, you take the job. There's absolutely no way the Twins can compete with the North Siders in any capacity: fan base, money, organizational respect, et al.

[USAFChief]

It's great to say the Twins should go after these guys but the reality is that if an Epstein-led Cubs team is knocking on your door, you take the job. There's absolutely no way the Twins can compete with the North Siders in any capacity: fan base, money, organizational respect, et al.

I think now would be the perfect time to get started on changing this situation.

 

You can begin to change being perceived as "Small time" by no longer acting "small time."

[drjim]

 

I think now would be the perfect time to get started on changing this situation.

You can begin to change being perceived as "Small time" by no longer acting "small time."

 

Would be nice, but they aren't going to beat the Cubs at this point for this position. But I doubt they are going for the same guy anyways.

[Doomtints]

 

Guys who get to that level already pretty much know how to pitch.

 

Not true. Mark Prior is the easiest example to throw out there. Many coaches in the league recognized Prior's bad delivery, but the Cubs did not coach him into trying something new.  Instead, they rushed him to the majors as quickly as possible. As you know his career was short.

We have our own version of this in Francisco Liriano, who made the majors in spite of having a violent delivery. We got to see half a season of the most dominant pitching any of us will ever see before he blew out his arm and became mediocre. 

[drjim]

 

Not true. Mark Prior is the easiest example to throw out there. Many coaches in the league recognized Prior's bad delivery, but the Cubs did not coach him into trying something new.  Instead, they rushed him to the majors as quickly as possible. As you know his career was short.

We have our own version of this in Francisco Liriano, who made the majors in spite of having a violent delivery. We got to see half a season of the most dominant pitching any of us will ever see before he blew out his arm and became mediocre. 

 

I'm not sure about this regarding Prior. I thought at the time Prior debuted, he was considered to have very clean and efficient mechanics, and much of the analysis on him came after the injuries. And even some of the after the fact critiques (inverted W) are not universally agreed upon.

[USAFChief]

 

I'm not sure about this regarding Prior. I thought at the time Prior debuted, he was considered to have very clean and efficient mechanics, and much of the analysis on him came after the injuries. And even some of the after the fact critiques (inverted W) are not universally agreed upon.

Concur.  The narrative at the time Prior was drafted was he had "perfect" pitching mechanics.

 

http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/pitchingmechanics101/Essays/MarkPriorPerfectPitchingMechanics.html

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I think now would be the perfect time to get started on changing this situation.

You can begin to change being perceived as "Small time" by no longer acting "small time."

Still won't work. The Twins cannot magically conjure the money, history, and fanbase of Chicago.

 

It's like me getting an offer from Google and, say, Shopify. Is Shopify a fine place to work? I'm sure it is.

 

But whatever Shopify can offer, Google can offer the same and significantly more on top of that.

[prouster]

 

Not true. Mark Prior is the easiest example to throw out there. Many coaches in the league recognized Prior's bad delivery, but the Cubs did not coach him into trying something new.  Instead, they rushed him to the majors as quickly as possible. As you know his career was short.

We have our own version of this in Francisco Liriano, who made the majors in spite of having a violent delivery. We got to see half a season of the most dominant pitching any of us will ever see before he blew out his arm and became mediocre. 

 

Maybe, but injuries happen. My understanding is that while there are conventions of "clean" deliveries, no one actually knows what mechanically does and doesn't cause injury. By "know how to pitch," I didn't mean "has no room for improvement." More like, "has already proven their ability to get really good hitters out."

[gil4]

Still won't work. The Twins cannot magically conjure the money, history, and fanbase of Chicago.

 

It's like me getting an offer from Google and, say, Shopify. Is Shopify a fine place to work? I'm sure it is.

 

But whatever Shopify can offer, Google can offer the same and significantly more on top of that.

Cubs history = 107 years until next championship. Cubs fanbase will show up as long as they sell beer. The money is an issue, what is the Cubs payroll these days? I think the biggest issue is management, and there have been positive steps taken to get better there. We're just starting offseason year two.

[drjim]

There's this: