The Molitor decision has to come quickly, no? ***Poll added***

[drjim]

Molitor will almost certainly be back. I imagine the delay has to do with some shuffling of the coaching staff.

[nicksaviking]

Molitor will almost certainly be back. I imagine the delay has to do with some shuffling of the coaching staff.

We'll see, the coaching staff I'd like to retain.

[Mr. Brooks]

I started off in the fire Molitor camp early in the year. His failings just seemed to obvious - too deferential to veterans, can't handle a bullpen, too set on defined bullpen roles, unwilling to trust younger players and give them a chance to fail and then succeed, etc. I have to admit that I was wrong. I think we all have to recognize his capacity for and willingness to change. He embraced the younger players and gave them rope when they failed so they could learn and succeed.He was flexible with his bullpen and even gave key roles to two fuzzy cheeked guys in Hildenberger and Busenitz. He didn't defer to vets and changed the lineup so the crucial 3-6 spots were all filled by developing players. He has the respect to his players and control of the clubhouse. I think he learned, improved and deserves a shot going forward. Two years seems right. Three is a problem if this year was a mirage.

 

But what about the bunting? He does bunt too much but I think we should recognize why he does that. How many times this year have the Twins had a runner on second with no outs and not gotten him home?How many times have we stranded men on third with less than 2 outs? The yin and yang of young players is that they tend not to be good situational hitters and on this Twins team, they all stink at situational hitting except for Mauer. He bunts because his players aren't good at that skill. You watch the good teams play and there are good situational hitters up and down the lineup and we just aren't good at that skill up and down the lineup. It is the second biggest difference between the Twins and the elite teams behind our pitching. Molitor bunts because he has to. Hopefully that will change as the team and young hitters mature and I don't think we should over criticize him for bunting or have it cost him his job when part of the reason for the bunts is he's trying to mask a flaw in the team by doing so.

 

Bottom line - new 2 year contract at a respectable salary.

A couple things about the situational hitting you bring up.

 

Do you have any data that supports your theory?

Also, you seem to contradict yourself. Isn't the whole point of bunting to put yourself INTO a situational hitting spot, not OUT of one?

You bunt a guy over to third with your first out, that's a situational hitting spot you've just created for yourself, is it not?

[Doomtints]

Here is how a boss would evaluate an employee. Accomplishments v. Failures.

 

Accomplishments for Molitor in 2017: Everything improved on the bottom line. Better hitting, better pitching, more wins. Made the playoffs. Played well against the division and better than usual against the AL East, a longtime stick in the craw with the franchise.

 

Failures:  "Bunts a lot" and struggles with knowing the right time to pull a pitcher.

 

Notice the accomplishments column contains strategies and the failures column includes tactics. Tactics can be changed, and if the strategies were met some tactics are forgiven.

 

The only way Molitor is gone is if:

 

1) He doesn't get along with somebody important (unlikely - esp. considering the big boss loves him)

2) He doesn't want to stay (unlikely for several reasons)

3) The two sides don't agree on terms (also unlikely)

4) The new front office wants to toss the job to a friend (unlikely given the risk -- what if the replacement is worse? How would that look to the owner and to the fans?)

 

Gardenhire was blessed with Rincon, Romero, Nathan, etc., in the pen. If Molitor gets some lights out relievers who he can toss in the game without much thought, Molitor suddenly looks much better. That fixes one tactic right there.

[Mike Sixel]

The accomplishment column contains goals, not strategy/process at all. This is about the most common issue I run into at work, doing strategic planning for one of the biggest companies on the planet....people confuse goals with strategy. The question is, can his use of process achieve those goals again, not did he achieve those goals.....

[Doomtints]

 

The question is, can his use of process achieve those goals again, not did he achieve those goals.....

 

This would be an offensive way to evaluate an employee and would be a psychotic way to act. "Yeah, you did everything we asked and more. But tomorrow is a new day. Tell me right now why you won't suck balls as an employee starting tomorrow, even though you have been great so far?  I'll tell you what, I'll take a leap of faith.  1.5% raise.  Sign right here.  There you go, thanks.  Now get pour me some coffee and get out of my office!"

 

 

[h2oface]

 

Hmm, I'm surprised by the poll results so far on Seth's twitter. 

 

not everyone is a twit. the vote is not representative of as many fans. 

 

Kudos to Doubles for not doing a twitter poll.

[Thrylos]

 

This would be an offensive way to evaluate an employee and would be a psychotic way to act. "Yeah, you did everything we asked and more. But tomorrow is a new day. Tell me right now why you won't suck balls as an employee starting tomorrow, even though you have been great so far?  I'll tell you what, I'll take a leap of faith.  1.5% raise.  Sign right here.  There you go, thanks.  Now get pour me some coffee and get out of my office!"

 

Well, I think that it is at least irresponsible to not judge Molitor based on 2017 and 2016.  Matter of fact, I think that he is uber lucky to be the Twins manager in 2017.

 

The person who managed the most pathetic team of the Twins' history in MN should go away. 

 

I think that Falvey and Levine are being very diplomatic.  They understand that there are a lot of people who forget 2016 and focus on 2017 and want Molitor back.  So, they offered to bring him back, in their own terms that likely included firing of at least the pitching coach of one of the worst pitching staff in the majors 3 seasons in a row, and (hopefully) the last member of the Gardenhire regime; plus I suspect that Molitor might thing that he is underpaid.  

 

Thus the snug the discussions hit and if Molitor does not accept, he, and not the FO, will be the one who will look back.

 

Molitor in 2017 kinda cleaned up the mess he made in 2016.  If you evaluate all his 3 seasons, he was a loser overall.  Fact. 

 

Does not deserve to be back...

[old nurse]

 

I started off in the fire Molitor camp early in the year. His failings just seemed to obvious - too deferential to veterans, can't handle a bullpen, too set on defined bullpen roles, unwilling to trust younger players and give them a chance to fail and then succeed, etc.  I have to admit that I was wrong. I think we all have to recognize his capacity for and willingness to change. He embraced the younger players and gave them rope when they failed so they could learn and succeed.He was flexible with his bullpen and even gave key roles to two fuzzy cheeked guys in Hildenberger and Busenitz.  He didn't defer to vets and changed the lineup so the crucial 3-6 spots were all filled by developing players. He has the respect to his players and control of the clubhouse.  I think he learned, improved and deserves a shot going forward. Two years seems right. Three is a problem if this year was a mirage.

But what about the bunting? He does bunt too much but I think we should recognize why he does that. How many times this year have the Twins had a runner on second with no outs and not gotten him home?How many times have we stranded men on third with less than 2 outs? The yin and yang of young players is that they tend not to be good situational hitters and on this Twins team, they all stink at situational hitting except for Mauer. He bunts because his players aren't good at that skill. You watch the good teams play and there are good situational hitters up and down the lineup and we just aren't good at that skill up and down the lineup. It is the second biggest difference between the Twins and the elite teams behind our pitching. Molitor bunts because he has to. Hopefully that will change as the team and young hitters mature and I don't think we should over criticize him for bunting or have it cost him his job when part of the reason for the bunts is he's trying to mask a flaw in the team by doing so.

Bottom line - new 2 year contract at a respectable salary.

Twins averaged 3.65 runners left in scoring position per game, one of the worst in the league.  The teams with the fewest runners left in scoring position also scored the least runs.

[jimbo92107]

It comes down to a simple question: Who's better that's available?

 

I wanted Terry Francona the instant he was cut loose by Boston, but the Twins wanted to go local. I thought maybe Terry Steinbach, maybe one of their minor league coaches (Dougie Baseball?). They went with a great ballplayer with no managing experience. 

 

To me it looks like Paul Molitor has improved vastly since his debut. Today, he appears to know what he's doing, and his in-game decisions appear mostly to be explainable, in light of his personal philosophy of how the game should be played. Molitor is a small-ball proponent in a league that has swung the other way.

 

Does Molitor's style of managing get the most wins out of this team? Given the personnel, I don't see how a different manager would have done better. Fewer bunts? Maybe, but small-ball plays do get results, and Molitor coached his guys to make those tactics work. 

 

I would still take Francona over Molitor, but otherwise, the Twins have a pretty good manager.

[yarnivek1972]

Here is how a boss would evaluate an employee. Accomplishments v. Failures.

 

Accomplishments for Molitor in 2017: Everything improved on the bottom line. Better hitting, better pitching, more wins. Made the playoffs. Played well against the division and better than usual against the AL East, a longtime stick in the craw with the franchise.

 

 

Failures: "Bunts a lot" and struggles with knowing the right time to pull a pitcher.

 

Notice the accomplishments column contains strategies and the failures column includes tactics. Tactics can be changed, and if the strategies were met some tactics are forgiven.

 

The only way Molitor is gone is if:

 

1) He doesn't get along with somebody important (unlikely - esp. considering the big boss loves him)

2) He doesn't want to stay (unlikely for several reasons)

3) The two sides don't agree on terms (also unlikely)

4) The new front office wants to toss the job to a friend (unlikely given the risk -- what if the replacement is worse? How would that look to the owner and to the fans?)

 

Gardenhire was blessed with Rincon, Romero, Nathan, etc., in the pen. If Molitor gets some lights out relievers who he can toss in the game without much thought, Molitor suddenly looks much better. That fixes one tactic right there.

 

Failure: The Twins were 12-26 against the other four American League teams that finished above .500.

 

 

So, the Twins were either the best of the rest or the worst of the best.

[Twodogs]

Well, I think that it is at least irresponsible to not judge Molitor based on 2017 and 2016. Matter of fact, I think that he is uber lucky to be the Twins manager in 2017.

 

The person who managed the most pathetic team of the Twins' history in MN should go away.

 

I think that Falvey and Levine are being very diplomatic. They understand that there are a lot of people who forget 2016 and focus on 2017 and want Molitor back. So, they offered to bring him back, in their own terms that likely included firing of at least the pitching coach of one of the worst pitching staff in the majors 3 seasons in a row, and (hopefully) the last member of the Gardenhire regime; plus I suspect that Molitor might thing that he is underpaid.

 

Thus the snug the discussions hit and if Molitor does not accept, he, and not the FO, will be the one who will look back.

 

Molitor in 2017 kinda cleaned up the mess he made in 2016. If you evaluate all his 3 seasons, he was a loser overall. Fact.

 

Does not deserve to be back...

What was Tom Kelly's overall record?? They made a bronze statue of that overall loser??

[Thrylos]

 

What was Tom Kelly's overall record?? They made a bronze statue of that overall loser??

I'm not saying what they should do, I think he probably earned one more shot, they can always fire him if he doesn't do well in the future. But they will have a tough time with the fans if they let him go and his predecessor does worse. I hope the Twins continue to improve.

 

TK won 2 world series. Molitor and his predecessor have won a single post-season series among them.

 

 

[Twodogs]

Yeah but if Molly manages for 15 years he might win one or two also. Another slight factor is that during TK's years McPhail and the Twins sometimes actually went out and signed some players that helped them. Chili Davis, Don Baylor, Dan Gladden, John Smiley, etc.... Maybe McPhail was just luckier with his signings and stuff, but those kinds of moves helped then accomplish a lot of those things. So far for the last 10 or so years the Twins and the F.O. haven't done a lot to help the twins get better. That one year they signed Nolasco, Hughes, Santana, they gave it a shot, but it didn't work out. So some of the circumstances are different. Again, I don't have a real opinion on what to do with Molitor, but I think he deserves a shot to stay.

[h2oface]

 

 

To me it looks like Paul Molitor has improved vastly since his debut. Today, he appears to know what he's doing, and his in-game decisions appear mostly to be explainable, in light of his personal philosophy of how the game should be played. Molitor is a small-ball proponent in a league that has swung the other way.

 

Does Molitor's style of managing get the most wins out of this team? Given the personnel, I don't see how a different manager would have done better. Fewer bunts? Maybe, but small-ball plays do get results, and Molitor coached his guys to make those tactics work. 

 

I would still take Francona over Molitor, but otherwise, the Twins have a pretty good manager.

 

Yup. It would be hard to get Francona now. Watching Molitor create a 20 some minute delay and make our own players leave the line up in Los Angeles this July trying to execute a double switch...... I can't agree that he knows what he is doing.