Article: Twins Fall To Yankees... Again. Looking Back, Looking Forward.

[lukeduke1980]

 

I completely disagree with those who want Molitor to come back. Get some new blood managing this team, get a guy who understands today's game and today's players. Get someone who is well liked by players. Thanks for the ride, Molly. Grab your fishing pole and head off into the sunset knowing you got your team to the playoffs in your last year as manager. 

Today's game?  Swing for the fences or strikeout - we've got that.  The part of today's game we don't have is power arms with power sliders.  We had Buddy Boshers warming up yesterday for gosh sakes.  Get pitching and let Molitor fail when he has better options before declaring him incompetent.  

[USAFChief]

Meh, I thought the umpires did a good job yesterday. It was a tight strike zone, but they were consistent on both sides from what I could tell. Severino had his fair share of close calls that didn't go his way either.

 

Concur. I thought the umpiring was great. Tight zone.

 

And there were a number of Twins hitters who got pitches to hit, and didn't.

 

Umpiring had nothing to do with this loss.

[Broker]

Well, April, 2018 is only about 6 months away. 2017 was fun so maybe 2018 will be more fun.

[wavedog]

One thing I will add on the Gregorius pitch was that Castro was set up mid-to high outside and the pitch came in low and to the inside.   So Castro had to move his glove down and to the right.   Definitely was a strike according to their strike box but from the Umps live viewpoint you can see why it looked low.   If Castro's glove was set where it was pitched it probably would have been a strike.   This can be used as an argument to automate the strike zone to remove that human misperception.  It also shows how off Santana's control was as he was missing Castro's targets in the first inning.      

[gocgo]

I'm really curious where Grossman fits in the scheme of things.  Granite has to be better defensively than Grossman and I would think that there are better bats around than Grossman (maybe not).  It seems that we are kind of trying to put a square peg in a round hole because he's not good in the outfield and doesn't have the kind of pop you would want in a DH.  He did not look good last night at the plate.

[gocgo]

 

Meh, I thought the umpires did a good job yesterday. It was a tight strike zone, but they were consistent on both sides from what I could tell. Severino had his fair share of close calls that didn't go his way either. 

Agreed...not sure the NY fans would agree as they seem to expect every close pitch to go their way.  Made me laugh though.

[Deduno Abides]

One hot topic from last year has almost disappeared: whether Neil Allen should return. I'd lean to getting a new pitching coach, but I'm glad that Falvey and Levine are responsible for making the decision.

[Old Twins Cap]

Definitely time to clean house in the coaching staff, except for Rowson, though, I don't know how you do that to a new Manager:  "Here is your hitting coach."?

 

Twins had a great year, and like under Gardy, that means they are just good enough to feed to the Yankees.

 

Don't want that life any more.

[Smarterthanyou]

I'm surprised there isn't more conversation about the balls and strikes calls. Maybe I'm just a sore loser, but Santana struck out Gregorius before that home run. Then, Castro got screwed when the umpire expanded the zone outside on him, and he had to strike out on the next pitch that was outside the zone. I didn't pay too much attention to the calls the rest of the game, but those were two big calls.

 

I'm probably just biased, but it seemed to me like at least those two calls had a major effect on the game, and we didn't get any important breaks from the ump.

 

And you can offer excuses, like Santana didn't throw the pitch in the right location, and Castro had to reach for it. But the umpire should be calling the strike zone, not where and how the pitch is caught. It's time we had balls and strikes called by someone who isn't distracted by shiny objects or influenced by crowds.

[Smarterthanyou]

Excuses are the bricks that are used to build the house of failure

[gunnarthor]

 

I'm really curious where Grossman fits in the scheme of things.  Granite has to be better defensively than Grossman and I would think that there are better bats around than Grossman (maybe not).  It seems that we are kind of trying to put a square peg in a round hole because he's not good in the outfield and doesn't have the kind of pop you would want in a DH.  He did not look good last night at the plate.

He's still relatively cheap so I'd expect he'd be back in a reduced role. I think part time DH/OF/bench bat works for him. He gets on base which is a good thing.

 

I think Sano is going to get a lot of games as the DH next year.

[Vanimal46]

 

Agreed...not sure the NY fans would agree as they seem to expect every close pitch to go their way.  Made me laugh though.

 

That's just NY fans. The way they were reacting last night, if a pitch hit the dirt before home plate, they would boo because it was called a ball. 

[Don Walcott]

 

Excuses are the bricks that are used to build the house of failure

Is that some sort of eastern thing?

[jmlease1]

 

I'm really curious where Grossman fits in the scheme of things.  Granite has to be better defensively than Grossman and I would think that there are better bats around than Grossman (maybe not).  It seems that we are kind of trying to put a square peg in a round hole because he's not good in the outfield and doesn't have the kind of pop you would want in a DH.  He did not look good last night at the plate.

 

He's not a great fit, because he's pretty terrible defensively so it's hard to play him in the OF if Rosario is starting (and the way eddie hit this year, it's hard not to start him). He's an on base machine, but you'd like a guy to be a bit more of a threat if he's your primary DH. and If Sano needs more time at DH next year, it's increasingly hard to carry him. Granite profiles better as your 5th OF right now (until he proves he can be a high average hitter in MLB) but he's a good defensive player you can slot in anywhere. It's not an easy call and may depend on what the free agent market looks like for hitters.

 

Clearly the focus for next year will be pitching. The offense and defense are where we need them to be, the pitching has to improve, especially in the rotation.

 

[Major League Ready]

 

As a minor league emergency depth piece...ok. A 6th or 7th OFer.

As a regular backup major league OFer? Wayyyyyy too limited offensively. No arm.

No thanks.

 

I think they can do better too but Ben Revere managed to find work at the ML level for a long time with the same profile.

[Major League Ready]

 

I'm surprised there isn't more conversation about the balls and strikes calls. Maybe I'm just a sore loser, but Santana struck out Gregorius before that home run. Then, Castro got screwed when the umpire expanded the zone outside on him, and he had to strike out on the next pitch that was outside the zone. I didn't pay too much attention to the calls the rest of the game, but those were two big calls.

 

I'm probably just biased, but it seemed to me like at least those two calls had a major effect on the game, and we didn't get any important breaks from the ump.

 

And you can offer excuses, like Santana didn't throw the pitch in the right location, and Castro had to reach for it. But the umpire should be calling the strike zone, not where and how the pitch is caught. It's time we had balls and strikes called by someone who isn't distracted by shiny objects or influenced by crowds.

 

That strike out would have only been the 2nd out but its hard to argue that the Twins chances would have been much better had the proper call been made.   I am ready for electronic balls and strikes.  It's just too much to expect a human to make calls with precision on a 95mph pitch with movement and the impact of bad calls is significant.  It also will eliminate the time guys spend standing outside the box muttering after a call they disagree with.

[Major League Ready]

 

Terry Ryan, Bill Smith and Rob Antony get ZERO credit. Why? Two seasons, Aaron Judge and Kohl Stewart. One was drafted before the other, and a reminder of how HORRIBLE this team was managed for years, on old school thinking. I, for one, do not take this loss lightly. For all the high draft picks that we have had, it was expected that the Twins reach this stages ages ago. Late to the party is no excuse for having the wrong dress on. Sorry, but Terry Ryan, Bill Smith and Rob Antony do not get credit. They ran this club into the ground.

 

 I think you might want to reconsider that logic.  There is plenty to complain about but that pick is not among them.  Literally every team in MLB passed on Judge, including the Yankees.  They picked Eric Jagielo who does not look like he will ever play in the majors with the 26th pick and took judge 32nd.  Kohl Stewart was a consensus top 10 even top 5 pick.  To suggest it was incompetent to pick Stewart ovber Judge is to say that everyone involved in that draft for every MLB team was incompetent.

 

The pick I hated was Tyler Jay.  Benintendi and Happ were picked right behind him.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Major Leauge Ready

[USAFChief]

I think they can do better too but Ben Revere managed to find work at the ML level for a long time with the same profile.

Revere has a career .280 MLB BA.

[Deduno Abides]

Revere has a career .280 MLB BA.

Granite's OBP and ISO this year track with Revere's better years and he was generally better than Revere in the minors. If he continues his trend of improvement, he should be a more valuable offensive player. On defense, Revere had two excellent years in the outfield (and then became somewhat bad), so Granite may have some work to do to match Revere's best defensive work. No matter what, however, he is way better than Grossman in the field.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Deduno Abides

[h2oface]

 

Minnesota Nice!!

 

NY idiot. He is from NYC, right (a Staten Island High School)? Maybe he was on the take?   Just kidding, but his severe mental mistakes in LA and this Wild Card game are unforgivable in my book.  

 

There is one mission..... only.... when running to first base...... and that is to step on the base - hopefully before the ball gets there. Anything can happen, and sometimes does. TOUCH THE DAMN BASE!

[h2oface]

 

Meh, I thought the umpires did a good job yesterday. It was a tight strike zone, but they were consistent on both sides from what I could tell. Severino had his fair share of close calls that didn't go his way either. 

 

Any wrong call is tragic, in my opinion. And just because it was consistently off on both sides, how does that ever make it better or correct? A perfect pitch by Santana was missed, and drastically changed this game. I, for one, will never be accepting of something that could so easily be improved for the better of the game.

[ashbury]

There is one mission..... only.... when running to first base...... and that is to step on the base - hopefully before the ball gets there. Anything can happen, and sometimes does. TOUCH THE DAMN BASE!

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/499/285/459.jpg

[h2oface]

 

That strike out would have only been the 2nd out but its hard to argue that the Twins chances would have been much better had the proper call been made.   ..........

 

The next batter pops out to Buxton in shallow center. That would have been 3 outs, with the score 3-0.  There were 14 additional pitches thrown by Santana after Gregorius actually had struck out (not including the 6 to Marte for the fly out, which should have been out #3, not 2). 14 extra pitches in the 1st inning - 1 To Gregorius, 7 to walk Bird, and 6 to get Hicks to ground out. Santana would have been pitching ahead, and even after the second inning solo homer, the game would have been 3-1.

 

So, I heartily disagree that the Twins chances wouldn't have been much better had the proper call been made. (and that is not entertaining that the Bird walk, and the Hicks strikeout would have been in the 2nd inning, and the 1st out, and Gardner wouldn't even had come to bat in the second to hit the home run..... because that is just ridiculous to consider because there is no reason to think the same chain of events that happened would happen if the space time continuum had been changed by actually correctly calling strike three in Gregorius' at bat)  

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by h2oface