Article: NYY 8, MIN 4: It’s Over

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

The infield was playing in on Buxton in the first. A bunt most likely would have resulted in Escobar being thrown out at home. And Castro would still have struck out.

[bizaff]

I don't mind sending Santana out for the second.. once he still didn't have command or the sinker, pull him.  Ultimately he only gave up one run in the second so it's not that bad either way.

 

He's been so good this year, it just sucks that he didn't have it last night.

 

I don't think he was using the half hour delay as "an excuse", he said the loss was his fault.. he was trying to analyze why he didn't have it.  I respect him for saying the delay hurt him and for taking responsibility.  I'm sure no one was more crushed than him.

 

Awesome roller coaster, too bad they left the "meat on the bone" in a couple innings.

 

I hope they bring Molitor back.  I don't like all the bunting, and I think some improvements can/need to happen in bullpen usage, but I think he's up to it.  The team had growing pains, the manager can too.

[Longdistancetwins]

 

Who else thought for a split second Mauer hit a 3-run HR? Questionable camera work on that play.

Interesting.  At the ballpark, from my vantage point, it was an obvious catch.  What I couldn't see at all was Buxton's catch and had no idea why he had to leave the game.  

[h2oface]

 

Lots of hate for Ervin. I don't like it. Sure, he didn't pitch too great - neither did Berrios or the rest of the pen. Plenty of blame to be spread around...the offense scored 3 in the 1st, but they should have scored more. The offense only put 1 run on the board in the final 8 innings. The Twins struck out 4 times in a row and crucially let the momentum shift to the NYY. 

 

Gardener is a Twins killer. I can't remember the last time I saw the Twins get him out. Judge is a monster. The Yankees have no holes in their lineup offensively. Their bullpen is stacked with shut-down guys. They are the better team and they put a whoopin' on the Twins as most thought they would. 

 

Erv didn't lose this game for the Twins. The Yankees pitching and hitting is astronomically better than Minnesota's, and they showed that tonight. Go easy on Erv, he didn't have a complete meltdown out there...the whole staff got roughed up. 

 

If you were to ask me, Berrios is the one who really blew the game, and he did get the loss.  Twins come back to tie it, Berrios quickly gives up 3 runs including that HR to Judge which really put the nail in the coffin. 

Great season from a fun team - Erv's what got the Twins this far and he did not lose the game last night. 

 

Santana made it astronomically easier for the Yankee bats. Serving it up like Colon. Right in the sweet spots. That surely was visible from all TVs. The umpires call on pitch 5 to Gregorius should have been a strike out. Instead, it became a home run on the next pitch. That didn't help. (the fancy 3D tracking showed it even better. Definitely was a strike, all through the zone. A perfect pitch.)

 

Edited October 4, 2017 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

It is important for all of us Twins fans to read Mike Berardino's article "No Surrender" especially today after our disappointing loss last night. Matt Belisle had it right when he said: "Even if you lose, if you do it right, you're a winner." The 2017 Twins are winners. Period.

 

What does that even mean? What exactly are the criteria for losing right? Period.

Edited October 4, 2017 by h2oface

[Dantes929]

 

Santana made it astronomically easier for the Yankee bats. Serving it up like Colon. Right in the sweet spots. That surely was visible from all TVs. The umpires call on pitch 5 to Gregorius should have been a strike out. Instead, it became a home run on the next pitch. That didn't help. (the fancy 3D tracking showed it even better. Definitely was a strike, all through the zone. A perfect pitch.

I referred to this in my earlier comment so thank you for fleshing it out.    I think Castro was set up outside so having to move his glove that much probably didn't help.     I'm not blaming the umpires but just saying games turn on little things like this.   He strikes out and maybe the whole game goes differently.   Back to not winning this game is not the same as being unable to win this game.   

[spinowner]

Well, we were only 8 ½ innings away from a victory.

[spinowner]

 

Berrios threw the hardest Twins' pitch at 97. The Yankees threw 60 pitches harder than that......

 

Maybe we can stop assessing the pitching, and do something about it other than hope.

The Yankee Stadium gun is way juiced, but the point remains that we are short on power pitching.

[highlander]

It was everything I prayed for... until the bottom of the 1st! For whatever reason Erv didn't have it. The demons were ready to be exorcized, then they weren't. It's obvious the Twins still need pitching, a starter and 2 or 3 arms in the pen. Disappointed in the loss not disappointed in the effort. This Twins team is the antithesis of quitters. Thanks for letting me ride along.

[ashbury]

From this afternoon's Boston Globe daily baseball capsule:

 

"The Yankees built a bullpen Death Star at the trade deadline, a singular force capable of obliterating opposing teams right out of the postseason. On Tuesday night, in their 8-4 wild card victory over the Alderaan Twins, they deployed it,"

 

Awwww, the big city boys think our team's cute. And hopeless.

 

 

[Danchat]

 

I understand the optimism about our future and hopes that we will return to the postseason. But one needs to look no further than the Vikings and see how fleeting "the window" really is. I think Vikings fans such as myself looked at their 2015 season much like twins fans are looking at this one. "We're set for a good run" I thought. Fast forward two years and it would appear to me that the Vikings, through costly costly injuries, may miss out on the playoffs for a second straight season. Nothing is sports is guaranteed. Injuries, year long slumps, rough schedules, etc.

While yes, I do agree with this statement, the fact remains that this is a team in the midst of a rebuild that just so happened to catch the AL's 2nd wild card spot while the rest of the AL cowered away or built for the playoffs. This team was not built for a playoff run and the focus should remain on the future.

 

So with 2017 being the opening of the "playoff window", every effort from now on should be to build this team into a yearly playoff competitor that can go up against New York/Cleveland/Houston. My hope is that 2018 can be the first of many seasons where we say "this is the year!" instead of "let's get competitive in 2019."

 

Let's just hope that Buxton doesn't run into a wall in Spring Training and tear an ACL or have Sano step on third base but have his leg randomly explode. Those may be more Viking-esque misfortunes though.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

What does that even mean? What exactly are the criteria for losing right? Period.

It means that in the grand scheme of things: "It matters not if you win or lose, it's how you play the game." I am a Twins fan for more than just the wins, as enjoyable as they may be. I think many readers at TD feel the same. 

[h2oface]

It was nice to get to the wild card game. It really was. In the day after, It is ever so clear that this club is so not built for the playoffs. Maybe all the .250 bats with high potential will become that. Surely it will not be banked on. But the pitching, starting and bullpen, is so far away from doing anything except arrive. I hope the Front Office DOES SOMETHING this off season.... and not a Belisle or Colon type. I had lamented on a thread about a week ago that it sure would be nice if Verlander was pitching for us. Somebody replied that he was.... by beating some of the teams we were trying to get distance from for the 2nd wild card. And indeed, he sort of was    

 

But a Verlander was nowhere to be found yesterday, and certainly wasn't pitching for us.

Edited October 4, 2017 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

Thanks Tom for everything this season! I hope to read much more from you going forward.

No hate for Santana, Berrios or anyone else. If the Twins score those extra 2 runs in the first and Santana pitches even a little better and we win, is Sevarino a bum who should be raked across the coals?

On thing I've found out in all of my years as a sports fan is that my favorite teams don't get to win the championship every year...or every other year.

 

 

You just needed to be a Giants fan 2010-2014.

[h2oface]

 

It means that in the grand scheme of things: "It matters not if you win or lose, it's how you play the game." I am a Twins fan for more than just the wins, as enjoyable as they may be. I think many readers at TD feel the same. 

 

Still interested in your take on what the actual criteria is, specifics beyond the generality. I speak for myself, without summoning a group that I haven't polled.

Edited October 4, 2017 by h2oface

[Aggies7]

It took years to build the Yankees bullpen into what it is today

 

Betances: drafted by NYY 2006

Robertson: drafted by NYY 2006, signed as a FA by the white sox after 2014 and then traded back to NY 2017

Chad green: acquired from Detroit in a trade after the 2015 season

Kahnle: drafted by NYY in 2010, lost to the Rockies in the 2013 rule 5 draft, traded to CWS in 2015 and traded back to NY this year

Chapman: signed after 2015 season

 

So, through shrewd drafting and trades, this BP was 10 years in the making. Can the twins do this?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Just brainstorming, but should the Twins have gotten Robertson and Kahnle? The White Sox were apparently willing to deal early... heck, we could have probably used Frazier too... I guess the response will be that it wasn't worth it with our lack of confident SP, but Robertson and Kahnle are both controlled for 2018 too, and as we saw last night, they can help cover for SP deficiencies.

[Ben B]

 

And, in fairness, same with Dozier's leadoff HR in the 1st. All were classic Mauer wall-scrapers from the Metrodome days. 

 

Dozier's was to left though, it seems a little tougher to hit it out that way. A moderately hard line drive to right field goes over the fence. The whole park is ridiculous. 

[drjim]

Just brainstorming, but should the Twins have gotten Robertson and Kahnle? The White Sox were apparently willing to deal early... heck, we could have probably used Frazier too... I guess the response will be that it wasn't worth it with our lack of confident SP, but Robertson and Kahnle are both controlled for 2018 too, and as we saw last night, they can help cover for SP deficiencies.

Sure, but not clear the Twins could match the package unless they moved Gordon.

[Mr. Brooks]

It means that in the grand scheme of things: "It matters not if you win or lose, it's how you play the game." I am a Twins fan for more than just the wins, as enjoyable as they may be. I think many readers at TD feel the same.

But in this case, baseball is a business, and the game is a product. It DOES matter if you win or lose.

This is like a restaurant saying it doesn't matter if my steak is cooked properly, as long as the chef had fun cooking it.

 

I'm not saying these guys have to go home and kick the dog if they lose, but at the same time, these guys making tens of millions of dollars don't get to pretend it's the same thing as kids playing a pick up game at the park.

[h2oface]

 

Just brainstorming, but should the Twins have gotten Robertson and Kahnle? The White Sox were apparently willing to deal early... heck, we could have probably used Frazier too... I guess the response will be that it wasn't worth it with our lack of confident SP, but Robertson and Kahnle are both controlled for 2018 too, and as we saw last night, they can help cover for SP deficiencies.

 

Sure! But the brain trust was so sure that there would be no need for anything except playing the year out, getting their own manager, purging the minors and scouting, and concentrate on next year. Always next year, and hope there are not mysterious bilateral or unilateral leg injuries, nobody takes a pitch and breaks their hand for the year, nobody runs into a wall, etc etc..... next year. There was literally almost nothing done to this team yet. And even though they got to the wild card game, they are not even close to having a team that can really compete once they get in the playoffs, and no attempt, as of yet, has been done in that direction.

Edited October 5, 2017 by h2oface

[h2oface]

 

Dozier's was to left though, it seems a little tougher to hit it out that way. A moderately hard line drive to right field goes over the fence. The whole park is ridiculous. 

 

Not ridiculous enough for the Twins bats to hit more than 2 out and score more than 4 runs.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

 

But in this case, baseball is a business, and the game is a product. It DOES matter if you win or lose.
This is like a restaurant saying it doesn't matter if my steak is cooked properly, as long as the chef had fun cooking it.

I'm not saying these guys have to go home and kick the dog if they lose, but at the same time, these guys making tens of millions of dollars don't get to pretend it's the same thing as kids playing a pick up game at the park.

If what you guys are saying is true, then why are you Twins' fans? If it is all about winning, why don't you pull for the baseball franchise with the most wins in the history of major league baseball, the New York Yankees? Why do fans pull for losing teams year after year?  Being a loyal fan of a certain team is more than wins and losses. 

[Mr. Brooks]

If what you guys are saying is true, then why are you Twins' fans? If it is all about winning, why don't you pull for the baseball franchise with the most wins in the history of major league baseball, the New York Yankees? Why do fans pull for losing teams year after year? Being a loyal fan of a certain team is more than wins and losses.

Well I became hooked as a twins fan when they did win 2 world series, as a child.

 

Just because the Twins haven't won since, doesn't mean it doesn't matter if they win or not.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Sure, but not clear the Twins could match the package unless they moved Gordon.

Yeah, I didn't mean they would have gotten them cheaply. (Although I do wonder what the correct valuation is for Gordon these days. Don't know if this deal was right, but it is certainly possible that his max value to the organization might be adding a few pitching seasons now in trade, rather than a few more infield seasons down the line.)

 

Interestingly, the Yankees got 2.2 IP of fairly effective long relief from Jaime Garcia last night, so maybe the "buy" phase of our deadline strategy wasn't so bad?