Sano

[Squirrel]

 

Still, his weight does weigh into recovery time and stress on his leg.

No, actually it doesn't. At least I am not convinced of that and lean more towards 'No, it doesn't' from the trainers I've talked to about this at my tennis club. That's why this injury is concerning because I think it is a SEPARATE issue from any weight concerns. It would seem like logical dots to connect, but the more people I talk to the more I am convinced that the weight has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the cause and/or recovery of this, and not aiding and abetting. And it's very concerning. That's not to say that there isn't/shouldn't be concern about Sano's weight maintenance, because of course that could and likely does have an impact on his longevity in baseball and toward how he plays in the field. Of course the team and Sano need to work together to find a way to manage it. Of course there should be concern ... and I think there is, from the team and the fans and likely Sano, too. (Don't know.) But I also see hints and implications that it isn't being managed due to attacks on Sano's character ... that he doesn't take it seriously, that he doesn't care, that he's lazy and doesn't try ... and on and on. Sometimes for some people, weight is a very, very, VERY difficult thing to manage. And with Sano, I'm sure even more so because the dude is just outright BIG.

[drjim]

 

Another reason to avoid DHing Sano. 

 

Definitely agree. I think he can DH a decent amount (~30% or so), but he needs to play a position.

[yarnivek1972]

 

The threshold there is missing ANY time in those seasons, not necessarily whole seasons. I would guess the average health player would probably hit the DL 3 times in 6 seasons, no? Not an iron man, but I wouldn't call that a "very high" occurrence.

How about the average 24 old?  Anecdotally, younger guys usually don't get the nagging type injuries that start hitting guys in their late 20s and through their 30s.  Injuries like strains and pulls are injuries that put older guys on the shelf.  Younger guys usually get the freakish injuries involving breaking bones and tearing tendons..  Which is what at least two of Sano's injuries were.  I honestly don't know about the third.  He could just be unlucky that way.

[biggentleben]

 

No, actually it doesn't. At least I am not convinced of that and lean more towards 'No, it doesn't' from the trainers I've talked to about this at my tennis club. That's why this injury is concerning because I think it is a SEPARATE issue from any weight concerns. It would seem like logical dots to connect, but the more people I talk to the more I am convinced that the weight has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the cause and/or recovery of this, and not aiding and abetting. And it's very concerning. That's not to say that there isn't/shouldn't be concern about Sano's weight maintenance, because of course that could and likely does have an impact on his longevity in baseball and toward how he plays in the field. Of course the team and Sano need to work together to find a way to manage it. Of course there should be concern ... and I think there is, from the team and the fans and likely Sano, too. (Don't know.) But I also see hints and implications that it isn't being managed due to attacks on Sano's character ... that he doesn't take it seriously, that he doesn't care, that he's lazy and doesn't try ... and on and on. Sometimes for some people, weight is a very, very, VERY difficult thing to manage. And with Sano, I'm sure even more so because the dude is just outright BIG.

 

Well stated. I recall reading multiple conversations through the season about how hard he was hitting his shins with balls. I wondered when they discussed going down due to essentially repeated trauma if the bone may have finally given way to some degree.

[Heezy1323]

With respect to the concerns about the Twins medical staff- I can tell you that they are professional, well-respected doctors. I know it is common sentiment (here and many other places) to believe that every injury should be diagnosed correctly within hours and that the timetable for return should be set minutes later- and no deviation should ever be needed (exaggerating... a little). I am telling you--- it just ain't that simple. 

It is quite frequent that the specific diagnosis or the extent of an injury is unclear initially, and only becomes apparent over time. It is also quite frequent that the response to a proposed treatment doesn't occur exactly as expected. Each of these things requires vigilance, communication, careful thought and appropriate medical knowledge. But the human body is an incredibly complex machine that can be strikingly different from person to person. The fact that the stakes are higher in these athletes than in the average 'working Joe' can make it even more challenging. Should the newest, unproven treatment be tried? Should we let them return to play? To practice? To partial practice? To fielding only? To hitting only? To throwing only? Some combination of the above? Do we need to do surgery? 

 As with every job, the devil is in the details. I understand the frustration of those who want to see Sano back in the lineup (you can include me in that group), but there are too many variables in play to make any significant conclusions from the information available. Sometimes injuries heal quickly. Sometimes they take longer. There are (quite literally) dozens of variables.

 

 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

With respect to the concerns about the Twins medical staff- I can tell you that they are professional, well-respected doctors. I know it is common sentiment (here and many other places) to believe that every injury should be diagnosed correctly within hours and that the timetable for return should be set minutes later- and no deviation should ever be needed (exaggerating... a little). I am telling you--- it just ain't that simple.

It is quite frequent that the specific diagnosis or the extent of an injury is unclear initially, and only becomes apparent over time. It is also quite frequent that the response to a proposed treatment doesn't occur exactly as expected. Each of these things requires vigilance, communication, careful thought and appropriate medical knowledge. But the human body is an incredibly complex machine that can be strikingly different from person to person. The fact that the stakes are higher in these athletes than in the average 'working Joe' can make it even more challenging. Should the newest, unproven treatment be tried? Should we let them return to play? To practice? To partial practice? To fielding only? To hitting only? To throwing only? Some combination of the above? Do we need to do surgery?

As with every job, the devil is in the details. I understand the frustration of those who want to see Sano back in the lineup (you can include me in that group), but there are too many variables in play to make any significant conclusions from the information available. Sometimes injuries heal quickly. Sometimes they take longer. There are (quite literally) dozens of variables.

With all due respect, its possible that the Twins doctors could be professional and respected, and yet still be slightly less talented than some other teams medical staffs.

[drjim]

With all due respect, its possible that the Twins doctors could be professional and respected, and yet still be slightly less talented than some other teams medical staffs.

What would you base that assumption on?

 

Seems equally possible they have one of the better staffs.

[Heezy1323]

 

With all due respect, its possible that the Twins doctors could be professional and respected, and yet still be slightly less talented than some other teams medical staffs.

Absolutely true. But my response would be that it is impossible for a layperson to make that judgement from the information available to them via the media. I know these doctors personally. I also know a number of other MLB doctors and speak with Dr. Andrews fairly regularly. I can't tell you how 'talented' the Twins doctors are in comparison to other teams'. No one can. 

 

[Mr. Brooks]

What would you base that assumption on?

 

Seems equally possible they have one of the better staffs.

What assumption did i make?

I specifically said its possible, not that it's happening.

 

I have no way of knowing if the Twins have the best medical staff in baseball or the worst.

[USAFChief]

With all due respect, its possible that the Twins doctors could be professional and respected, and yet still be slightly less talented than some other teams medical staffs.

Heezy is sort of our local medical expert and for what it's worth, he stayed at a full blown Holiday Inn last night.

[drjim]

What assumption did i make?

I specifically said its possible, not that it's happening.

 

I have no way of knowing if the Twins have the best medical staff in baseball or the worst.

I figured something triggered that thought.

[yarnivek1972]

So, an interesting development. Dick just said that Molitor said it is "unlikely" that Sano helps in the regular season.

[Mr. Brooks]

I figured something triggered that thought.

Just wanted to make sure it was known that a person can have doubts about the relative quality of the medical staff, without accusing them of being unprofessional or not respected.

[drjim]

Just wanted to make sure it was known that a person can have doubts about the relative quality of the medical staff, without accusing them of being unprofessional or not respected.

Makes sense. I guess I'm wondering about the doubts.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Makes sense. I guess I'm wondering about the doubts.

Because Twins

[Mr. Brooks]

Makes sense. I guess I'm wondering about the doubts.

It's fair to wonder about all the milb arm injuries.

It could be terrible luck, and we have the best medical staff in the league.

Or, they might be competent, but relatively poor compared to some of the other teams.

 

A person can admit they have no idea, but still fairly question it.

[jorgenswest]

A stress reaction to a weight bearing bone can take 4 weeks or 8 weeks. His injury is somewhat similar to Harper's who isn't back yet and I think was out a week before Sano. Perhaps there is similar frustration with Harper on a Nationals fan site.

[h2oface]

I don't get the big deal. It heals when it heals. If he isn't ready, he has the off season to heal. I don't see why any one would be trying to scam anyone for any reason. 

[drjim]

It's fair to wonder about all the milb arm injuries.

It could be terrible luck, and we have the best medical staff in the league.

Or, they might be competent, but relatively poor compared to some of the other teams.

 

A person can admit they have no idea, but still fairly question it.

Twins have a lot of arm injuries like every other team. They are nowhere near an outlier.

 

And I'm not exactly sure what doctors have to do with that anyways. Doesn't seem like they screw up diagnoses or surgeries.

[Mr. Brooks]

Twins have a lot of arm injuries like every other team. They are nowhere near an outlier.

 

And I'm not exactly sure what doctors have to do with that anyways. Doesn't seem like they screw up diagnoses or surgeries.

The first part is opinion. You and I are not equipped to know if any of them could have been prevented, period. So please don't imply that your opinion is more valid or fact based than mine.

 

Secondly, I'd sure as hell hope the doctors are giving imput into more than just the diagnosis and surgery. I'd hope they have some input on training, mechanics, rehab vs. surgery odds, recovery, etc.

 

If they don't, perhaps that is a problem.

Yes, I'm speculating. But so is anyone saying that better medical staff could not have prevented any of them. Both are speculation, period.

They are part of a competitive, zero sum game. It's not possible that all teams have exactly equally talented medical staffs.

 

It's perfectly fair to wonder if there could be improvement there. No different than wondering if they could improve the pitching coach, or regional scout, etc.

[Heezy1323]

 

I don't get the big deal. It heals when it heals. If he isn't ready, he has the off season to heal. I don't see why any one would be trying to scam anyone for any reason. 

I completely agree. What benefit is it to anyone for Sano to be out longer than he needs to be? There is no one in the equation that has any reason to hold up his return other than 'he just isn't ready'

[Heezy1323]

 

A stress reaction to a weight bearing bone can take 4 weeks or 8 weeks. His injury is somewhat similar to Harper's who isn't back yet and I think was out a week before Sano. Perhaps there is similar frustration with Harper on a Nationals fan site.

So there are some subtle differences here which are potentially worth discussing. I admittedly don't know the details of Harper's injury, but a 'stress reaction' is different from a 'bone bruise' or 'bone contusion'. 

 Typically, a stress reaction is the bone's response to a repetitive stress when bone metabolism becomes unbalanced in favor of bone 'breakdown' and away from bone 'buildup'. This can happen for a number of reasons that range from simple to extremely complex (and way over my head). Some factors include bone location, amount and type of stress, shoe-wear (these are commonly in the foot area), alignment of the limb, injuries to the opposite leg that cause more stress on the area, vitamin D status, and many others. 

 A bone 'contusion' or bone 'bruise' is really a different animal. These typically occur when either two bones bang into each other (commonly in the knee) or when something external bangs into the bone (like a foul ball, for example). 

 It may seem like a small difference, but it is an important distinction. If it is a repetitive stress injury, we need to do our best to identify the cause or causes and eliminate or improve them. In a bone bruise, most commonly it was a single event (rather than a repetitive stress) and identifying the cause is usually easy. Just like a bruise in any other location of your body, there is a huge range in severity. As an example, bumping into the table with your thigh might give you a small bruise that take a week or so to improve. Being hit by a line drive softball in the thigh might cause massive bruising and take several weeks to improve. In both instances, there is a 'thigh bruise', but the difference is severity can't be known without more specific information. 

 Also, for several reasons, bone bruises typically take longer to heal than soft tissue bruises. They are a fairly difficult thing to treat.

[drjim]

The first part is opinion. You and I are not equipped to know if any of them could have been prevented, period. So please don't imply that your opinion is more valid or fact based than mine.

 

Secondly, I'd sure as hell hope the doctors are giving imput into more than just the diagnosis and surgery. I'd hope they have some input on training, mechanics, rehab vs. surgery odds, recovery, etc.

 

If they don't, perhaps that is a problem.

Yes, I'm speculating. But so is anyone saying that better medical staff could not have prevented any of them. Both are speculation, period.

They are part of a competitive, zero sum game. It's not possible that all teams have exactly equally talented medical staffs.

 

It's perfectly fair to wonder if there could be improvement there. No different than wondering if they could improve the pitching coach, or regional scout, etc.

The first part is not really opinion. The Twins actually have injury rates not especially different that other franchises. There is not one big database to check, but looking at all the different available data shows a big nothing.

 

Now, wondering if it could be improved is a really good question, one all franchises are wrestling with. All systems can be improved. I'm more wondering why you seem to think/imply the Twins might have lesser staff?

[Squirrel]

Please stay on topic ... Sano and his injury. This is not about the Twins medical staff. If you want to discuss that, please start your own thread.