Twins fire Dougie Baseball

[nowheresville]

 

 

Terry Ryan would have made the phone call.

 

 

I can tell you this, I know at least one former Twins Minor League coach, who had been a coach in the organization for much longer than Dougie has been coaching, was let go over the phone, and it wasn't Terry Ryan on the other end.

 

That coach - who also had a decent major league career before coaching - was also interviewed after being let go by the Twins and while he admitted he was surprised and disappointed, he also went out of his way to make sure that it was clear, he wasn't mad at the organization and still said many positive things about the Twins and his former bosses.

 

[Jerr]

 

I can tell you this, I know at least one former Twins Minor League coach, who had been a coach in the organization for much longer than Dougie has been coaching, was let go over the phone, and it wasn't Terry Ryan on the other end.

 

That coach - who also had a decent major league career before coaching - was also interviewed after being let go by the Twins and while he admitted he was surprised and disappointed, he also went out of his way to make sure that it was clear, he wasn't mad at the organization and still said many positive things about the Twins and his former bosses.

t\The last line re: Ryan was in anothers'

post that I copied by mistake, as I am not a fan of Ryan.

[Dantes929]

“I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.”

Why would he feel bad for the kids that played for him that are now playing elsewhere?  Does he really think they will have a hard time dealing with it?   Sounded rather passive aggressive to me.

[Wyorev]

After having a "parting of the ways" with a number of co-workers / employees, I've come to say that "how you leave says a lot about who you are." 

As others have noted, losing your job can be pretty difficult, and one might not be at his best with the press at that moment. That being said. . . Mr. Mientkiewicz probably could have handled that a good bit better. It seems that most do. As has been noted, Mientkiewicz didn't leave on the best of terms as a player. Not something to hold against him though, the Twins didn't. (Something I admire about this organization.)

[Difficult sentence warning ->]

I also suspect that we might well not know enough of the story to say with any authority, anything about the character of any Twins employees.

[The Wise One]

The final word on this is in. Who knows more than the man on the inside of baseball

http://m.startribune.com/minnesota-twins-on-doug-mientkiewicz/444852373/

[The Wise One]

Give credit to the former minor league manager for his work with hitting. Doug could do that. How many overuse injuries came up on his teams by pitchers when they pitched for him or the year after?  There is offense, then there is defense. Maybe Dougie ought to be a hitting coach.   

 

To call his non renewal classless one ought to remember the front office really never said a reason.  Class keeps leaks from sprouting.  I am confident that had the front office wanted to embarrass him, leaks to any of the inside the rope, and outsiders and friends of friends would have the information by now. 

[twinssouth]

Mientkiewicz was a good Manager. He got the most out of his players, they played hard, respected him and supported them. He worked with his players on developing or improving skills and most of all, the kids liked playing for him. Just look at his results in Chattanooga and Ft Meyers. If his on field antics were too much (I think they are overblown) he wouldnt have had the results Our current Young Twins "core" all passed thru Doug's teams. Results matter.

 

 

Sometimes new Management (especially younger Management) make change for the sake of change. This Management team seems to do that. They made a questionable decision on Garcia by prematurely throwing in the towel and now this one.

 

 

In regards to Rasmussen, now that was a GOOD decision. He should have been let go years ago. Look at his results in developing pitching You can count on one hand the number of starting pitchers that have come thru the system under his watch.

[Major League Ready]

He refused to embrace analytics..  I would think that alone would be enough to support not renewing his contract..  The old regime was rightfully admonished for not be aggressive with analytics and now the new regime is being admonished for removing people flat out refuse to consider analytics.  That makes absolutely no sense.

 

Apparently, he did not follow the guidelines established for pitchers.  Middle managers don't get to ignore established policies..   I would have given him a warning the first time and fired him on the second.

 

Participating in a physical altercation with another manger might have also been cause for firing or at least not renewing his contract..  He also had a long established track-record for reacting poorly and no filter with with the press..  There seems to be more than adequate reasons for not renewing his contract.  Even if he had been fired as opposed to not renewing his contract, firing is ALWAYS done by the supervisor..  A long-time employee may get a call thanking him/her for their contributions.  However, when you disregard the instruction/policies of the organization, you are less likely to get such a call and when you run to the press and cry the likelihood is further reduced.

 

There was constant complaint here about the Twins Country Club, yet people are complaining that the new regime they wanted does not continue the country club ways.

 

 

[Doctor Wu]

Justified or not, the timing of the announcement was a bit unfortunate, seeing as how Mientkiewicz was at  home down in Florida, without power or cell phone access, trying to clean up after the hurricane at the time. Yahoo News, for one, made the Twins front office look like a bunch of heartless creeps in their article about the dismissal.

[Han Joelo]

The Yahoo! version of the story: Doug Mientkiewicz fired by Twins while dealing with aftermath of Hurricane Irma - Yahoo Sports

https://apple.news/A1PKwcRq2SlKN2R8e66Oflw.

 

Same stuff, but it makes my opinion of Dougie drop. Feels almost like he knew it was coming and was looking for ammo to fight back with. Plus, I despise it when "ever" and "never" are used in disputes. There are many more sadder stories coming out of Hurricane Irma than a baseball guy with hurt feelings about his contract not being renewed.

 

Also, who whacked Rasmussen? Why is this not a story?

 

Last: All of Dougies former players, who learned everything they know about grit and tenacity while playing for him, sucked last night, losing one for the "Dooger."

[Shaitan]

 

“I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.”

Why would he feel bad for the kids that played for him that are now playing elsewhere?  Does he really think they will have a hard time dealing with it?   Sounded rather passive aggressive to me.

 

I read it as straight-up aggressive.

[Riverbrian]

Even when a firing is handled correctly, perfectly or as God intended. It would still be pretty rare that all parties involved are without scars afterwards so I will ignore any emotional responses from Doug or us TD posters. Firings suck period and if anyone has perfected how to do it... I offer you congrats and feel sorry for you at the same time... It's a crappy job.

 

 

It doesn't matter if Doug has been with the Twins since 1961. Doug isn't owed an explanation.

 

We are letting you go for cause, this is your severance agreement, this is the amount, you have X amount of days to sign and return. I'll be escorting you to the door. We will mail any personal belongings to you.

 

This is how workers are let go every day. Doug doesn't deserve better than the Senior Tool and Die Engineer who was just fired from Ford after 25 years. 

 

When I asked for change at the top. I knew I was asking for change throughout the organization and I knew that was what I ultimately wanted. I don't know the names or roles of each individual to approve or disapprove each move and I won't.

 

I asked for change knowing full well what it meant. 

 

This is what I asked for. 

 

 

[Craig Arko]

Perhaps it the acceptance of 'this is how workers are let go every day' that's part of the problem.

[Riverbrian]

 

Perhaps it the acceptance of 'this is how workers are let go every day' that's part of the problem.

 

I agree, I hate firings and everything involved. However... the current method is the product of trial and error. 

 

Necessity is the mother of invention. Wrongful termination lawsuits create that necessity rather quickly. 

 

Steil knows he can't go into detail for multiple reasons. 

 

 

[USAFChief]

Perhaps it the acceptance of 'this is how workers are let go every day' that's part of the problem.

He'd be the equivalent to the operations officer at one of 6 or so satellite factories of a corporation. Long history with the company, hired personally by former senior management. Entrusted with development and production of the company's most important product. Not a line worker. Senior management will be consulted on his replacement.

 

I don't think "that's how people are fired every day" is a relevant analogy.

 

Again...no problem with letting him go. But every business is a people business, and this was handled poorly.

[DaveW]

 

He'd be the equivalent to the operations officer at one of 6 or so satellite factories of a corporation. Long history with the company, hired personally by former senior management. Entrusted with development and production of the company's most important product. Not a line worker. Senior management will be consulted on his replacement.

I don't think "that's how people are fired every day" is a relevant analogy.

Again...no problem with letting him go. But every business is a people business, and this was handled poorly.

Yup. Nothing the new regime has done has inspired confidence in me.

This is just another example of how they aren't pros, and aren't ready to run orgs. 

The Twins lose a couple tough games against the Dodgers and Astros and they hit the PANIC button and trade away our closer for NO reason. Now they don't even have the class to fire a long term manager in the org (not to mention a fan favorite!) Dougie M deserved much better than this. Hopefully it won't happen again in the future.

These guys seem completely out of touch.

[nicksaviking]

“I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.”

Why would he feel bad for the kids that played for him that are now playing elsewhere?  Does he really think they will have a hard time dealing with it?   Sounded rather passive aggressive to me.

That quote was my second favorite after the one about how he said he was heroically cleaning up his whole neighborhood when the villainous Twins dropped the news on him.

 

I wonder if it's even occurred to him that the fact that the Twins haven't publicly disclosed why he got axed and that they did it ASAP is actually a benefit to his future employment?

[Riverbrian]

 

He'd be the equivalent to the operations officer at one of 6 or so satellite factories of a corporation. Long history with the company, hired personally by former senior management. Entrusted with development and production of the company's most important product. Not a line worker. Senior management will be consulted on his replacement.

I don't think "that's how people are fired every day" is a relevant analogy.

Again...no problem with letting him go. But every business is a people business, and this was handled poorly.

 

Based upon information provided by a single source?

 

The bottom line: Doug is no longer employed by the Twins. Doug needs to focus on Doug now which is always the case but more so now than ever because Doug needs to move on to his next destination. 

 

Nobody is ever done a favor by being fired so I'm not going to read too much into Thad's comments about the timing. 

 

Nobody wants to be fired after a hurricane, nobody wants to be fired before or after Christmas and nobody wants to get fired on or around their birthdays or anniversaries or their kids birthdays or whenever so I'm not going to read too much into Doug's comments either. 

 

 

The season is over... decisions for next year were being made. The Hurricane came through Ft. Myers September 10th as an unrelated circumstance. 

 

I would hope that Falvey and Levine were completely aware of the situation but I also believe that it is possible (not probable or any degree of likelihood) that the decision was the agreed upon recommendation from someone or others who are not named Falvey or Levine.

 

I do not know if Falvey or Levine offered to make the phone call, demanded that Steil do it or if Steil said... "I'll take care of it" so Falvey or Levine wouldn't have to.  

 

Firings suck period there is never a good time and there is never a good method. 

 

All I know is this... I'm not going to claim it was handled badly without knowledge from both sides of how it was handled. I'm not going to speculate on the reasons why it was done without the reasons why it was done. 

 

However, I am going to take personal responsibility for my actions. I supported a change at the top last year and I got my wish. No actions were taken on my behalf obviously so I'm not responsible in that sense but I supported a change at the top... And...I knew that a change at the top would lead to this type of thing involving many people that I have never met and I signed off on this every single time I posted that it was time for Terry Ryan to go. It's why it took me 5 years to finally post that I felt it was time for a change because I knew the cause and effect. Even though my opinion is worthless, I still understand that I supported it. 

 

I asked for this and more... I got what I asked for with probably more to come... I'm not going to contradict myself over emotions at this point.  

 

It's over... it's done. Doug will be managing with another minor league team next year or he will choose to enter the trucking industry. 

 

Firings suck... I hate them and I'd rather be nowhere near them. But, I asked for this. Anybody who typed the words, Terry Ryan must go asked for this. 

[Squirrel]

 

That quote was my second favorite after the one about how he said he was heroically cleaning up his whole neighborhood when the villainous Twins dropped the news on him.

I wonder if it's even occurred to him that the fact that the Twins haven't publicly disclosed why he got axed and that they did it ASAP is actually a benefit to his future employment?

Well, he wasn't in this neighborhood ... no one was ... 

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2017/09/12/hurricane-irma-immokalee-florida-griffin-orig-js.cnn

[Riverbrian]

 

I'm a big fan of Dougie Baseball. I like players who look like they are trying harder than everyone else. Yeah, guys like Robbie Cano are good and fun to watch but they make it look too easy. My favorite players are the ones who do well, but make it look hard. That's the way I played growing up, max effort at everything or else it isn't gonna work. 

 

That being said, he sure sounds petty after being fired. If that's the way you handle it, it just shows they made the right decision. We don't need that vitriol in our minor leagues.

 

I'm still blown away that Falvey and Levine weren't allowed to pick their own manager. I don't see much point in evaluating them based on this year. They are using someone else's pieces. Since the draft I've said "It looks like they have a plan." Let's let them execute it and then see whats up. I hope Molly goes next and then anyone else they want to fire. Gotta let them do their thing for a minute and see how it goes. Otherwise, why hire them?

 

I agree with this post with one difference.

 

I'm ok with Falvey and Levine coming in and evaluating existing staff before making any decisions on them. 

[crop duster]

Just so we're clear, you're talking about the guy with zero wins since the trade who has a 4.60 ERA, 7.4 K/9, 5.2 BB/9 and a WHIP of 1.71

 

Indeed and just to be more clear do you realize that line is still better than the combined line by Gee, Melville, Enns and Slegers in 6 starts since with 22.2 IP and 29 ER.

 

Garcia is not the first guy to wilt in NY I do believe his line would have been slightly better here.

[old nurse]

 

Indeed and just to be more clear do you realize that line is still better than the combined line by Gee, Melville, Enns and Slegers in 6 starts since with 22.2 IP and 29 ER.

Garcia is not the first guy to wilt in NY I do believe his line would have been slightly better here.

Garcia has 0 wins, Gee has 1 as a starter. Sample sizes for statistics as a measure of talent are way too small. The youthful talent that fans clamor for has zero wins. In aggregate it is bad stats versus bad stats. You are debating a moot point.

[DaveW]

 

Indeed and just to be more clear do you realize that line is still better than the combined line by Gee, Melville, Enns and Slegers in 6 starts since with 22.2 IP and 29 ER.

Garcia is not the first guy to wilt in NY I do believe his line would have been slightly better here.

Not to mention the Twins have a superior defense by far over the Yankees. Garcia would have done well here, the equation for even moderate success is simple with this club as a pitcher:

1. Keep the ball in the park
2. Don't walk anyone

The defense will bail you out more often than not.

It was still a dumb trade that was caused because of a couple bad games against the two hottest teams in baseball (IIRC the Twins had their chances in a few of those games anyways), the Kintzler one was even more perplexing.

The one good thing though is it clearly pissed off Mauer and Dozier and both have been on fire since then.

[h2oface]

 

“I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.”

Why would he feel bad for the kids that played for him that are now playing elsewhere?  Does he really think they will have a hard time dealing with it?   Sounded rather passive aggressive to me.

 

Interviewed after two days of cleaning up after a hurricane, nerves a bit fried, pissed after the way it came down....... so what. He might say something different if asked today. And people want to dissect every would he says. Like he planned it out like he was making a Twins Daily comment? It shows a connection to his players to me. I like it. And that is direct and aggressive.

[h2oface]

However classless it was, or what one feels about the process, I think it is a short sighted, and stupid move, because Doug is and was a winner. He made players better, and instilled spirit. Period. And they tired to spin it like they were doing him a favor. Do I hope they are just a carefree with replacing Molitor? No I don't. I hope they do it respectfully and kindly, and in person.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

That's just how things work? Such BS. Things work the way people chose them to work, regardless of precedent.

indeed they do. Why have a director of minor league operations who doesn't have authority to hire/fire/extend minor league managerial and coaching personnel? It's not like Steil is an intern. He's a director.

 

I'm sure Falvine had influence in the decision, but maybe it was only Steil's decision. If were Brad Steil I would be PO'ed if my boss usurped my authority to hire and fire. I'm sure there would be discussions over qualifications and traits for what managers should be, and I would probably seek the new FO's input, esp with how new this all is for all of them.

 

At the end of the day, directors need the authority to make decisions and autonomy to be accountable to their subordinates

[ThejacKmp]

 

yeah, we don't know if it's fair or not since there are different styles of leadership.  I imagine Joe is more of a lead by example kind who doesn't crave or need attention on him all the time.  Not every leader needs to lead by running his mouth off and getting in fights with teammates.

 

Oh I don't think Joe's a bad leader or a negative presence in the clubhouse. He just isn't your rah-rah leader. It'll be interesting to see who is on the next round of Twins. Escobar and Dozier seem like guys who are leaders for the next year or two but then it's kind of a vacuum.

[Major League Ready]

 

However classless it was, or what one feels about the process, I think it is a short sighted, and stupid move, because Doug is and was a winner. He made players better, and instilled spirit. Period. And they tired to spin it like they were doing him a favor. Do I hope they are just a carefree with replacing Molitor? No I don't. I hope they do it respectfully and kindly, and in person.

 

Are you really saying the expected norm is for a guy who is not the guys boss should fly across the country to tell a guy they are not renewing his contract?   You are expect something far beyond the norm to be done and lets keep in mind this exceptional treatment is being expected for a guy who defied the direction he was given.  I have done business with about half the fortune 500 hundred over the course of my career and in the vast majority of cases someone who refused to follow directions and had no filter would not only not get preferential treatment when there contract was up, they never would have reached the end of the contract.  IMO, this is a case of defending a player over management with disregard for the facts.  

 

I reported to the CEO my last 3 jobs and never once was there even a thought of them having a conversation with someone I let go much less a contract that I did not renew and there have been well in excess of a hundred such contracts.  I can see saying it would have been nice had Falvey or Levine called after the fact because its simply not correct to have the highest authority fire someone that does not report to them.  However, to be in the least bit outraged is (well) outrageous.   Plus, he might have received that call had he handled himself professionally.  For all we know, Falvey or Levine did call or still might call at a later date.

 

Fans is drawn from Fanatic so I guess I rational interpretation of the events should not to be expected.

[spinowner]

From the Twins' web site, here is Brad Steil's title:

Director, Minor League Operations.

It sure seems to me that this title means he's the one to make the decision about who manages the High-A team in Ft. Myers. I'm sure Falvine give him feedback on this but he's in charge. So he's the one who should deliver news about employment or the termination thereof. I can certainly understand Mient being unhappy but IMHO, it was handled the way it should have been handled.

[Dantes929]

 

Interviewed after two days of cleaning up after a hurricane, nerves a bit fried, pissed after the way it came down....... so what. He might say something different if asked today. And people want to dissect every would he says. Like he planned it out like he was making a Twins Daily comment? It shows a connection to his players to me. I like it. And that is direct and aggressive.

Well, we are dissecting every other little thing on here including perceived motivations and slights.   At least I dissected a direct quote.   Actually, dissecting that quote wouldn't have been bad.    Something to the effect of "I feel bad for the kids I am coaching because we have built a relationship."    And then to defend his work he can say "Ask what the current major leaguers think of my managing"     The sentence as it was had no logical connection.     I don't dislike Doug M and yes, he might have said something different today.