I would comment on this but I don't want to try to spell Mientkiewicz

 

Concur, although it will probably take 3-5 years before the pudding can be evaluated. That's because this is baseball, where teams sign kids who are 16 years old hoping they'll be good players by age 25.

Well, not completely disagreeing ... but we should see some results of their thinking/plan this off-season and into next season. I'm not saying that if we don't win the WS next year they are toast ... but I think we should start seeing results, one way or another.

Well, not completely disagreeing ... but we should see some results of their thinking/plan this off-season and into next season. I'm not saying that if we don't win the WS next year they are toast ... but I think we should start seeing results, one way or another.

I agree. I think by "results," we should probably be looking for roster and personnel decisions that fill needs and each marginally improve the team on the field and the bureaucratic apparatus surrounding it. Hopefully the cumulative effect is a WS championship, though I think it's probably best to evaluate Falvine from the perspective of their decision making. After that, it's up to the guys on the field to perform.

I do not know if the Twin's farm system has more injuries to pitchers than others but it does seem like there are a lot.  The  minor leagues are about developing first, winning second. It does not do the development of the pitchers much good to be in rehab.  Strict pitch counts, usage patterns and innings limits are likely a front office directive.  The pitching coordinator  and manager least likely to follow the directive are not retained  More staff may be going.

I am surprised no one has posted an opinion from one of the more popular columnists in town.

 

http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-twins-on-doug-mientkiewicz/444852373/

 

I am not at all stunned he was let go, if any of the things about his lack of analytical love is correct. It's the way this FO is headed. I can only hope that if the Twins have a winning record, and that if the handling of younger players has no influence on whether you keep your job or not, they have Stiel make the same call to Molitor in early Oct. At least we have a precedent. Nothing in Dougie B.'s history or personality would suggest he was going to take this well. But I agree with those who say that Falvine should have had the balls to call him. He has been around a long time, and while he doesn't need a statue on the plaza, that was a stunning lack of class not to sit down with him and tell him why they were moving on. And if the statement that he the only heard from Falvine once all year is true, that's sort of odd also. While it may be true that Dougie could have handled it with a little less noise, I really don't think Falvine earned that respect with how this was handled.

As Charlie Rich sang: "No one knows what goes on behind closed doors." I just want to say "Thank you" to Dougie Baseball "and I wish you well".

Managers get fired all the time. Douggie will be with another organization soon. Who knows maybe as a MLB manager.

Chain of command! Chaos without it. 

Edited September 16, 20179 yr by brvama

Great conversation everybody.  Thanks to you I'm convinced letting him go was the right thing.  I was one who was surprised at first, because I thought he was a made man.  Maybe for Steil to get "made," his test was whacking Dougie.

 

I have no context for whether or not this was handled right.  In a small business, sure, the boss does the deed.  If TR had fired Dougie, it would have been for different reasons, and I can imagine given their history, TR would have made the call, or been in Florida cleaning up ala Jimmy Carter and just told him over a brewski.

 

I'm having enough trouble just multi-tasking all of the BS in my life.  I can't find the time to comment on TD lately, let alone respond to emails in a timely fashion.  I guess I am glad the top dog of the Twins knows how to delegate.  I hope he is in Japan right now talking to Oteni, or something similarly productive.

 

 And, from what I've read about DM, I'm sure there was a fear that a face to face could have resulted in an ugly situation.   

Maybe it's just a matter of style. Do you want your young players to act more like Gladden/Morris, or more like Kepler/Mauer? Both kinds can win games. Fiery competitors tend to get into more fistfights, get suspended and fined. But sometimes a team needs somebody to fire them up. Maybe the front office decided they don't want too many players that test the limits of an umpire's patience. 

Dougie got thrown out of games. His players got thrown out of games.

There is a point where the manager showing no respect for the umpire bleeds into the players, and that is a bad thing. Dougie clearly disappointed Terry Ryan when he got thrown out of that one game before it started. Not sure he'd be here next year even if TR were still in charge.

And that 'proudly ignoring analytics' thing. Really?

Goodbye and good luck. I'll lose no sleep over this move.

The arrogance displayed--amazing.  "Dougie" comes a callin' 5 years ago and basically says"  I'm an ex-Twin, I'm 'old-school' and think, talk and act just like the rest of the Twins' gang".  I'm looking to serve and build a second career just like Gardy".

 

Fast-forward to the end of 2016 and the wind of change blew.  Did "Dougie" see the implication?  Did Dougie talk to the new regime and ask how he could best serve them?  I doubt it.

 

So "Dougie", the answer to your question of who fired you is:  You fired yourself.  True, Mr. Pohlad made a decision that placed him in grave danger, but "Dougie" failed his last chance.

 

I can only hope that if the Twins have a winning record, and that if the handling of younger players has no influence on whether you keep your job or not, they have Stiel make the same call to Molitor in early Oct.

 

Stiel isn't Molitor's boss...

 

He's brilliant -- and not going anywhere. They hired him. 

 

i just don't want him to get hired away. Or Hernandez, that guy deserves a lot of credit too.

 

I agree with the Meintkiewcz take, not sure about Hunter though. I don't remember him blasting the team, I just remember him casually lamenting that they never actually gave him an offer, which no one on the team ever disputed to my knowledge.

 

Hunter rejected the Twins' three-year, $45 million offer in August of that year. I don't blame him at all, he deserved to go out and get paid. But don't complain when a small market team makes a relatively big offer and then can't match the one you get from a big market team.

 

He bashed Mauer for his leadership skills (fair but unnecessary) and questioned Morneau's work ethic and how Gardy handled players (not Gardy's big problem actually - he sucked at the managing the game part, I never though players didn't play hard for him).

 

I just don't get bashing an employer on the way out, especially when you're moving on to something better. Be classy.

Stiel isn't Molitor's boss...

I am well aware of that. But since Falvine had neither the decency, courtesy, or fortitude to call or visit a long time Twins employee and let him go in person, I naturally assumed they would again delegate (abdicate) authority!

 

Hunter rejected the Twins' three-year, $45 million offer in August of that year. I don't blame him at all, he deserved to go out and get paid. But don't complain when a small market team makes a relatively big offer and then can't match the one you get from a big market team.

 

He bashed Mauer for his leadership skills (fair but unnecessary) 

yeah, we don't know if it's fair or not since there are different styles of leadership.  I imagine Joe is more of a lead by example kind who doesn't crave or need attention on him all the time.  Not every leader needs to lead by running his mouth off and getting in fights with teammates.

Edited September 16, 20179 yr by jimmer

Doug M was a low level manager.  The POBO or GM doesn't need to be the one who fires him. Nothing cowardly about letting Stiel do it.  It's who should have done it.

 

Even though I am a big fan of Doug M (still have a jersey with his name on it), I agree with all of this.

Went downtown to get tickets for the  Twins game for the next day, with NOT planning ahead, with my young Son.

Turned out that game was Dougies' bobblehead give away and people were already lining up.... ended up spending a nice night on the Metro-Dome cement walkway, as my Son went right to sleep..... and I spent most of the night watching the hawks and some annoying kid, riding his skate board around and around the cement walkway, making the same annoying noises on the cement until about 4 AM....great memories and that bobblehead, rocks to this day!!!

All the best to Dougie , as his last name??? Way too hard to type/text, but will always be remembered here!!!!!!!

I stand by my opinion.  This wasn't just another employee.  This was the manager of one of a handful of minor league teams in your system.  A very important piece of your organization.

 

I guarantee Falvine had the final say so on his non-retention.  And they'll have the final say so on his replacement. They should have been the ones to tell him.

 

It's classless.  

 

I am surprised no one has posted an opinion from one of the more popular columnists in town.

http://www.startribune.com/minnesota-twins-on-doug-mientkiewicz/444852373/

I am not at all stunned he was let go, if any of the things about his lack of analytical love is correct. It's the way this FO is headed. I can only hope that if the Twins have a winning record, and that if the handling of younger players has no influence on whether you keep your job or not, they have Stiel make the same call to Molitor in early Oct. At least we have a precedent. Nothing in Dougie B.'s history or personality would suggest he was going to take this well. But I agree with those who say that Falvine should have had the balls to call him. He has been around a long time, and while he doesn't need a statue on the plaza, that was a stunning lack of class not to sit down with him and tell him why they were moving on. And if the statement that he the only heard from Falvine once all year is true, that's sort of odd also. While it may be true that Dougie could have handled it with a little less noise, I really don't think Falvine earned that respect with how this was handled.

From your shared Souhan article:

 

Falvey and Levine make the big bucks and hold the big titles. If they’re going to fire someone who has been with the organization on and off for a long time, they shouldn’t make one of their subordinates make the phone call.

Falvey and Levine should make the phone call.
Terry Ryan would have made the phone call.

 

My feelings here, as a fan since day one!!!! 1961, and baseball was the only game in town, and I was 8 yrs. old.

 

 

 

 

I stand by my opinion.  This wasn't just another employee.  This was the manager of one of a handful of minor league teams in your system.  A very important piece of your organization.

 

I guarantee Falvine had the final say so on his non-retention.  And they'll have the final say so on his replacement. They should have been the ones to tell him.

 

It's classless.  

I wonder how those players, that came up thru Dougie will feel? It is quite a list of current players.....

 

And CONCUR, Chief        

Edited September 17, 20179 yr by Jerr

 

I agree with the Meintkiewcz take, not sure about Hunter though. I don't remember him blasting the team, I just remember him casually lamenting that they never actually gave him an offer, which no one on the team ever disputed to my knowledge.

 

Facts Here:

 

The Twins made a 3 year $45 million offer.  He wanted more years and more money and left without even making a counter proposal.  From there:

 

"I didn't want to leave the Twins," Hunter said. "I just felt like they were ready to leave me. They thought I was too old to do a five-year deal."

Hunter rejected the Twins' three-year, $45 million offer in August. Three months passed without a new proposal.

 

Hunter made his decision without having one last conversation with the Twins. But Reynolds had called Smith late last week, hinting that other teams were getting serious.

 

Perhaps the Twins were waiting for a counter proposal from Hunter, but they never changed their original offer.

 

Two I Torii was all for himself and not the Twins, regardless the revisionist history.  They offered him $15M a year for 3 years and he decided a. not to accept and b. not to come back with a counter offer.

 

 

 

Doug unfortunately didn't find the entrance ramp onto the Denny Green high road.

 

Facts Here:

 

The Twins made a 3 year $45 million offer.  He wanted more years and more money and left without even making a counter proposal.  From there:

 

"I didn't want to leave the Twins," Hunter said. "I just felt like they were ready to leave me. They thought I was too old to do a five-year deal."

Hunter rejected the Twins' three-year, $45 million offer in August. Three months passed without a new proposal.

 

Hunter made his decision without having one last conversation with the Twins. But Reynolds had called Smith late last week, hinting that other teams were getting serious.

 

Perhaps the Twins were waiting for a counter proposal from Hunter, but they never changed their original offer.

 

Two I Torii was all for himself and not the Twins, regardless the revisionist history.  They offered him $15M a year for 3 years and he decided a. not to accept and b. not to come back with a counter offer.

Let me get this straight...the Twins make one, sub-market offer, in August, and Hunter rejects it.

 

The Twins never make another offer, and he knows the offer is about 2 years and 30-45 million dollars below what he can get as a free agent.

 

And it's HUNTER that's at fault?

 

Yeah...that's a fair take.

Lets not forget they waited till the last minute to even make an offer to the the veteran Hunter. Hunter had mentioned he had tried to get something worked out before the season even happened. Nothing but crickets.

 

They made an offer in August they knew he wouldnt take, especially after seeing what Gary Matthews Jr had just gotten. I imagine they knew some fans would turn on Hunter for leaving instead of the team for lowballing. And it worked.

This is not about Hunter. Back on topic, please. There is no correlation between the two.

 

I am well aware of that. But since Falvine had neither the decency, courtesy, or fortitude to call or visit a long time Twins employee and let him go in person, I naturally assumed they would again delegate (abdicate) authority!

 

I stand by my opinion.  This wasn't just another employee.  This was the manager of one of a handful of minor league teams in your system.  A very important piece of your organization.

 

I guarantee Falvine had the final say so on his non-retention.  And they'll have the final say so on his replacement. They should have been the ones to tell him.

 

It's classless.  

 

In the end - it was an employee. A manager of a minor league team. Like it or not, baseball is a business. Those franchises that are successful run their franchise in a business-like manner. It's hard to hear as a fan, especially when the franchise has been run as a "old boys' network" for so many years, but that's just not how a successful organization runs.

Steil was his boss and he made the call.  It could be it was his call, it could be the decision was made over his head.  Dougie does not have to know who made the call, as to pillar the person in the papers.  His contract was not renewed, it is like any contract employee, in some companies you can stay for years, in some there are limits.  

I suspect that the early descision was that Dougie was not going to be a major league manager in the organization. Then it went to examples and Dougie's disrepect of management directions he was expected to follow.  His popularity may have saved him to the end of the year, in some orgainizations he could have been let go in midseason.  That would have been a bigger black mark to his baseball managing future.

 

MLB GMs do not make phone calls to minor league coaches who aren't having their contracts renewed. That's just not how things work. Just because someone is famous from his past career as a player doesn't mean he should get special treatment.

 

That's just how things work? Such BS. Things work the way people chose them to work, regardless of precedent.