2017-2018 Vikings Regular Season

[Mr. Brooks]

  On 12/22/2017 at 2:44 AM, TheLeviathan said:

The problem was your insistence on ignoring the injuries. You crowned the Cowboys the gods of NFL roster construction for using 1sts on linemen. Have you seen the way they played when their LT went down? Those first round centers and guards didn't matter one bit as Dak Prescott was getting slaughtered. And all that took was the Cowboys losing two tackles. We were down 4 at one point! Your criticisms lacked context and fairness.

 

This team is no different. Take out 3-6 linemen like we had last year and this line would be terrible too. Look no further than the end of that Carolina game when Elflein, Remmers, and Reiff were all out. Keenum was getting slaughtered.

 

Your criticisms never took into consideration just how bad offensive line play is across the league. I'd venture to guess 3/4 of the team have poor lines. When there is that little talent, depth is basically impossible to have. The key to this line hasn't been some magical number of right moves (though Reiff has outplayed expectations by a long shot) - the key has been health.

 

Health really comes down to luck unfortunately. But it was unfair to pin on Spielman a bad line when the situation the Vikings faced would have made ANY line in the NFL a sieve. You incorrectly faulted drafting 3rd and 4th round OL ( and, as far as money goes, they were spending plenty on Kalil, Smith, Mike Harris, and Phil Loadhoalt that year) as the problem, when it was just bad luck. The kind of bad luck no NFL roster survives.

Injuries aren't purely luck though. There are fluke injuries, sure, but durability is also an attribute, just like other physical attributes in sports. Many of the guys on the O-line the last couple of years had extensive injury histories, and were not surprising at all to see them injured once again.

[Mr. Brooks]

  On 12/22/2017 at 2:41 AM, TheLeviathan said:

Since when is a third round pick a "high draft pick"? I'm all for spending 3rd rounders on OL.

 

Reiff was actually a moderate buy in FA, not exactly a bank busting move. What Mike has been calling for is investing nearly every first round draft pick in offensive linemen.

 

That was, and remains, flawed thinking.

Sure, any strategy that calls for automatically selecting a specific position anywhere is flawed. But that doesn't mean you ignore a position early either.

And yes, I do consider 3rd round a high draft pick for a center. How many centers went ahead of him?

Aside from Kalil, how many offensive lineman has Spielman drafted in the first three rounds? Very few. I'm happy he grabbed one this year, and it sure looks to have paid off.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 12/22/2017 at 3:03 AM, Mr. Brooks said:

Sure, any strategy that calls for automatically selecting a specific position anywhere is flawed. But that doesn't mean you ignore a position early either.
And yes, I do consider 3rd round a high draft pick for a center. How many centers went ahead of him?
Aside from Kalil, how many offensive lineman has Spielman drafted in the first three rounds? Very few. I'm happy he grabbed one this year, and it sure looks to have paid off.

 

Elflein was considered a Guard/Center.  I loved the Elflein pick, but I'm not one to insist we have to take certain positions at certain levels.  

 

I think C and G should be addressed in the 3rd round or later.  The only time I want an early lineman is a tackle and even then....I'm not sure I would any more.  College lineman are just terrible by and large.

 

As for injuries - Kalil was one of the most durable LTs in all of football until last year.  We had THREE options for RT that were all gone within the first few weeks.  Boone and Fusco weren't injury prone players either.  So I'm not sure I buy the idea that he stocked the line with injury prone guys either.

 

Also, I should note, I think one of the biggest changes is schematic.  Zone blocking is a much better scheme in the NFL these days so the switch to that look has been a blessing.  (Yet another reason to be happy Peterson is gone)

[Doomtints]

Letting Kalil go was the best thing the Vikings did to improve the OL. He was always the first player to collapse the pocket, often the only player, as he jumped backwards on every play. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 12/22/2017 at 2:41 AM, TheLeviathan said:

Since when is a third round pick a "high draft pick"?  I'm all for spending 3rd rounders on OL.  

 

Reiff was actually a moderate buy in FA, not exactly a bank busting move.  What Mike has been calling for is investing nearly every first round draft pick in offensive linemen.

 

That was, and remains, flawed thinking.

 

One high pick, not every high pick. 

[TheLeviathan]

They spent one....Kalil.

[Mr. Brooks]

The win came at a price. Fractured ankle for Easton.

[Vanimal46]

I could only watch the first quarter before heading to a Christmas party.... It looked like a slip and slide course out there. Did Zimmer play backups in the 2nd half?

[Mr. Brooks]

Yikes. That might have been the worst punt coverage I've ever seen.

They better not find a way to lose this one. (I don't think they will. )

[Vanimal46]

I hope we see Teddy and the backups play in the 2nd half today. No reason at all to get any starters injured today. The win feels pretty secure right now.

[Vanimal46]

Not sure it's smart the starters are still in the game.

[Mike Sixel]

This offense just does not impress me.

[Vanimal46]

  On 12/31/2017 at 8:47 PM, Mike Sixel said:

This offense just does not impress me.

Fortunately the Eagles are a mess now without their QB. The Rams may be too young to get it done this year. I'm concerned about the Saints and Falcons/Seahawks. Whoever sneaks in as the 6th seed.

[Mike Sixel]

  On 12/31/2017 at 8:57 PM, Vanimal46 said:

Fortunately the Eagles are a mess now without their QB. The Rams may be too young to get it done this year. I'm concerned about the Saints and Falcons/Seahawks. Whoever sneaks in as the 6th seed.

Not worried about the eagles. agreed

[Vanimal46]

I never would have guessed this was a 13 win team in August... It's been fun watching the defense grow into a dominant force. It's also nice to see Keenum prove all of the doubters wrong.

 

Waynes has really grown on me this year after thinking he needed to be replaced the previous 2 years.

 

The playoffs are going to be fun to watch! Skol!!

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm worried about Keenum's lack of ability throwing the deep ball. It seems like every time a guy has a step and a half on his guy downfield, Keenum underthrows it.

The last 3 weeks, it's resulted in some PA calls, but I fear that won't happen against playoff defenses.

[Mike Sixel]

  On 12/31/2017 at 9:49 PM, Mr. Brooks said:

I'm worried about Keenum's lack of ability throwing the deep ball. It seems like every time a guy has a step and a half on his guy downfield, Keenum underthrows it.

The last 3 weeks, it's resulted in some PA calls, but I fear that won't happen against playoff defenses.

Or out of bounds.

[drjim]

They have their flaws (Keenum), but they are the favorites in the nfc right now.

 

Amazing they got to this place. A well coached, mean and nasty D, with playmakers on offense. That formula can win it all.

[TheLeviathan]

  On 12/31/2017 at 10:16 PM, drjim said:

They have their flaws (Keenum), but they are the favorites in the nfc right now.

Amazing they got to this place. A well coached, mean and nasty D, with playmakers on offense. That formula can win it all.

Every team has flaws and reasons to worry. But I don’t think any team in the league is as complete as the Vikings.

 

Doesn’t mean they win it all, but it gives them a helluva shot.

[Mike Sixel]

  On 12/31/2017 at 10:52 PM, TheLeviathan said:

Every team has flaws and reasons to worry. But I don’t think any team in the league is as complete as the Vikings.

Doesn’t mean they win it all, but it gives them a helluva shot.

Pittsburgh and New England are at least their equals.

[TheLeviathan]

 

  On 12/31/2017 at 11:33 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Pittsburgh and New England are at least their equals.

 

Pittsburgh is a pretty complete team, but they have a serious issue with their play on the road.

 

New England?  In terms of being complete?  I'm not sure about that.  New England has some serious defensive issues - they were the fourth worst team in yardage allowed and have some issues with their linebackers.  

 

But both of those teams have significantly better QBs....and that matters a lot.  

[Mike Sixel]

New England gave up the seventh least points..... Pittsburgh the fifth. They both outscored the Vikings. I guess we disagree.

[TheLeviathan]

The Patriots were a bend but don't break defense.  I don't know about you, but I've seen enough of those to know I shouldn't count on that.

 

They are a significantly better offensive team than the Vikings, however.  Both teams are.  But the Vikings have only one peer on defense and that's the Jaguars.

[Heezy1323]

 

  On 1/1/2018 at 12:36 AM, Mike Sixel said:

New England gave up the seventh least points..... Pittsburgh the fifth. They both outscored the Vikings. I guess we disagree.

While this is true, NE finished 29th in yards/game allowed and 27th in third down conversion percentage allowed. The Vikings finished 10th in offensive yards per game and 3rd on third down conversions (on offense). Points can be skewed by a missed field goal, bad weather, etc more easily than yards. I'm not saying the Vikes would be a favorite vs. the Pats, but I like our chances as much as anyone's. 

 Hoping Elflein can get healthy. As much as I hate getting sucked back in by the Vikes, they are going to be a tough out. 

[sftwinsfan]

The offense has definitely got to step things up if they want to go anywhere in the playoffs.  With their defense they have a real shot, but lately they just have not looked good on offense.  They don't have much of a down the field passing game going.  Teams seem to jump the medium and shallow stuff since they haven't been able to burn anybody deep (outside of pass interference).  Had guys open deep, but Keenum doesn't seem to have enough arm for it.  He's had a great year, but he's a game manager in my opinion.  Not that it's a bad thing, teams like Baltimore, TB, and Denver have won it without big-time QB play (Manning was a shadow of his former self Denver's SB year).  

[Doomtints]

What bothered me about watching the game yesterday was once the win was assured, the defense looked exactly like the 98 Vikings in that they clearly weren't putting out their best effort. If they do this again against a GOOD team (i.e., in the playoffs), they will lose.

[jimmer]

Congrats to all the Vikings fans here on this site.  I hope your team does well in the playoffs!

[sampleSizeOfOne]

But we have to wait almost two weeks to see them play again...

[Doomtints]

This team can beat anybody in the NFC. Let's see if they pull it off.

 

I don't think the Vikes match up well with the Steelers, but I think they can handle New England or anyone else in the AFC. This is all hypothetical at this point, they have a long way to go.

[Shaitan]

They've partially been phoning it in the last two games, but I do wonder if the league has figured out Keenum now. It seems they're collapsing the pocket on him so he can't escape and make the downfield throws he thrived on in the mid-to-late part of the season when the offense looked so sharp.