Baseball Prospectus ranks 3rd basemen defensively

[Doubles]

Caught this over the weekend.  Sano was ranked 15th out of 30 MLB starting 3rd basemen.  

 

15. "Miguel Sano, Minnesota Twins — There’s no way this is true a year from now. I would not be surprised at all if, a year from now, Sano is a designated hitter, and we all remember with a fond chuckle how that guy who weighs roughly what J.J. Watt does actually manned the hot corner for a season or so. Until his recent lower leg injury, though, Sano was surprising me about once a week by making a play he would not have made in the past, and that a man his size had no business making.

 

Like Mike Moustakas (ranked 21st, in Part 1), he plays fairly deep, and like Moustakas, he sometimes uses his exceptional arm to make up for imperfect footwork or the extra half-second it takes to secure a topspin one-hopper when one stands 6-foot-4. Unlike Moustakas, his athleticism is far better than one would expect, given his size, and so his range is a bit better, and he can make diving or off-balance plays more cleanly. He used to set up in a pretty awkward half-crouch, his feet staggered, really making it hard to move laterally and limiting his range to a step and a dive. He’s amended those habits, and is finding success by playing third base as if he were a smaller guy."

 

Interesting commentary...

[notoriousgod71]

I think that's a fair rating at this time, but I actually think he could improve at third base next season. He was infinitely better this year than last at the hot corner.

[yarnivek1972]

Whether it's about weight or some other issues, it's concerning to me that Sano has started just 79 games at third this year. The prevailing wisdom is that he will likely be limited to DH when he does come back this year. That means he will have started less than half the Twins' games at third.

[drjim]

Whether it's about weight or some other issues, it's concerning to me that Sano has started just 79 games at third this year. The prevailing wisdom is that he will likely be limited to DH when he does come back this year. That means he will have started less than half the Twins' games at third.

Definite cause for concern. And no reason to be especially optimistic it will improve dramatically going forward.

[diehardtwinsfan]

at 15, doesn't that make him average (or slightly above depending on how many 3B made the mark)? I'm not getting the "move him to DH" crowd... not yet at least.

[snap4birds]

 

Caught this over the weekend.  Sano was ranked 15th out of 30 MLB starting 3rd basemen.  

 

15. "Miguel Sano, Minnesota Twins — There’s no way this is true a year from now. I would not be surprised at all if, a year from now, Sano is a designated hitter, and we all remember with a fond chuckle how that guy who weighs roughly what J.J. Watt does actually manned the hot corner for a season or so. Until his recent lower leg injury, though, Sano was surprising me about once a week by making a play he would not have made in the past, and that a man his size had no business making.

 

 

SABR has him at #23 (if I counted right, they have NL & AL on separate pages) at -5.6 DRS.  Disclaimer:  I have no idea if one is more right than the other or if he will be a DH next year.  Even if he is 23rd, with the way he hits I'd say that is acceptable, if he prefers to play 3rd over DH, I'd keep running him out there.

http://sabr.org/sdi/2017-08-27#AL3B

[stringer bell]

 

SABR has him at #23 (if I counted right, they have NL & AL on separate pages) at -5.6 DRS.  Disclaimer:  I have no idea if one is more right than the other or if he will be a DH next year.  Even if he is 23rd, with the way he hits I'd say that is acceptable, if he prefers to play 3rd over DH, I'd keep running him out there.

http://sabr.org/sdi/2017-08-27#AL3B

You mean Bremer and the color guy of the day were a bit off in uttering "gold glove" when Sano made a nice play. I think Sano has been surprisingly good this year at third, but the fact that he again hasn't been able to stay on the field is starting to concern me.

[Thrylos]

If this enlightened author thinks that Sano should be a DH next year, I'd love to hear what he thinks the 15 third basemen ranked below him should be?

 

Here is a link to the article

Matthew Trueblood is the author.

[Doubles]

 

Caught this over the weekend.  Sano was ranked 15th out of 30 MLB starting 3rd basemen.  

 

15. "Miguel Sano, Minnesota Twins — There’s no way this is true a year from now. I would not be surprised at all if, a year from now, Sano is a designated hitter, and we all remember with a fond chuckle how that guy who weighs roughly what J.J. Watt does actually manned the hot corner for a season or so. Until his recent lower leg injury, though, Sano was surprising me about once a week by making a play he would not have made in the past, and that a man his size had no business making.

 

Like Mike Moustakas (ranked 21st, in Part 1), he plays fairly deep, and like Moustakas, he sometimes uses his exceptional arm to make up for imperfect footwork or the extra half-second it takes to secure a topspin one-hopper when one stands 6-foot-4. Unlike Moustakas, his athleticism is far better than one would expect, given his size, and so his range is a bit better, and he can make diving or off-balance plays more cleanly. He used to set up in a pretty awkward half-crouch, his feet staggered, really making it hard to move laterally and limiting his range to a step and a dive. He’s amended those habits, and is finding success by playing third base as if he were a smaller guy."

 

Interesting commentary...

 

How is this any less 'weight-shaming' than the Strib column that was met with so much scorn?

[drjim]

How is this any less 'weight-shaming' than the Strib column that was met with so much scorn?

Because it was written by BP.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

at 15, doesn't that make him average (or slightly above depending on how many 3B made the mark)? I'm not getting the "move him to DH" crowd... not yet at least.

Yeah, exactly. He's holding his own. Maybe that will cause injury issues but is this really a complaint in 2017? The guy fouled a ball off his shin and injured himself. That's not exactly an indictment of Sano's ability to play the field.

[Brock Beauchamp]

How is this any less 'weight-shaming' than the Strib column that was met with so much scorn?

Do they mention that Sano should lose weight or that he should weigh any less than he does now?

 

There's a difference between "he's a big guy, but surprisingly athletic" and "he's a big guy, he should lose some weight or he's going to die of a coronary at age 31 and maybe kill every postseason chance the Twins have for the next decade".*

 

*paraphrased but pretty spot-on with intent

 

Weight shaming is not acknowledging the size of a human being, it's literally SHAMING them because of it. Not a difficult difference to spot.

[Linus]

He's a pro athlete. His level of physical fitness is going to be discussed. I don't understand why people get all offended when somebody notices that Sano is over an optimal playing weight. Nobody insinuated he's a bad guy or lousy ballplayer just that if he were at an optimal weight it would benefit his play. I don't think these are radical ideas here.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

He's a pro athlete. His level of physical fitness is going to be discussed. I don't understand why people get all offended when somebody notices that Sano is over an optimal playing weight. Nobody insinuated he's a bad guy or lousy ballplayer just that if he were at an optimal weight it would benefit his play. I don't think these are radical ideas here.

First, would it actually benefit his play?

 

Second, why was that piece written after Sano took a foul ball off his shin and was injured? Why wasn't it written when he had an OPS over .900 and was helping the Twins stay in contention?

 

Maybe Sano should lose a few pounds. Maybe he can't because that's what his body says it should be. Applying "conventional wisdom" to athlete weight is a lazy argument. Or maybe we should still see 180 lb pitchers and 210 lb linebackers.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Whether it's about weight or some other issues, it's concerning to me that Sano has started just 79 games at third this year. The prevailing wisdom is that he will likely be limited to DH when he does come back this year. That means he will have started less than half the Twins' games at third.

 

Definite cause for concern. And no reason to be especially optimistic it will improve dramatically going forward.

 

I don't know, I feel like this is a bit dishonest with the numbers. Miguel Sano has started 79 games and played in 82 games at 3B. That sounds low until you look at the fact that he's only played in 108 games (21 starts at DH and 8 at 1B). That means he's played at 3B in over 75% of the games he has played in thus far. That's pretty phenomenal considering the Twins bench is heavy on guys whose value comes from IF defense and light on strapping hitters consigned to 1B and DH. He's far surpassed any reasonable expectations this year and should absolutely be at 3B. I have no concerns he's only played 3B in 82 games.

 

The small number of games mainly has to do with injuries. His two most recent and biggest injuries have both had nothing to do with playing the field. They both happened at the plate - he was hit in the hand by a pitch and he hit a ball off his shin. Neither has anything to do with 3B and unless we want him to not bat, I think we should treat them as flukes that can't be avoided.

 

Picking one number and making bold assertions without examining the larger context is pretty disingenuous. That number is not a cause for concern at all. 75% of games at 3B is phenomenal considering what we thought of his chances coming in. Nothing but optimism for Sano, our beloved third baseman of the near and perhaps distant future.

[Linus]

First, would it actually benefit his play?

 

Second, why was that piece written after Sano took a foul ball off his shin and was injured? Why wasn't it written when he had an OPS over .900 and was helping the Twins stay in contention?

 

Maybe Sano should lose a few pounds. Maybe he can't because that's what his body says it should be. Applying "conventional wisdom" to athlete weight is a lazy argument. Or maybe we should still see 180 lb pitchers and 210 lb linebackers.

It probably would. You'll notice I didn't refer to the article at all because I didn't even read it at the time. That's how little I pay attention to Souhan.

 

I don't know what you mean by conventional thinking as I didn't refer to it. I'm merely pointing out that the idea of his physical condition being discussed seems very sensitive around here. It's done all the time in pro sports.

[Doubles]

 

Do they mention that Sano should lose weight or that he should weigh any less than he does now?
 
There's a difference between "he's a big guy, but surprisingly athletic" and "he's a big guy, he should lose some weight or he's going to die of a coronary at age 31 and maybe kill every postseason chance the Twins have for the next decade".*
 
*paraphrased but pretty spot-on with intent
 
Weight shaming is not acknowledging the size of a human being, it's literally SHAMING them because of it. Not a difficult difference to spot.

The Strib column mentions Sano adds value by playing third base, due to his skill & agility, presumably over first base or DH'ing.  Can that even be disputed?

 

The BP column alludes to Sano moving to DH as soon as next year.  Why?  Because his size would prohibit him from adequately playing an infield position?

 

To be clear, I wasn't offended in the least by either column.  But I believe people read with bias just as well as they watch and listen.  I would be very surprised if people would have been so offended by the Souhan column had they not known who wrote it.  Fact of the matter is, Sano is heading to full-time DH status the bigger he gets.  And considering how good he can be defensively, moving to DH decreases his value as a player.      

 

 

 

 

[dbminn]

Sano is a big guy. Charging bunts, scooping them barehanded and rotating the body to make an accurate throw to first would be unexpected at 260 pounds with six-pack abs. He's pretty darn nimble.

 

I think Molitor tried to keep Sano fresh this year while playing to the needs of his team. Sano at DH gave him the chance to put either Escobar or Adrianza on the field, keeping them sharp. Sano at 1B let Mauer rest his weary 34 year-old bilateral legs once in a while. I don't see any reason why he won't start at 3B again next year under a similar scenario.

 

 

[Doubles]

 

There's a difference between "he's a big guy, but surprisingly athletic" and "he's a big guy, he should lose some weight or he's going to die of a coronary at age 31 and maybe kill every postseason chance the Twins have for the next decade".*
 
*paraphrased but pretty spot-on with intent

 

The above statement probably illustrates the point better than I ever could.  

 

Confusing the message with disdain for the messenger.

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

Sano is a big guy. Charging bunts, scooping them barehanded and rotating the body to make an accurate throw to first would be unexpected at 260 pounds with six-pack abs. He's pretty darn nimble.

 

Daunte Culpepper (6-4, 260), Byron Leftwich (6-5, 250), Ben Roethlisberger (6-5, 240), and Jared Lorenzen (6-4, 290, who still holds the record on completions and total yards at Kentucky) beg to disagree.  And all of them have to do in with fear of bodily harm (unlike Sano) and nobody can accuse Lorenzen of six-pack abs

[Tomj14]

 

Daunte Culpepper (6-4, 260), Byron Leftwich (6-5, 250), Ben Roethlisberger (6-5, 240), and Jared Lorenzen (6-4, 290, who still holds the record on completions and total yards at Kentucky) beg to disagree.  And all of them have to do in with fear of bodily harm (unlike Sano) and nobody can accuse Lorenzen of six-pack abs

Only one of them made it for more than a few years as a top QB (the lightest)

[dbminn]

 

Daunte Culpepper (6-4, 260), Byron Leftwich (6-5, 250), Ben Roethlisberger (6-5, 240), and Jared Lorenzen (6-4, 290, who still holds the record on completions and total yards at Kentucky) beg to disagree.  And all of them have to do in with fear of bodily harm (unlike Sano) and nobody can accuse Lorenzen of six-pack abs

 

I agree they were excellent athletes, although I bet none of them could field a bunt like Miguel!

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The above statement probably illustrates the point better than I ever could.  

 

Confusing the message with disdain for the messenger.

Actually, I had little to no issues with Souhan - I don't read local writers much so I had no reason to dislike him - until he wrote his first Sano-bashing article. So, my issues with Souhan primarily revolve around his articles about Sano.