Thank you Terry Ryan

[Pardon My Dinger]

And I would like to thank George W Bush, because...I mean, he genuinely seems like a nice guy...and it seems like that's, like, what we're doing here.

[gunnarthor]

 

This is kind of an interested statement, so here is the Twins active roster (signed by GM in parenthesis) :

 

Total: Ryan 15, Falvey 9, Smith 8, Antony 1.

 

 

 

Facts.

Well, I would hope that someone who was so interested in facts would know that Falvey isn't our GM. .

[jimmer]

 

Well, I would hope that someone who was so interested in facts would know that Falvey isn't our GM. .

You mean like how some around here would continuously compare Ryan's GM work to the Cubs' Theo Epstein even though Epstein isn't the Cubs' GM either? 

 

Those people would say it was about comparing the top dogs making the final call, and with the way many teams are set up right now, there's a President of Baseball Operations who is top dog and then a GM.  

 

Probably why people are talking about Falvey instead of Levine.  The same way people wouldn't stop talking about Theo (or was that King Theo? I forget).

[bird]

 

Interesting stuff. 

 

There are 10 missing on the pitching side, are they all Ryan?

 

 

None of them are "all Ryan" and none of them are "all Smith".

 

If we're so dead set on attributing credit, name the area scout responsible for the recommendation. Then give some of the credit to the person who hired and managed that scout. Also, the contract negotiations with the kid's representatives might have been conducted by Antony or Krivsky. Maybe a couple of those guys are "all Krivsky".

[bird]

 

How about a different perspective?

A good leader hires (or retains) and empowers people smarter than he is, clears paths for them to accomplish their objectives, and shares or gives credit. It seems unfair to downgrade Smith for upholding these qualities.

 

That's precisely my point. I'm not the one guilty of downgrading Smith. I wish others would stop completely ignoring his true accomplishments instead of falsely attributing to him the accomplishments of others.

 

Both Ryan and Smith would look at you like you were daft if you tried to ask them which guy should "get credit" for any one of the players on the roster. Why do we ignore the fact that both of them have consistently and accurately credited others in the organization for their roles in procuring talent? 

 

Give me a list of Smith's hires (or fires) among the five dozen people in scouting and development. It's a list of zero names, because he left that assignment in the hands of the baseball people, an act of good leadership on his part.

[bird]

 

You highly mention Ryan (no shocker) and Falvey and don't mention Smith at all.

 

Again, jimmer, I've cited facts about Smith's true accomplishments maybe more times than anyone else who regularly participates in these threads. His most important imprint is in building the physical infrastructure for the organization's international effort. I can't recall you or anyone else (besides me) lauding Smith for the state of the art joint facilities in the Dominican Republic. Smith's accomplishments there are now a huge part of the reason we're attracting enough talent there to have posted the second best record among 40 teams this season. 

 

I didn't credit Smith in the post you're replying to because we were talking about scouting personnel hired by Ryan and changes made by Falvey. 

 

And I'm one of the few people on this thread NOT highly mentioning Ryan or Smith or Falvey when it comes to the roster, because I view it as an exercise in ignorance, frankly speaking.

[gunnarthor]

 

You mean like how some around here would continuously compare Ryan's GM work to the Cubs' Theo Epstein even though Epstein isn't the Cubs' GM either? 

 

Those people would say it was about comparing the top dogs making the final call, and with the way many teams are set up right now, there's a President of Baseball Operations who is top dog and then a GM.  

 

Probably why people are talking about Falvey instead of Levine.  The same way people wouldn't stop talking about Theo (or was that King Theo? I forget).

Beats me, I always mentioned Hoyer but YMMV, as others say.

 

But, as Bird notes, this stupid threads always devolve into this sort of ****. Ryan, Smith, Lavine, Anthony and Falvey have all done some good things that we don't recognize and made mistakes, as well. I liked Ryan quite a bit because he kept the window open longer than other GMs for a small market team and our current down swing was, more or less, part of the natural cycle of baseball economics. We'll see how the new team does.

[Doomtints]

 

None of them are "all Ryan" and none of them are "all Smith".

 

If we're so dead set on attributing credit, name the area scout responsible for the recommendation. Then give some of the credit to the person who hired and managed that scout. Also, the contract negotiations with the kid's representatives might have been conducted by Antony or Krivsky. Maybe a couple of those guys are "all Krivsky".

 

This would be called "overthinking it."  All contracts go through the person in charge, if that person is not paying attention and is rubber stamping, that's a problem. Is this what you are suggesting happened?

[gunnarthor]

 

This would be called "overthinking it."  All contracts go through the person in charge, if that person is not paying attention and is rubber stamping, that's a problem. Is this what you are suggesting happened?

Honestly, isn't that why they hired a President of Baseball Ops and a GM? Because running the baseball side solely as GM was just too much? I mean, I don't think the GM should have to have a huge say in who they pick in the 4th round or who they give 250k signing bonus too. That should be delegated to others, no? Should the GM say "we need to find a reliever who will sign for 1-2m/yr who might be able to handle 40 innings of mop up duty" and have guys give him some suggestions/names to target? Or should the GM just find that guy by himself?

[Doomtints]

 

Honestly, isn't that why they hired a President of Baseball Ops and a GM? Because running the baseball side solely as GM was just too much? I mean, I don't think the GM should have to have a huge say in who they pick in the 4th round or who they give 250k signing bonus too. That should be delegated to others, no? Should the GM say "we need to find a reliever who will sign for 1-2m/yr who might be able to handle 40 innings of mop up duty" and have guys give him some suggestions/names to target? Or should the GM just find that guy by himself?

 

He should make use all available resources (which includes his employees) to make the best decision. His job depends on making the right choices more often than not.

[Craig Arko]

I have no problem thanking all of these people. But then, I remember the Mike Lynn era of Vikings management.

[bird]

 

This would be called "overthinking it."  All contracts go through the person in charge, if that person is not paying attention and is rubber stamping, that's a problem. Is this what you are suggesting happened?

 

 

You're "underthinking it." There's a process in place for all of this. It's a billion dollar enterprise in which the most important asset is baseball talent. Talking about who's in charge of contracts is a discussion of superficial and almost irrelevant stuff.

 

Howard Norsetter knew what it was going to take to win the bid for Thorpe's services. Other scouts weighed in. He made a recommendation. His GM trusted his judgment and trusted the process. They signed him.

[Doomtints]

 

You're "underthinking it." There's a process in place for all of this. It's a billion dollar enterprise in which the most important asset is baseball talent. Talking about who's in charge of contracts is a discussion of superficial and almost irrelevant stuff.

 

Howard Norsetter knew what it was going to take to win the bid for Thorpe's services. Other scouts weighed in. He made a recommendation. His GM trusted his judgment and trusted the process. They signed him.

 

There is a process for everything. The responsibility still falls on the people at the top, who define the processes.

[bird]

 

There is a process for everything. The responsibility still falls on the people at the top, who define the processes.

 

 

And since Smith had nothing to do with defining the scouting process, I find it to be an exercise in futility to talk about his role like people do. Especially when those same people want to discredit Ryan as a non-contributor. Ryan actually DID have a lot to do with the scouting process. Billy Smith, I'm sure, would be the first person to clarify this Ryan vs. Smith crap for people. I'm not going to trouble myself to find it, but he straightened out a writer on the subject, I believe Reusse, when interviewed back in about June, as I recall. 

 

Ryan never acted alone when it came to scouting work. Smith never acted at all when it came to scouting work. He has said so. He described himself as an administrator, never as a baseball man. 

 

I truly don't understand how this can be confusing. 

[Doomtints]

You say you "truly don't understand how this can be confusing" yet you seem to be talking about something else all of a sudden.  Yes, I have NO CLUE what you are on about.

 

Smith and Ryan were responsible for scouting whether they did it personally or not.  Just like the CEO of a pharmaceutical company is responsible for testing whether he ever sets foot in a lab or not.

[Squirrel]

 

You say you "truly don't understand how this can be confusing" yet you seem to be talking about something else all of a sudden.  Yes, I have NO CLUE what you are on about.

 

Smith and Ryan were responsible for scouting whether they did it personally or not.  Just like the CEO of a pharmaceutical company is responsible for testing whether he ever sets foot in a lab or not.

I could have this wrong, but what I think bird is saying is that the scouts and scouting that Ryan had in place before Smith remained in place during Smith, and that kudos to Smith on his international signings were due to the efforts of others as much as it was to Smith and probably more so. But I could have that wrong.

 

As for me and my opinions on Ryan and Smith ... whatever. Seriously. Whatever. These are individuals that are no longer with the organization so I don't really care. Yes, we are or aren't where we are partly due to the work that was done before, but it's work that is done and water under the bridge, both the good and the bad of it. Can't change it, so whatever. I'm more concerned with moving forward as there is work yet to be done.

[howieramone2]

I have posted this before, let me post it again. LaVelle wrote an article in the Strib in May about how all of our best players are TR's guys. He specifically mentioned Sano and Polanco, because TR was in charge of international scouting during the Bill Smith era. I know I'm not the only member on the board who reads the sports page.

[bird]

 

I could have this wrong, but what I think bird is saying is that the scouts and scouting that Ryan had in place before Smith remained in place during Smith, and that kudos to Smith on his international signings were due to the efforts of others as much as it was to Smith and probably more so. But I could have that wrong.

 

As for me and my opinions on Ryan and Smith ... whatever. Seriously. Whatever. These are individuals that are no longer with the organization so I don't really care. Yes, we are or aren't where we are partly due to the work that was done before, but it's work that is done and water under the bridge, both the good and the bad of it. Can't change it, so whatever. I'm more concerned with moving forward as there is work yet to be done.

 

 

Yeah, you have it right, ChiTown and you said it without getting all worked up about it. I'm going to try to quietly celebrate the good work of our IFA scouts, our amateur scouts, and our pro scouts. They've screwed up, like all scouts do, but I see a lot of good things coming from the draft, IFA, and trades.