Terrible bullpen

[DaveW]

Can this front office actually pretend to care about the bullpen and go out on the waiver wire and make a trade?

Unreal that this team can score 9 runs, but lose because the bullpen is the worst bullpen in baseball.

 

[drjim]

Has there even been a halfway decent reliever traded in August?

[Brandon Warne]

The bullpen has been fine in the second half. 

 

Coming into today:

 

3.77 ERA

8.4 K/9

2.2 BB/9

46.6% GB rate

[Brandon Warne]

 

Has there even been a halfway decent reliever traded in August?

 

They could claim Blake Wood, but big-time difference-maker types aren't moving. 

[Dantes929]

Half way decent relievers give up  runs too.   We want guys like Curtis to come up and contribute and they have to learn on the job.   Hopefully he learns from this and does better next time.

[DaveW]

 

The bullpen has been fine in the second half. 

 

Coming into today:

 

3.77 ERA

8.4 K/9

2.2 BB/9

46.6% GB rate

It's gotten a lot worse by that boneheaded trade of Kintzler and having to force Gee (who should have remained a RP) into the rotation.

[DaveW]

 

Half way decent relievers give up  runs too.   We want guys like Curtis to come up and contribute and they have to learn on the job.   Hopefully he learns from this and does better next time.

This wasn't the time to use him. Good lord Molly, talk about killing all momentum.
 

[Brandon Warne]

 

It's gotten a lot worse by that boneheaded trade of Kintzler and having to force Gee (who should have remained a RP) into the rotation.

 

He's been good in Washington, but I'm not sure how you can call it boneheaded. The bullpen has been fine without him. They're seventh in bullpen ERA in August. Keeping Kintzler might bounce someone who has been good this month.  

[Brandon Warne]

 

This wasn't the time to use him. Good lord Molly, talk about killing all momentum.

 

It seems to me that you have all the answers but none of the questions. Just my two cents. 

[DaveW]

 

He's been good in Washington, but I'm not sure how you can call it boneheaded. The bullpen has been fine without him. They're seventh in bullpen ERA in August. Keeping Kintzler might bounce someone who has been good this month.  

7th in a SSS, who cares? They are 25th on the year, which is pathetic considering they have such an amazing defense behind them. 

The bullpen is awful.  

How again is trading your BEST bullpen arm in the middle of a playoff race NOT bone-headed?

[Otto von Ballpark]

The bullpen has been fine in the second half.

 

Coming into today:

 

3.77 ERA

8.4 K/9

2.2 BB/9

46.6% GB rate

League average for second half bullpens is a 3.84 ERA, so there is room for improvement.

 

In second half bullpen ERA, our Twins trail the Yankees, Rays, Orioles, Mariners, Indians, Angels, Red Sox, and even the Rangers.

[DaveW]

 

League average for second half bullpens is a 3.84 ERA, so there is room for improvement.

In second half bullpen ERA, our Twins trail the Yankees, Rays, Orioles, Mariners, Indians, Angels, Red Sox, and even the Rangers.

Yup, and we by FAR have the best defense of those teams.

[Brandon Warne]

 

7th in a SSS, who cares? They are 25th on the year, which is pathetic considering they have such an amazing defense behind them. 

The bullpen is awful.  

How again is trading your BEST bullpen arm in the middle of a playoff race NOT bone-headed?

 

Because their playoff chances were like 7 percent then. Now they're 20 percent. You tell me how much trading Kintzler hurt, then.

[Brandon Warne]

 

League average for second half bullpens is a 3.84 ERA, so there is room for improvement.

In second half bullpen ERA, our Twins trail the Yankees, Rays, Orioles, Mariners, Indians, Angels, Red Sox, and even the Rangers.

 

Sure. It's just not actively hurting a team that has been great this month. Complaining about it on a day it blew up when it's been good for a while sort of ignores that it's a long grind and sometimes these things happen. 

[jorgenswest]

Indians just added a bullpen piece today.

[DaveW]

 

Because their playoff chances were like 7 percent then. Now they're 20 percent. You tell me how much trading Kintzler hurt, then.

It has cost them at least 2 games since the trade, most likely 3 games.

with those two wins they would be around 40%, 3 wins? they would be 55%
 

[DaveW]

 

Sure. It's just not actively hurting a team that has been great this month. Complaining about it on a day it blew up when it's been good for a while sort of ignores that it's a long grind and sometimes these things happen. 

It's a long grind and the Twins have the 25th best ERA in bullpens in all of baseball. Just because they had a lucky few weeks doesn't mean that the bullpen was anything other than "lucky" instead of terrible during that time.

[Brandon Warne]

 

It has cost them at least 2 games since the trade, most likely 3 games.

with those two wins they would be around 40%, 3 wins? they would be 55%
 

 

That's all good and well if you ignore that it has also saved them games in the meantime. Is the net difference without Kintzler 2-3 games over the last month? I doubt that.

[drjim]

They could claim Blake Wood, but big-time difference-maker types aren't moving.

Kind of the issue with this post, right? They shouldn't have traded Kintzler, they probably should have added. But it didn't happen.

 

But complaining the front office hasn't done something that isn't really an option doesn't strike me as particularly productive.

[DaveW]

Blake wood would be better than most of the guys in this pen, they don't need world beaters, they need guys who won't put up 9+ ERAs

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

That's all good and well if you ignore that it has also saved them games in the meantime. Is the net difference without Kintzler 2-3 games over the last month? I doubt that.

In terms of WAR, no he won't be worth 2.0 or 3.0 WAR in the final five weeks. As for just having a reliable bullpen guy, he could be worth 2 or 3 games, easily.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

It's really hard to measure these things.

[yarnivek1972]

The bullpen as it is currently composed is about as poor as it has been all season.  Belisle is the default closer and he has earned it, but he's far from a "shut down" closer.  Rogers seems to be wearing down some.  He came out of the Break horribly.  He seems better since the Twins cut his workload.  But problematically, the Twins have no other reliable LH reliever.  Believe it or not, I think the Twins will be very happy when Buddy Boshers is back.  He's holding LHB to a .583 OPS, which is in line with his career mark (Rogers is .639 in 2017, but is about the same as Boshers career wise). 

 

Duffey, I don't even know what to think.  This is the 4th time he has given up 3 or more runs in an appearance this season.  It is the 8th in which he has given up more than 1.  That's almost 20% of his appearances giving up at LEAST 2 runs.  By contrast, the oft maligned Belisle has given up more than 1 run in just 5 of 50 outings.  Only once since July started.  Have to go back to mid June to find the second to latest time Belisle's given up more than 1 "earned" run in an outing.  I'm starting to think Duffey simply isn't a MLB pitcher.  Given all the shuttling that has gone on this season, it's surprising he hasn't been one of the guys shuttled.

 

Hildenberger is an odd case.  He has "reverse" splits in that he has been far more effective vs LHB.  Usually side armers would have "normal" same side splits.  Obviously, extremely SSS, so we'll have to see how that continues to play.  

 

Curtiss throws hard, but is too green to be expected to fill a key role.  Same really with Busenitz.  Although he seems up to the task.  His K rate has picked up as he has gained experience.  He had just 4 K in his first 10 IP.  10 K in the 12 IP since, which is more in line with what "we" expected.  At some point, as with all pitchers, hitters will adjust to what he is trying to do to them and then he will have to show he can adjust to what hitters do differently against him.  Perkins' stuff just doesn't fool hitters anymore.  Pressly, much like Duffey, has great stretches and then stretches where he is just brutal.  Nearly all the damage done against him was in a two week stretch in April and 5 days at the end of May.  Of course, he probably more than others (anecdotally), gets bailed out by others in the pen, saving him runs.

 

So, there's basically 3 that the Twins have reasonable confidence in (Belisle, Rogers and Hildenberger) and one more that is trending well (Busenitz).  2 of them made their MLB debuts within the last 10 weeks. Another made his last year.  Concerning, to say the least.

 

At some point, the Twins need to seriously consider giving Michael Tonkin another shot.  One can't hardly pitch much better than he has in AAA this year.  He's been particularly effective against RHB and with runners on.  41 K in 111 PA with runners on this season (between AAA and MLB).  That's impressive IMO.  Plus, he's far more experienced than Busenitz, Hildenberger, et al.

 

If, and that's still a big if, the rotation holds together for the next 5 weeks, it is going to be extremely difficult for the Twins to hold leads with 3 or 4 reliable relievers without wearing them out.

 

 

IMO, this is not the bullpen of a contending team.

 

[jorgenswest]

The Twins are contending so it is a bullpen of a contending team. Rosters expand in September. Expect a big bullpen and lots of pitching changes according to match ups next month. Maybe matching up by batter can make up for not acquiring Blake Wood.

[Brandon Warne]

 

Blake wood would be better than most of the guys in this pen, they don't need world beaters, they need guys who won't put up 9+ ERAs

 

Who are you referring to? Pressly's ERA is now under 5.00. Duffey had a tough day but has been very good all season. Curtiss is a kid.

[yarnivek1972]

 

Who are you referring to? Pressly's ERA is now under 5.00. Duffey had a tough day but has been very good all season. Curtiss is a kid.

 

 

Pressly has allowed 9 of 29 inherited runners to score.  By way of comparison, Taylor Rogers has allowed 4 of 26 inherited runners to score.

 

Regarding Duffey, no, he has not been "very good all season".   8 times he's allowed more than one run in an outing, almost 20% of his appearances.  IMO, that is very poor.

[Deduno Abides]

Indians just added a bullpen piece today.

Too bad the Twins FO wasn't smart enough to get that guy before Cleveland did.

[DaveW]

Who are you referring to? Pressly's ERA is now under 5.00. Duffey had a tough day but has been very good all season. Curtiss is a kid.

Sorry high 4's and low 5s for guys out of a bullpen is awful, especially when they don't get dinged for interited runs scored, which pressly has been getting killed on

[yarnivek1972]

The Twins are contending so it is a bullpen of a contending team. Rosters expand in September. Expect a big bullpen and lots of pitching changes according to match ups next month. Maybe matching up by batter can make up for not acquiring Blake Wood.

Rick Aguilera isn't one of the expected call ups. The only guys in AAA that MIGHT be able to help are Boshers and Tonkin, if spotted against same handed hitters. Jury is still out on Turley. But he's a guy with 5 MLB appearances. 3 of them were terrible. Another was mediocre, and that's being kind. He's had one appearance when he didn't give up a run. A game he entered with a 7 run lead.

[DocBauer]

I know it may be as much semantics as perception, but I don't feel the bullpen is "terrible" or has been "terrible" this season at all. I think there have been stretches of "terrible" that make this bullpen "inconsistent" in the grand scheme.

 

I feel this exact selection could apply to the rotation as well.

 

Look, this team is in contention, has been in contention all season, has been. 500, usually above, only below for a few days here and there, for the entire season. We all know the pitching, rotation and bullpen, aren't where they need to be. But you don't contend and play above. 500 ball with a staff that is "terrible".

 

Remember how we all pretty much wanted Belisle run out of town at one point? Suddenly we look up to realize he was pitching borderline lights out for weeks on end. But the perception was he stunk. Rogers, maybe overworked, didn't look good after the break, but has been better again lately. Pressly has the big arm, big SO totals, and streaks of pitching well. He's also been pretty bad in stretches. Could almost say the exact same about Duffey.

 

And now we have a couple good looking kids getting their feet wet and a 3rd who is now getting that chance.

 

"Terrible"? I say no. Inconsistent? That I agree to!