That's fair. I guess I just look at pitching a little differently. Very much in agreement that we wouldn't have Colon if our pitchers hadn't stunk and he also wasn't good prior to his move to the Twins. I guess time will tell. He was ready to quit when he had doubts about his effectiveness. I like him as a 5th starter.

The Twins need someone like Mejia to be their 5th starter next year. They need to go out and sign at least one decent starter this off season. Guys like Colon, Gibson, etc... hopefully aren't part of the equation next year, at least not before an injury or two.

Would love to have him back next year. The perfect fifth starter. Young pitchers on this team can watch and learn. Where would they be without him? He saved their season.

We're joking about Colon, right? No one actually wants him holding down a rotation spot in 2018, do they? This is a joke thread, surely...

 

Colon has helped this team quite a bit. That's great. But the 2018 Twins need to add someone at least as good as Ervin Santana, if not better.

Colon has helped this team quite a bit. That's great. But the 2018 Twins need to add someone at least as good as Ervin Santana, if not better.

No disagreement about finding top-shelf pitching.

 

But Colon's surely finally reached the stage of his career where no one else will offer a multi-year deal. In which case, there's no such thing as a bad one-year contract, right? If he agreed to $7m, just to throw a number out there, and he holds down a rotation spot until such time as 5 guys are better, I don't see the harm. At which point try to trade him, or just flush the remainder of the contract if need be.

 

Of course, not if that $7m stands in the way of getting someone better. But I'm in the camp that they should be spending a ton more on older talent during this phase of the rebuild, given all the young cheap talent they currently have. To run a franchise properly, you have to take enough risks that once in a while you flush $7m.

We're joking about Colon, right? No one actually wants him holding down a rotation spot in 2018, do they? This is a joke thread, surely...

 

Colon has helped this team quite a bit. That's great. But the 2018 Twins need to add someone at least as good as Ervin Santana, if not better.

I think it depends on what you want from your 5th starter. I've seen multiple posts that Colon is the "perfect 5th starter". Maybe it's trolling, but seems pretty honest.

 

 

I'm in the camp that the 5th starter should provide youth and upside, but lack polish. It should be the spot in the rotation that creates depth for the future. That is clearly not the only sentiment on the board.

 

IMO Mejia is the perfect 5th starter. In the near future Gonsalves or Enn or Romero could be perfect 5th starters.

 

I agree with you Brock, the FO needs to bring in front of the rotation help. Colon is a guy that you sign to the bigs mid season due to injury or sign on a minor league deal. Great guy to have on a minor league deal, but definitely not someone you WANT to rely on out of the shoot.

If the FO can't find five starters between now and next spring that don't eliminate Colon as a viable option, I'd consider that to be a major failing on the FO's part.

 

We're joking about Colon, right? No one actually wants him holding down a rotation spot in 2018, do they? This is a joke thread, surely...

 

Colon has helped this team quite a bit. That's great. But the 2018 Twins need to add someone at least as good as Ervin Santana, if not better.

 

This is the Twins.  We know if he plays well for them this year and wants to play next year, he will play here.

 

 

 

No disagreement about finding top-shelf pitching.

 

But Colon's surely finally reached the stage of his career where no one else will offer a multi-year deal. In which case, there's no such thing as a bad one-year contract, right? If he agreed to $7m, just to throw a number out there, and he holds down a rotation spot until such time as 5 guys are better, I don't see the harm. At which point try to trade him, or just flush the remainder of the contract if need be.

 

Of course, not if that $7m stands in the way of getting someone better. But I'm in the camp that they should be spending a ton more on older talent during this phase of the rebuild, given all the young cheap talent they currently have. To run a franchise properly, you have to take enough risks that once in a while you flush $7m.

The Twins have a lot of depth at the back of the rotation. I think they should use 2018 to figure out which portion of that depth will stick. On top of Santana, Berrios, Mejia, and Free Agent Pitcher X they have the following:

 

May

Hughes

Gonsalves

Romero

Enns

Littel

 

That's enough to get through a season, IMO.

 

And that's not including Gibson, should they retain him. I wouldn't but there's still five weeks left in the season. He could show something.

Hughes. Ugh.

 

This is the Twins.  We know if he plays well for them this year and wants to play next year, he will play here.

Maybe that was true under the old front office but we have no indication the new front office will follow suit.

 

This is the Twins.  We know if he plays well for them this year and wants to play next year, he will play here.

 

That might have been the Terry Ryan Twins.

 

Then again, he's had a 110 ERA+ with the Twins, and I don't think that's anything to sneeze at. 

 

Maybe that was true under the old front office but we have no indication the new front office will follow suit.

 

I dunno, the fact that he is here at all says to me not much has changed. Sure, it's working out so far, but it's not a move most teams would have made.

 

I dunno, the fact that he is here at all says to me not much has changed. Sure, it's working out so far, but it's not a move most teams would have made.

I think plenty of teams would have made that move if their rotation (and pitching in general) was in as dire shape as the Twins was at the time.

 

And Colon isn't the only guy they picked up, he's just the one who stuck.

 

That might have been the Terry Ryan Twins.

 

Then again, he's had a 110 ERA+ with the Twins, and I don't think that's anything to sneeze at. 

 

*Might* have been, yeah. We'll see what happens during the offseason, of course.

 

I think plenty of teams would have made that move if their rotation (and pitching in general) was in as dire shape as the Twins was at the time.

 

And Colon isn't the only guy they picked up, he's just the one who stuck.

 

Gee didn't stick? What was Gee's ERA at AAA when Colon was called up?  0.00 in 3+ starts?

 

Gee didn't stick? What was Gee's ERA at AAA when Colon was called up?  0.00 in 3+ starts?

Gee had 22.2 innings pitched with the Twins in August, including a start just four days ago.

 

And I was speaking of Melville, I simply forgot he spent so long in the minors because he's Melville and entirely forgettable.

 

Gee had 22.2 innings pitched with the Twins in August, including a start just four days ago.

 

And I was speaking of Melville, I simply forgot he spent so long in the minors because he's Melville and entirely forgettable.

 

Yeah, not sure what the Melville thing was about. Gee insurance, I guess. This brings us back to the beginning: There was no insurance for Colon, but there was a backup plan for Gee?

Edited August 29, 20179 yr by Doomtints

 

No disagreement about finding top-shelf pitching.

 

But Colon's surely finally reached the stage of his career where no one else will offer a multi-year deal. In which case, there's no such thing as a bad one-year contract, right? If he agreed to $7m, just to throw a number out there, and he holds down a rotation spot until such time as 5 guys are better, I don't see the harm. At which point try to trade him, or just flush the remainder of the contract if need be.

 

Of course, not if that $7m stands in the way of getting someone better. But I'm in the camp that they should be spending a ton more on older talent during this phase of the rebuild, given all the young cheap talent they currently have. To run a franchise properly, you have to take enough risks that once in a while you flush $7m.

It isn't about the 7M tbh although that is sort of significant money. Colon has put up terrible stats this year and the Twins should definitely enter the year with 5 better options than Colon (if you believe the advanced stats). He is a fallback (plan B/C) type of option at best.

 

the Twins are actually in a good position to take a little more risk (and upside) at the 5th starter since they could have Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge, Enns and Littel at AAA. Those are 5 legitimate prospects (stretching it a bit with Enns but he is still a solid arm).

 

The Twins have a lot of depth at the back of the rotation. I think they should use 2018 to figure out which portion of that depth will stick. On top of Santana, Berrios, Mejia, and Free Agent Pitcher X they have the following:

 

May

Hughes

Gonsalves

Romero

Enns

Littel

 

That's enough to get through a season, IMO.

 

And that's not including Gibson, should they retain him. I wouldn't but there's still five weeks left in the season. He could show something.

"Could show something" is for last place teams. Let the starters with minor-league options kick the door open with great AAA performance. Show the others the door or keep them in the bullpen, if they don't look like an innings-eating option to fill out the rotation.

This is the Twins. We know if he plays well for them this year and wants to play next year, he will play here.

we haven't really been through a "full" off season with this FO. I don't believe we can be certain. Under the TR/WS regime I would agree with this. Now, not sure

Of course, not if that $7m stands in the way of getting someone better. But I'm in the camp that they should be spending a ton more on older talent during this phase of the rebuild, given all the young cheap talent they currently have. To run a franchise properly, you have to take enough risks that once in a while you flush $7m.

agreed, they do need to spend heavily on Pitching. I'd rather that 7 mil get spent on a DH that you might end up flushing.

 

You gotta find two starters, rather they be front and middle, rather than more of the same scrap heap

 

"Could show something" is for last place teams. Let the starters with minor-league options kick the door open with great AAA performance. Show the others the door or keep them in the bullpen, if they don't look like an innings-eating option to fill out the rotation.

Oh, I entirely agree, which is why I said I wouldn't retain Gibson.

 

But there are five weeks left in the season. Maybe he has something to show us. Unlikely, but possible.

Twins have plenty of #5 starters. Always hearing about how this pitcher and that pitcher are fine for #5 pitchers. We cant use that reasoning for multiple guys who are actively pitching in the rotation. :-)

The purpose of the MLB team called the Twins, who we all love and support, is to WIN. Yes?

 

We ALL spend so much time talking winning, roster construction, prospects on the rise, etc, that I think we lose sight of winning. This team has a roster of players growing, learning and developing that it's almost scary how good they could be. But pitching is still the key. I am equally excited for the 2017 team as it stands right now as well as the future of the franchise in 2018 and beyond. I can't wait to see Gonsalves and Romero and others. But don't we also want thjs team to win NOW as well as next season?

 

The Twins should easily allow themselves additional payroll in 2018 for a SP, maybe a bat and RP. But there is also room for Colon. Maybe a 1yr deal for around $10M with incentives. Why on earth would you not want him back? Because he's not 24 and a long term solution?

 

I thought his signing was smart. Then I thought he would be done unless he was willing to be a RP. Then he built his arm strength and endurance up and was suddenly the same guy who has been pretty damn good the 4 previous seasons for the Mets.

 

So 2018 could feature FA, Berrios, Santana, Colon, a healthy Mejia and tons of competition and depth with trade possibilities. This bad how?

 

The wheels could come off the Big Sexy wagon at any time. But they haven't yet. He absolutely loves playing, has had a positive affect on the team, has fun, and it would seem he has a positive affect overall. Why wouldn't you invest a 1yr contract at this point?

At the moment it looks like the Twins have a good to decent chance of making the playoffs this year...Can't believe I'm actually typing that.  I hope the Twins keep Colon through the end of the year.  A veteran like that could help the pitching staff during a playoff run...Can't believe I'm typing that either.

Release. Can we agree on release, now?

I've got an extension to offer.

 

It involves extending the intermediate and distal phalanges from the third metacarpal.

 

I've got an extension to offer.

It involves extending the intermediate and distal phalanges from the third metacarpal.

 

is that a toe?

 

Edited September 20, 20179 yr by Mike Sixel

I think he's done. Maybe he can do something one inning at a time out of the pen but give his last two starts to Slegers or Gee or someone else.