Article: State Of The Twins: Reacting Too Quickly (Stream of Consciousness)

[PDX Twin]

My tuppence worth:

 

I'd look for offers on Grossman. He has strengths that can add something useful to a good lineup in the American League. He helps the Twins, but we have a better 4th OF in Granite and should be able to replace his bat.

 

Polanco has never recovered from the death in his family earlier this year. It's been a downward spiral ever since, with poor performances draining his confidence, leading to more poor performances, both at the plate and in the field. Don't give up on him yet. Give him a chance to clear his head and come back in the spring with confidence renewed and see how he can grow. Think about what kind of nurturing (from teammates, coaches, or even outside counselors) would help him, and follow through with it.

 

Rogers is part of my bullpen for the next few years. Necessity has pushed him into a more prominent role this year than any of us expected, and he did extremely well until the last couple of weeks. Likely overused. If even some of the AAA/AA/DL bullpen studs for whom we have high hopes work out, he can be a more-than-useful piece as LOOGY or LH setup man.

 

Santana, Kintzler, and Dozier are useful pieces for next year, but I'd make them "available" if the right offer comes along. It would have to be pitching and would have to have high probability of making the team better by 2019.

[Mike Sixel]

 

My tuppence worth:

 

I'd look for offers on Grossman. He has strengths that can add something useful to a good lineup in the American League. He helps the Twins, but we have a better 4th OF in Granite and should be able to replace his bat.

 

Polanco has never recovered from the death in his family earlier this year. It's been a downward spiral ever since, with poor performances draining his confidence, leading to more poor performances, both at the plate and in the field. Don't give up on him yet. Give him a chance to clear his head and come back in the spring with confidence renewed and see how he can grow. Think about what kind of nurturing (from teammates, coaches, or even outside counselors) would help him, and follow through with it.

 

Rogers is part of my bullpen for the next few years. Necessity has pushed him into a more prominent role this year than any of us expected, and he did extremely well until the last couple of weeks. Likely overused. If even some of the AAA/AA/DL bullpen studs for whom we have high hopes work out, he can be a more-than-useful piece as LOOGY or LH setup man.

 

Santana, Kintzler, and Dozier are useful pieces for next year, but I'd make them "available" if the right offer comes along. It would have to be pitching and would have to have high probability of making the team better by 2019.

 

I'd happily trade one of those guys for a legit young DH type, or even a catcher that can hit some, since they don't seem to think Garver is that guy (or they are saving his body, which I doubt). I might even deal one for a 3B/1B/DH type, as insurance for Sano having to move to 1B.

[USNMCPO]

I go back to the old axiom: Everything is for sale, it just depends on the price. Don't give anything away, but listen to every GM that calls. Bring up the kids to get the experience they need. Lose contracts like Santiago. Reset the roster to reflect a winning strategy.

[Mike Sixel]

I hope this isn't like what TR always said, that he waited for calls. 

 

I hope they are actively working to make the team better next year and in years to come.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

FWIW, we are now as close to the second to last record in the AL (Oakland) as we are to first place in our division (5.5 games).

If the Twins play their cards right, they can wind up with another top five pick in the draft next June

[Mike Sixel]

 

If the Twins play their cards right, they can wind up with another top five pick in the draft next June

 

that would be very disappointing, frankly.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

that would be very disappointing, frankly.

Yes it would. I am in a snarky mood this morning.

[bighat]

 

FWIW, we are now as close to the second to last record in the AL (Oakland) as we are to first place in our division (5.5 games).

 

That is worth something and quite scary! Yeeps!

[Kwak]

The OP dealt with buying or selling players--but I believe there is an overriding issue which has substantially affected the Active Roster--Molitor.  Are the Twins buying (extending him) or selling (kicking him upstairs to the FO)?  The team has played 100 games, with limited injuries and with mostly veteran players.  Is more time needed to evaluate Molitor for manager?  I think there is enough information to decide--and that decision should dictate whether the team is buying or selling.  To delay that decision simply hamstrings the FO into a "wait and see" mode.  But, July is almost over.  True, deals can be made in August.  Waiting only reduces the return from "selling" or "buying" (additional wins due to a trade).

[Platoon]

The OP dealt with buying or selling players--but I believe there is an overriding issue which has substantially affected the Active Roster--Molitor.  Are the Twins buying (extending him) or selling (kicking him upstairs to the FO)?  The team has played 100 games, with limited injuries and with mostly veteran players.  Is more time needed to evaluate Molitor for manager?  I think there is enough information to decide--and that decision should dictate whether the team is buying or selling.  To delay that decision simply hamstrings the FO into a "wait and see" mode.  But, July is almost over.  True, deals can be made in August.  Waiting only reduces the return from "selling" or "buying" (additional wins due to a trade).

An independent blogger used the word "panic" the other day for the way Molitor used his pen. In a manner I agree, but refer to it more as managing for his job. I agree, they need to clarify his position. I only hope Pohlad kicks him upstairs, I think he will do less damage there. While I sympathize with his having to deal with this pitching staff, I simply do not see a MLB manager when I watch him operate. While Pohlad tried to do well for his friend, he did a disservice to the team leaving a lame duck in place during an important developmental phase.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If the Twins play their cards right, they can wind up with another top five pick in the draft next June

Yup, that is Oakland right now (tied for 5th worst record in MLB).

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

An independent blogger used the word "panic" the other day for the way Molitor used his pen. In a manner I agree, but refer to it more as managing for his job. I agree, they need to clarify his position. I only hope Pohlad kicks him upstairs, I think he will do less damage there. While I sympathize with his having to deal with this pitching staff, I simply do not see a MLB manager when I watch him operate. While Pohlad tried to do well for his friend, he did a disservice to the team leaving a lame duck in place during an important developmental phase.

I agree. I don't think Molitor is the right guy to manage but I would like the Twins to keep him around.

[gunnarthor]

I assume Molitor is done after the year. The new FO should be able to hire the guy they want to manage their team and not take a manager based on directives from ownership.

[Craig Arko]

I sometimes wonder that accepting contraction wouldn't have ultimately proved the more humane solution.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I sometimes wonder that accepting contraction wouldn't have ultimately proved the more humane solution.

 

I often wonder how much happier some people would be if they gave up sports entirely. I know I'm happier now that I watch way less sports, and do things I like to do instead. I am pretty much down to the Twins and Vikings, though the both are fading. And I know you weren't serious...

[Craig Arko]

 

I often wonder how much happier some people would be if they gave up sports entirely. I know I'm happier now that I watch way less sports, and do things I like to do instead. I am pretty much down to the Twins and Vikings, though the both are fading. And I know you weren't serious...

More serious than you might think. Sports fandom becomes something akin to addiction for some.

 

Also, without the Vikings my city would be spared the abomination of the Super Bowl, and could focus energy and funds more on things like better training for its Police Force.

[gunnarthor]

I really only care about baseball anymore. A lot of the stuff about pro sports bugs me - tax funded stadiums, players as role models, labor/management issues, racial issues. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

I often wonder how much happier some people would be if they gave up sports entirely. I know I'm happier now that I watch way less sports, and do things I like to do instead. I am pretty much down to the Twins and Vikings, though the both are fading. And I know you weren't serious...

I've actually grown to appreciate the losing as well as the winning. A community like TD has been pretty great in that regard, it's fun to post here - win or lose (or draw).

[Mike Sixel]

 

I've actually grown to appreciate the losing as well as the winning. A community like TD has been pretty great in that regard, it's fun to post here - win or lose (or draw).

 

TD is about all the keeps me interested in the Twins at this point, really. Much to some peoples' disappointment, I'm sure.

[Vanimal46]

 

More serious than you might think. Sports fandom becomes something akin to addiction for some.

 

Also, without the Vikings my city would be spared the abomination of the Super Bowl, and could focus energy and funds more on things like better training for its Police Force.

 

Everyone has their vices... Whether it's sports, politics, singing competitions, etc. there needs to be balance and perspective. I'm a believer that entertainment shouldn't affect your mood and how we treat people in daily life. And we all need to remember sports is entertainment. 

[Blake]

 

I often wonder how much happier some people would be if they gave up sports entirely. I know I'm happier now that I watch way less sports, and do things I like to do instead. I am pretty much down to the Twins and Vikings, though the both are fading. And I know you weren't serious...

There are only two seasons for me: Baseball and Not Baseball.

[jimmer]

There are only two seasons for me: Baseball and Not Baseball.

like two seasons, winter and construction ;-)

[Han Joelo]

Ditto on only following baseball. But, the local newspaper doesn't even print box scores anymore, while they did print a blurb about the Chargers third string quarterback. Maybe that's why I don't read the paper.

 

Anyway, this is the point in the story where Obi-Wan, Gandalf, and Dumbledore die (vets get traded) and our young heroes take their lumps, on their way to eventual (not this episode) victory.

[Craig Arko]

 

Ditto on only following baseball. But, the local newspaper doesn't even print box scores anymore, while they did print a blurb about the Chargers third string quarterback. Maybe that's why I don't read the paper.

Anyway, this is the point in the story where Obi-Wan, Gandalf, and Dumbledore die (vets get traded) and our young heroes take their lumps, on their way to eventual (not this episode) victory.

Yeah, the kids are certainly the main reason for caring at all, now.

[Han Joelo]

Berries after Santana gets traded:

 

https://media0.giphy.com/media/6bXwBcxB0KPcs/giphy.gif

[70charger]

I'm pretty much just down to baseball too, though I watch my college team's football games. I don't fanatically follow though.

 

That was a conscious decision. As much as I might find it easier to talk to my wife's friends' husbands if I know all about the Vikings, and basketball (gross), and whatever else they spend their days on, I'm just not into it, and my time is valuable.

 

I just can't seem to quit the Twins though. Then again, how could I make myself feel superior for my loyalty to a bad team through thick and thin if I gave up on them now?

[Mr. Brooks]

Seth, for your final point you say the Twins should trust their system.

And, personally I'd love to see some of these guys up, I comment all the time they should bring them up.

But, we all have to remember that this is not the new FO's system. They aren't going to blindly trust someone else's work.

[jimbo92107]

Does the "trade deadline" actually mean anything? Don't teams just waive players any time they want, then yank them back if nobody wants to make a deal?

 

Anyway, I don't see shopping Erv, Doz, Gimenez, Adrianza, etc, to be giving up on this season. Tell that to the hyper-excited young men making their major league debuts. They will be busting their backs trying to be superstars. At the same time, we've all seen the best team in the league, and it is the Los Angeles Dodgers. This young, incomplete Twins club is not yet competitive on that level. There is no shame in acknowledging this fact, and it's not surrender to plan for the future. 

[Mr. Brooks]

Does the "trade deadline" actually mean anything? Don't teams just waive players any time they want, then yank them back if nobody wants to make a deal?

 

Anyway, I don't see shopping Erv, Doz, Gimenez, Adrianza, etc, to be giving up on this season. Tell that to the hyper-excited young men making their major league debuts. They will be busting their backs trying to be superstars. At the same time, we've all seen the best team in the league, and it is the Los Angeles Dodgers. This young, incomplete Twins club is not yet competitive on that level. There is no shame in acknowledging this fact, and it's not surrender to plan for the future.

Well, Santana, Dozier, and Kintzler aren't clearing waivers, so yeah the deadline matters a lot if you want to trade them.

 

A guy like Belisle might clear, but of course you aren't going to get much back for a guy like that either.

[Rosterman]

Yes, the Twins DON'T have to trade Ervin or Dozier. They could, if blown away with an offer, but they will still have more opportunities to address their placement in the organization come off-season and even into 2018.

 

Kintzler is interesting. Again, you have to get something in return, yet he is in the midst of a walk season and MOST team would see him as a fine setup man. But if you do trade him, you will have a better chance to resign him, if you wish, in the off-season.

 

The Twins will put players on waivers come August, see if they can spin a deal, or make the decision to just save salary and open up a roster spot for some deserving name not on the roster.

 

The dilemma is that we'd like to see Romero or Gonsalves, but both are hitting inning limits.

 

But if you suddenly see 3-4-5 roster spots opening for players you will be protecting (or maybe just want a looksee) and September is around the corner, well, minor leagues playoffs be damned.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens when other teams pull further ahead. The Twins have been doing very well this year with basically no marketing plan, no stars that they encourage people to come and see (I remember filming a Byung-Ho Park commercial last summer that was never aired) and the possible end of the season for fan interest which can happen come the State Fair and Back-To School and last-month-at-the-lake and the Vikings Machine rolls into town and Super Bowl becomes the talk of the town.

 

Hummmm...maybe see the Twins making more trades for that guy CASH and his brothers, dollars and cents.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Rosterman