Article: 5 Reasons You Should Love The Jaime Garcia Trade

[TKGuy]

Low risk move to improve a surprising club. Love to add a reliever to help give Rogers a rest

[mikelink45]

If Garcia does well I can see the extension talks starting in August.

 

This FO is not adverse to DFA and demotions so I see Santiago out of here if Garcia and Colon hold the spots, Mejia has won his place and I do not see them messing with him this year.  Colon is the wild card, the place holder for Gibson or Santiago.  I wish I could say for Gonsalves or Romero.

[olivia11]

I wonder if the Twins could get a prospect in the range of Ynoa for Santiago if they agreed to pay the rest of his contact.  If the Twins were able to send a "lesser" prospect to the Braves for eating the rest of García's salary, then you'd have to think it could work to their benefit the other way around, too.   Probably not a true lottery ticket like Ynoa (low floor, high ceiling, high risk, etc.) but maybe a higher floor, lower ceiling guy like the Twins equivalent of an Aaron Slegers.  Maybe even the Angels (who are just 1 game back of the Twins in the WC race)  would be interested in getting him back.  

 

LHP Hector Santiago to LAA for RHP Jake Jewell  - Twins paying some portion of the rest of Santiago's salary.  MLB has Jewell as the #24 ranked prospect in Angels system (a bad system). The scouting report suggests he needs a fresh start after being knocked around in 2016.  He a 24 year old starting pitcher at AA with good numbers at A+ and poor ones (so far) at AA.  So, his stock has recently dropped, but if he bounces back he's interesting.  Who says no? 

 

Maybe this is the right kind of move for the Twins to make with Santiago.  They have to pay him anyway.  There's no spot for him on the roster.  He's a free agent after this season.  Might as well try and get something back? 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I wonder if the Twins could get a prospect in the range of Ynoa for Santiago if they agreed to pay the rest of his contact.  If the Twins were able to send a "lesser" prospect to the Braves for eating the rest of García's salary, then you'd have to think it could work to their benefit the other way around, too.   Probably not a true lottery ticket like Ynoa (low floor, high ceiling, high risk, etc.) but maybe a higher floor, lower ceiling guy like the Twins equivalent of an Aaron Slegers.  Maybe even the Angels (who are just 1 game back of the Twins in the WC race)  would be interested in getting him back.  

 

LHP Hector Santiago to LAA for RHP Jake Jewell  - Twins paying some portion of the rest of Santiago's salary.  MLB has Jewell as the #24 ranked prospect in Angels system (a bad system). The scouting report suggests he needs a fresh start after being knocked around in 2016.  He a 24 year old starting pitcher at AA with good numbers at A+ and poor ones (so far) at AA.  So, his stock has recently dropped, but if he bounces back he's interesting.  Who says no? 

 

Maybe this is the right kind of move for the Twins to make with Santiago.  They have to pay him anyway.  There's no spot for him on the roster.  He's a free agent after this season.  Might as well try and get something back? 

I'd prefer to see if Santiago can get healthy and bump Colon out of the rotation.

 

If healthy, a rotation of Santana, Berrios, Mejia, Garcia, and Santiago should be quite competent. If one of the latter three go on anything approaching a hot streak, it might even be a good rotation. All of those pitchers are either already above average (Santana, Berrios), somewhere around average (Mejia), or have a long track record of average pitching (Garcia, Santiago).

[Willihammer]

 

I don't think that is the case here. Back of the rotation starters are available cheap every off season. Sign and trades only make sense for above average players.

Right but I'm talking about a trade and sign, like Pavano.

[Nick Nelson]

 

Right but I'm talking about a trade and sign, like Pavano.

But they didn't really "trade and sign" Pavano. They offered arbitration and he accepted to get a one-year deal, which obviously worked out very nicely because he was great in 2010. Only after that did they give him the (ill-advised?) two-year contract.

 

Along those same lines, extending a qualifying offer to Garcia in is an interesting thought, but maybe not palatable given that it's now like 1 yr/$18m

[gman]

Reminds me a lot of the Tommy Milone trade. Except Milone was more effective and the cost wasn't as high.

Garcia's last two starts have been okay, but his 4 previous starts he pitched 22 innings and gave up 31 hits and 23 runs. He should fit right in. But he did hit a grandslam.

[Willihammer]

 

But they didn't really "trade and sign" Pavano. They offered arbitration and he accepted to get a one-year deal, which obviously worked out very nicely because he was great in 2010. Only after that did they give him the (ill-advised?) two-year contract.

 

Along those same lines, extending a qualifying offer to Garcia in is an interesting thought, but maybe not palatable given that it's now like 1 yr/$18m

Ah, I forgot that detail.

 

Don't think a QO would apply here anyways since he's a rental, no?

[howieramone2]

 

WHile I agree we gave up very little in this rental, the real point of the remainder of the season should be to find out if we need a Jaime Garcia signing next offseason.  

 

I get the "playoff" contention, but we are a barely .500 team with a runs differential that suggests we should be closer to the bottom of the league than a playoff contender, and the true fact of the matter is that the only reason we even look like a "contender" is that we are in the weakest division in baseball.

 

Instead, we should determine if we have a 4th/5th starter from within the organization by giving Hurlbut and Siegers an opportunity to pitch during the 2nd half of the season, and the time might be right to bring up Gonsalves to see if he is a 3rd/4th starter guy in the league.  

 

If one or more of those guys work out, then you don't need a Jaime Garcia.  But, if you give them 10 starts each and they cannot do the job, this offseason go out an sign a guy like Garcia to be that 4th starter type a decent roster needs.  

No. Also, I doubt Hurlbut and Siegers are even on the radar. I'm sure we will see Gonsalves no later than 9-1.

[biggentleben]

No mention of the fact that Recker's posterior will be a high point for those fans who will enjoy that...

 

That has to be a win!

 

(Seriously, that is one of the things that has been mentioned about him at every stop recently)

[biggentleben]

 

Ah, I forgot that detail.

 

Don't think a QO would apply here anyways since he's a rental, no?

 

That is correct. When I was on Cory's podcast, I hadn't looked that up, but I knew there were changes to the qualifying offer, so I couldn't say for sure that there was no QO available.

 

However, the actual offer system has not changed, and Garcia would not be eligible, but the return on those who do offer a qualifying offer is much less now, and players can only receive the qualifying offer once.

[kab21]

 

Hoping Sano becomes MVP level, and him actually doing it....... are two drastically different things. 

On pace for 35-40 HR's at 3B with a .900 OPS is getting there. Obviously it is a different thing to put up a 1.000+ OPS and 40+ HR's but we aren't that far off. 

 

Ah, I forgot that detail.

 

Don't think a QO would apply here anyways since he's a rental, no?

Yes, no QO is possible. And let's put the kibosh on any sort of an extension. We acquired him for nearly nothing and I am happy about it but I expect his arm to fall off at some point. Getting stuck with 4M in dead money is one thing. I really hope the Twins are aiming higher this offseason.

[DJL44]

"Santana, Berrios, Mejia, Garcia and Colon"

 

Add Santiago as the 6th starter and this has to be the most Latino pitching staff I can remember. Dominican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Mexican, Dominican, American of Puerto Rican descent.

[Mike Sixel]

 

"Santana, Berrios, Mejia, Garcia and Colon"

 

Add Santiago as the 6th starter and this has to be the most Latino pitching staff I can remember. Dominican, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Mexican, Dominican, American of Puerto Rican descent.

 

I had the same thought!

[Thrylos]

 

Trade bait? Maybe?

Was it Thrylos, some time ago, that advocated/predicted he'd finish the year in the pen if the Twins made a move?

 

Now that they got rid of Haley, and Hughes bit the dust, they really need a long/mop up man in the pen.  I think that part of Hildey's and Roger's problems come from the fact that they have been used for 2+ innings too often.   Santiago might actually help the team there

[Thrylos]

I was doing some reasearch to write a profile for Garcia, and I think that another reason that the Twins should like that he is only a rental is his injury history.  His pro career kinda goes like this:

 

2006 - first pro season out of High School 167-2/3 IP

2007 - second pro season - shut down in July with elbow lssues - R&R

2008 - third pro season - elbow blow - TJ surgery

2009 - fourth pro season TJ rehab

2010 - fifth pro season, partial after rehab 163-1/3 IP

2011 - sixth pro season, full, all the way to the WS. Ring! 220-1/3 IP

2012 - seventh pro season, half season lost with labrum inflammation & rotator cuff strain - R&R

2013 - eighth pro season, in May rotator cuff and labrum surgery

2014 - ninth pro season Shoulder "inflamation" R&R in ST, back for a month, TOS surgery

 

Relatively "healthy the last 2 seasons".  171-2/3 IP in 2015 and 113 so far this season. 

 

They guy had the combined surgeries of Phil Hughes, Glen Perkins and Trevor May.  His innings are getting up there. Again.   No matter what, the team that will be signing him in 2018 will be living on a prayer.  Hope it is not the Twins...

 

(And as much as we despise the Twins' med stuff decisions to rest and see what happens before final surgery, the Cards' was not that much better in Garcia's situation)

Edited July 25, 2017 by Thrylos

[Oxtung]

Right but I'm talking about a trade and sign, like Pavano.

So was I. There is no reason to sign a below average player to an extension unless the Twins are getting a deal. Those kinds of guys are available every year during the offseason when you can shop around and get the best offer.

 

In addition I sure hope the Twins are setting their sights higher this offseason. This rotation needs an above average pitcher (I'd argue they need 2 even) if the Twins are to be considered legitimate contenders next season.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Hector has to go through rehab. If they aren't overwhelmed by is pitching he may not see MLB again this year.

I'd take the Santiago we started the year with. We could really use that guy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Santiago's first rehab start is tonight with Rochester. Berardino reported he will make 3 such starts, which could put him in line to return around August 9th.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/twins-hector-santiago-scheduled-for-three-rehab-starts/

Edited July 25, 2017 by spycake

[Danchat]

 

I was doing some reasearch to write a profile for Garcia, and I think that another reason that the Twins should like that he is only a rental is his injury history.  His pro career kinda goes like this:

 

2006 - first pro season out of High School 167-2/3 IP

2007 - second pro season - shut down in July with elbow lssues - R&R

2008 - third pro season - elbow blow - TJ surgery

2009 - fourth pro season TJ rehab

2010 - fifth pro season, partial after rehab 163-1/3 IP

2011 - sixth pro season, full, all the way to the WS. Ring! 220-1/3 IP

2012 - seventh pro season, half season lost with labrum inflammation & rotator cuff strain - R&R

2013 - eighth pro season, in May rotator cuff and labrum surgery

2014 - ninth pro season Shoulder "inflamation" R&R in ST, back for a month, TOS surgery

 

Relatively "healthy the last 2 seasons".  171-2/3 IP in 2015 and 113 so far this season. 

 

They guy had the combined surgeries of Phil Hughes, Glen Perkins and Trevor May.  His innings are getting up there. Again.   No matter what, the team that will be signing him in 2018 will be living on a prayer.  Hope it is not the Twins...

 

(And as much as we despise the Twins' med stuff decisions to rest and see what happens before final surgery, the Cards' was not that much better in Garcia's situation)

So basically he isn't the type of guy we should try to give an extension...

[Mike Sixel]

FWIW, Dave Cameron (one of the FG guys), tweeted that while he was in theory opposed to the Twins buying, trading a low level guy for an average pitcher is a good deal (paraphrasing here).

[drjim]

 

FWIW, Dave Cameron (one of the FG guys), tweeted that while he was in theory opposed to the Twins buying, trading a low level guy for an average pitcher is a good deal (paraphrasing here).

 

Makes you wonder what he actually thought the Twins would do that would be so objectionable.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Makes you wonder what he actually thought the Twins would do that would be so objectionable.

 

I'm not sure he thought they'd do anything major, neither of us thought they would.....but I'd guess he would be opposed to trading top prospects for 1 player. He's not a believer in them being 1 player away this year.

[kab21]

 

I'm not sure he thought they'd do anything major, neither of us thought they would.....but I'd guess he would be opposed to trading top prospects for 1 player. He's not a believer in them being 1 player away this year.

Can anybody actually find someone that suggests they should make that kind of trade? That is my frustration with all of these 'counter arguments'. They aren't actually disagreeing with anyone.

[Thrylos]

 

Can anybody actually find someone that suggests they should make that kind of trade? That is my frustration with all of these 'counter arguments'. They aren't actually disagreeing with anyone.

 

There are people who have said "blow up the farm" for pitchers like Gray and Quintana and Stroman.  Young controllable Aces do not grow on trees, and the Twins really need one, but those 3 are not.  Chris Archer on the other hand, is.  I would not mind blowing up the farm for Chris Archer, because he will be part of the future (which will not be "mortgaged")  and because in positions of immediate need, the "farm" is not that great to begin with.  On the same breath, I would trade Dozier, Santana, and Kintzler for further young, controllable rotation and pen help.

 

Maybe Cameron disagrees with this type of thought.   

[Mike Sixel]

 

Can anybody actually find someone that suggests they should make that kind of trade? That is my frustration with all of these 'counter arguments'. They aren't actually disagreeing with anyone.

 

He wasn't arguing. He tweeted that the Twins should not be buyers. Then he tweeted that this kind of buying makes sense. He tweeted about a lot of teams and what they should do, that's his job. Then when they did something, he followed up. 

 

And, lots of people have suggested the Twins trade real prospects for Gray, for example. Lots of people. Especially here and on FG chats and other places.

[kab21]

 

He wasn't arguing. He tweeted that the Twins should not be buyers. Then he tweeted that this kind of buying makes sense. He tweeted about a lot of teams and what they should do, that's his job. Then when they did something, he followed up. 

 

And, lots of people have suggested the Twins trade real prospects for Gray, for example. Lots of people. Especially here and on FG chats and other places.

I see Gray as building for next year but not waiting until the offseason. Same as Quintana (now traded). I guess you could say that is buying but not necessarily for this playoff push although it does help.

[Mr. Brooks]

I see Gray as building for next year but not waiting until the offseason. Same as Quintana (now traded). I guess you could say that is buying but not necessarily for this playoff push although it does help.

Well if you are buying Gray for next year, why not just wait until the off-season when he'll be cheaper?

 

Also, there were a lot of people on here during the Garcia speculation saying they wouldn't object if the price was Thorpe or Garver! I'd call trading either of those players mortgaging the future for sure.

[the blade]

I didn't realize he was a Thoracic Outlet survivor!  I love the acquisition and the front office getting themselves in the mix, and sending a positive message to the players, etc.  

 

BUT, fangraphs did a piece not long ago about Thoracic Outlet guys...the surgeries to fix this have been overwhelmingly unsuccessful in terms of pitcher success after recovery.  The idea of extending Jamie should be pondered cautiously...which I'm sure Falvey and co will do.  Just sayin'

[Twinsoholic]

Can someone explain why the Twins acquired the catcher with Garcia? Was that part of the price for being able to acquire the pitcher?