Article: Deadline Primer: Should Nick Gordon Be On The Table?

[h2oface]

 

Not sure if serious, but he had TJ surgery this year. He's not likely to be super ready/effective next year.

 

It was a cheeky comment.  Seems to ruin it if I have to explain it. Shelby is a great example of what can happen. If I am the GM, I am not trading Gordon this year, for sure.

[Mike Sixel]

 

It was a cheeky comment.  Seems to ruin it if I have to explain it. Shelby is a great example of what can happen. If I am the GM, I am not trading Gordon this year, for sure.

 

then where will you get pitching? I don't think any team has ever bought 2 legit SPs in FA in one year, but I could be wrong about that.

 

edit to add:

If they never trade for a SP, out of fear, and they don't draft them in round 1, out of fear.....and signing guys into their late 30s is not done....where do they find pitching?

Edited July 12, 2017 by Mike Sixel

[Mike Sixel]

 

how about the twins spend in the off season instead?

 

I like the "and" instead of just "instead".....trade AND spend.

[nicksaviking]

 

if not, they are doing it wrong. IMO, of course.

 

if they expected all the pitchers they have added to fail, that's an issue too, I'd think.

 

As far as I know they haven't made any trades. I wouldn't expect a ton in season.

 

As far as the pitchers they add on minor league deals, every club does that. I was never expecting that method of acquiring players to be a big part of putting a team together.

 

Like I said, I'll give them the year to evaluate; come snowfall they better be making the trades and free agent signings needed to put together a contender.

[Tomj14]

 Wainwright is getting old and the Cards will need a former twins pitcher to take over (think Loshe), we trade the Gibson, Granite, Gordon for Reyes (is that over valuing our guys or what?)

[SF Twins Fan]

 

then where will you get pitching? I don't think any team has ever bought 2 legit SPs in FA in one year, but I could be wrong about that.

 

edit to add:

If they never trade for a SP, out of fear, and they don't draft them in round 1, out of fear.....and signing guys into their late 30s is not done....where do they find pitching?

 

Do they need to add two SP this offseason?  The Twins could easily go into next season with Santana, Berrios, FA acquisition - maybe Pineda, Mejia and Gibson. 

 

Starting the season next year the AAA starting rotation should be Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge and Slegers.  You'd have to think Thorpe will move up to AA at some point this season or the beginning of next season.  To me there is plenty of depth that would allow the Twins to only go after one offseason FA SP and then if s*** hits the fan next season with a few of the starting pitchers they could try and trade for another SP.

[laloesch]

 

Do they need to add two SP this offseason?  The Twins could easily go into next season with Santana, Berrios, FA acquisition - maybe Pineda, Mejia and Gibson. 

 

Starting the season next year the AAA starting rotation should be Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge and Slegers.  You'd have to think Thorpe will move up to AA at some point this season or the beginning of next season.  To me there is plenty of depth that would allow the Twins to only go after one offseason FA SP and then if s*** hits the fan next season with a few of the starting pitchers they could try and trade for another SP.

 

I would be thrilled if the team could get Gray for a reasonable price.  If they could pull that off, get rid of Santiago and Gibson right off the bat.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Do they need to add two SP this offseason?  The Twins could easily go into next season with Santana, Berrios, FA acquisition - maybe Pineda, Mejia and Gibson. 

 

Starting the season next year the AAA starting rotation should be Gonsalves, Romero, Jorge and Slegers.  You'd have to think Thorpe will move up to AA at some point this season or the beginning of next season.  To me there is plenty of depth that would allow the Twins to only go after one offseason FA SP and then if s*** hits the fan next season with a few of the starting pitchers they could try and trade for another SP.

 

Fair question. Good question.

 

Santana is 34 (I think) and is showing signs of slowing down some. And, he's gone after next year.

Gibson is bad.

Berrios is probably good.

Mejia is a wild card, but probably a 4 at best, imo.

FA

 

So, ya, if you are keeping Gibson or counting on May, then maybe you think you only need 1 SP. I think this team needs at least 2. But, I can see the argument they only need 1.

[MN_ExPat]

 

Gonsalves only has 23 AA starts. I'd hardly call that repeating, just because some came last year and some came this year.

And don't forget that "corner infielder" is hurt or there is a good chance he would be a Cedar Rapids right now.

 

The Twins DO have good (possibly great even) prospects.   We as fans get WAAAAY to hung up on that overly silly "Top 100" List.

[SF Twins Fan]

 

Fair question. Good question.

 

Santana is 34 (I think) and is showing signs of slowing down some. And, he's gone after next year.

Gibson is bad.

Berrios is probably good.

Mejia is a wild card, but probably a 4 at best, imo.

FA

 

So, ya, if you are keeping Gibson or counting on May, then maybe you think you only need 1 SP. I think this team needs at least 2. But, I can see the argument they only need 1.

 

 

I definitely agree Gibson is bad, but I doubt they DFA him and would assume he'll be in play for the 5th rotation spot next season. I see Mejia as flashing #3 type stuff and would think #4 would be his floor. He's still relatively young (Just turned 24 in June) and seems to be improving. I also wouldn't count on May adding much value until the mid point next season and even then they might stick him in the bullpen.

[Dr. Evil]

I would not trade Gordon. He is an almost ready high end prospect at a key position that can join our core very soon. He should be a fixture for years at a position that has been a turnstile in recent years.

[drivlikejehu]

 

I definitely agree Gibson is bad, but I doubt they DFA him and would assume he'll be in play for the 5th rotation spot next season. I see Mejia as flashing #3 type stuff and would think #4 would be his floor. He's still relatively young (Just turned 24 in June) and seems to be improving. I also wouldn't count on May adding much value until the mid point next season and even then they might stick him in the bullpen.

 

Gibson is a lock to be DFA'd.

[USAFChief]

Gibson is a lock to be DFA'd.

Won't they just not offer arb?

[Vanimal46]

 

Won't they just not offer arb?

 

Correct. Just not tender him a contract and move on. He won't be worth the arbitration price anyway. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

Perhaps a more interesting question.... would you include Buxton as the main piece of an Archer trade?

Yes. But, I would have done that two years ago. C'est la vie.

[amjgt]

Fair question. Good question.

 

Santana is 34 (I think) and is showing signs of slowing down some. And, he's gone after next year.

Gibson is bad.

Berrios is probably good.

Mejia is a wild card, but probably a 4 at best, imo.

FA

 

So, ya, if you are keeping Gibson or counting on May, then maybe you think you only need 1 SP. I think this team needs at least 2. But, I can see the argument they only need 1.

Santana has a team option for the year after next. At $14M, that's an absolute lock to get picked up unless he just completely falls off a cliff. (Also, it would vest if he throws 200 innings next year or 400 combined between this year and next year)

 

Basically.... unless we trade him, he's on this team for 2 more years after this one

[yarnivek1972]

Santana has a team option for the year after next. At $14M, that's an absolute lock to get picked up unless he just completely falls off a cliff. (Also, it would vest if he throws 200 innings next year or 400 combined between this year and next year)

 

Basically.... unless we trade him, he's on this team for 2 more years after this one

The way I read it, Santana has to throw 200 innings in 2018 AND 400 in 2017-18. Which would mean that if Santana reaches 220 this year (which he could) he would still need 200 next year, not just 180.

[Sweetwater]

Not trading Gordon. He's either not enough, or too much to give. And guys who have a ceiling of something like Jimmy Rollins are valuable.

[Deduno Abides]

then where will you get pitching? I don't think any team has ever bought 2 legit SPs in FA in one year, but I could be wrong about that.

 

edit to add:

If they never trade for a SP, out of fear, and they don't draft them in round 1, out of fear.....and signing guys into their late 30s is not done....where do they find pitching?

The dream scenario is the Cubs: trade for Arrieta and sign Lester.

[Thrylos]

 

Not trading Gordon. He's either not enough, or too much to give. And guys who have a ceiling of something like Jimmy Rollins are valuable.

 

Not.Even.Close.  Jimmy Rollins had 20+ HRs and 30+ SB 5 times his career, including 30+ HRs and 40+ SB once.  8 seasons of 3.5+ fWAR and 3 seasons of 5+ fWAR.  1 MVP, 3 gold gloves and career 3.5 UZR/150 (peak 15.1) at SS.  Career 49.4 fWAR.  Rollins was a superstar.  I'd be happy if Gordon gets close, but I don't even see him stick at SS...

[KidBro]

Not to get too far away from the topic, but since the link to the Fiensand article was included in this piece, I'd just like to applaud a FO that is realistic, and w/ out exposing his cards, but can still relate to the fan base their intentions..... That I think we all would agree with, just differing of opinions on how we get there.  Maybe being from Iowa I'm so used to the Kirk Ferentz (Iowa FB coach) and Terry Ryan "we are going to put our best players on the field and be as competitive as we can" mantra.  It's nice to hear some fresh takes from the FO rather than the repetitive PR "we gotta play them one game at a time.  I'm just happy to be here, hope I can help the ballclub" BS.  

 

[TKGuy]

If we get quality controllable starters, all minor leaguers, and Rosario/Granite should be on the table

[amjgt]

The way I read it, Santana has to throw 200 innings in 2018 AND 400 in 2017-18. Which would mean that if Santana reaches 220 this year (which he could) he would still need 200 next year, not just 180.

It's a moot point. $14M for Santana is a bargain. If the Twins were looking to deal Santana, his possible suitors would view that option year as a huge positive.

[Monkeypaws]

This thread reminds me of AZ packaging Dansby Swanson for Shelby Miller. Risky business that.

 

I'm also reminded of DeLeon for Dozier. Another bullet dodged.

 

That's why I'd never package a top prospect at a premium position for a pitcher: they're fragile, or can tank suddenly. Ramos for Capps also comes to mind.

 

I hope the FO will take the patient approach - we have some good pitching at AA that might make it here soon. Falvey is reputed to be very good at getting pitching on-board. I'm hoping he can spot a Arrieta or someone like that in someone else's system, continue to draft and develop, and go from there.

 

Rome wsn't built in a day, and it'll take more than 1 pitcher to turn this staff around. I'm always thinking of sustainability, and throwing away top prospects at this point of the rebuild is premature.

 

 

[jimmer]

We have two players who should be off limits for high-quality longtime controlled starting pitching.

 

Our future DH (Sano) and Berrios.

[Mr. Brooks]

oh boy...

 

without touching the unnecessary implication, he should be a DH now and hopefully he goes there sooner rather than later.

No, he shouldn't be DH now. He's been adequate at 3B.

[jimmer]

 

No, he shouldn't be DH now. He's been adequate at 3B.

I guess it depends on what one defines as adequate.  Last in DRS, second to last in range, and a negative UZR.

[yarnivek1972]

oh boy...

 

without touching the unnecessary implication, he should be a DH now and hopefully he goes there sooner rather than later.

He lacks range, but he has been pretty good at third IMO. If he played there regularly, I suspect he'd be more than adequate at first.

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess it depends on what one defines as adequate. Last in DRS, second to last in range, and a negative UZR.

And he's played about a total of 1.5 seasons of the last 5 at 3B due to injury, or moving positions due to roster decisions. The eye test shows a guy who can handle the position once he gets some consistent reps.

I realize you haven't wanted him there from the start, and were angry that Plouffe wasn't brought back to play 3B, it might be time to eat some crow on that one. I think he's available if he's an upgrade over Sano.

[jimmer]

 

And he's played about a total of 1.5 seasons of the last 5 at 3B due to injury, or moving positions due to roster decisions. The eye test shows a guy who can handle the position once he gets some consistent reps.
I realize you haven't wanted him there from the start, and were angry that Plouffe wasn't brought back to play 3B, it might be time to eat some crow on that one. I think he's available if he's an upgrade over Sano.

Yeah, I didn't want him there.  Don't really care that Plouffe is gone, I just prefer to have quality defenisve players and I don't see that in Sano.  He does make occasional very good plays, like most MLBers do, (and sometimes our announcers make it seem like the plays he makes are greater than they actually are), but it's about the body of work.

 

I have no crow to eat. He's not a quality defensive 3B.  Just cause he hasn't been a full-fledged disaster this year doesn't change that. His bat has been top notch and it certainly helps take away some of the loss we get from him defensively.

 

Sorry this conversation has gotten derailed.  Back to Nick Gordon being on the table in a trade.

 

Yes.

Edited July 13, 2017 by jimmer