His career trajectory is similar to that of Nick Blackburn.  Can we do the same thing we did with Blackburn if Gibson's next outing resembles this last one?  Honestly, why even have him?

I'm hoping it's Gibson who goes when Colon is ready.

His career trajectory is similar to that of Nick Blackburn. Can we do the same thing we did with Blackburn if Gibson's next outing resembles this last one? Honestly, why even have him?

It's called a lack of better options. Maybe give Slegers and/or Hurlbut a shot but frankly not much suggests results better than Tepesch or Turley. I don't see Colon as a better option either.

 

It's called a lack of better options. Maybe give Slegers and/or Hurlbut a shot but frankly not much suggests results better than Tepesch or Turley. I don't see Colon as a better option either.

 

They should have bumped Gonsalves to AAA weeks ago. He should be knocking on the door right now. 

 

I'm hoping it's Gibson who goes when Colon is ready.

But then who takes the open spot in the rotation? We can't just pray for rain.

There are no better options?  I don't believe that is true.  We could probably spot start Duffey and get better results even though he is pitching badly as of late.

 

Whether or not there are not better options, this is a pitcher in what is supposed to be his prime, nearing an arbitration year, pitching to a well over 5.00 for the second year in a row.  FIND SOMEONE if there are no better options.  Just get rid of this guy

But then who takes the open spot in the rotation? We can't just pray for rain.

Santiago will be back from DL before a 5th starter is needed.

 

Berrios

Erv

Mejia

Colon

Santiago

 

I get that Santiago isn't a great option either, but he's still better than Gibson, IMO.

I don't see Colon as a better option either.

That might be true, but he's going to get a shot once he's ready.

He's not going to go ride buses in AAA at his age unless he's been promised a shot in the rotation.

Colon or anyone else simply needs to be a DIFFERENT option.  We don't need to worry about anyone being better because most AAAA arms can probably replace what Gibson has done this year.  Even if pitcher X does slightly worse than Gibson (and you can't do much worse), we rid ourselves of a horrible pitcher who has long outstayed his useful life.

 

Santiago will be back from DL before a 5th starter is needed.

Berrios
Erv
Mejia
Colon
Santiago

I get that Santiago isn't a great option either, but he's still better than Gibson, IMO.

Are we sure he'll be ready by then? Do we even want him to be pitching this soon?

That might be true, but he's going to get a shot once he's ready.

He's not going to go ride buses in AAA at his age unless he's been promised a shot in the rotation.

Most AAA road trips are by airplane. Obviously, a team like Rochester wouldn't fly to Buffalo, but they would to most of the cities in the IL.

What has Duffy done to prove he's a better pitcher? The rate he's trending, he'll have a similar ERA soon.

Gibson has been quite disappointing, but he was almost OK in June and the team is essentially doing tryouts already for one spot in the rotation. Over the next few weeks, there is a reasonable chance that Santana could be traded, leaving two open spots. Santiago has not proven that he's any better than Gibson, and now he's sounding questionable in the clubhouse. There's nobody in AAA who's shown real potential. Much as fans may want Gonsalves and Romero, they're pitching well in AA, but not exactly dominating, and the team isn't going to rush them. If Gibson were removed, that would make two open spots with the potential for a third if Santana is traded. It is unlikely any team wants to have tryouts for two spots in the rotation, especially when they may open another spot. Therefore, unless and until someone else steps up, the best choice is to hope for the best from Gibson.

 

Right now, someone else means Colon and Gee. It sure would have been nice if Meyer, May and Stewart (and Worley) had worked out.

Santiago or Colon....yeah, that'll work out a whole lot better.

I get that people want him gone, but lets look at our options at this point.  Santiago, suddenly can't even throw 90 mph.  He's been just as bad for a long time now.  Duffy was about just as bad last year and hasn't pitched well lately.  Colon was even worse this year in the NL.  You can say minor league pitchers x, y, and z can replace him and perform just as good, but in reality we've seen that is just not true with the guys we've thrown out there.  I would be fine with sending him to AAA again and trying other people, but if they fail even worse, such as Turley, I would rather have him to fall back on.  

Edited July 10, 20179 yr by sftwinsfan

Side comment: it's unclear to me what accomplishments Neil Allen has had, but one thing I note is that Gibson had a pretty good change and sinker in 2015 and that both are now scoring much worse. However, Gibson seems healthy. Allen had a reputation as a change expert. If Allen can't help Gibson, or at least keep him even with his past averageness, what good is Allen?

 

Side-side comment: Allen also had a reputation as the minor league pitcher guru for the Rays, but they don't seem to be missing him. Maybe his reputation was as undeserved as that Gonzaga coach hired for Gophers basketball several years ago. Gonzaga just got better after he left while the Gophers became terrible.

 

Most AAA road trips are by airplane. Obviously, a team like Rochester wouldn't fly to Buffalo, but they would to most of the cities in the IL.

You mean, like this?

 

 

 

 

Are we sure he'll be ready by then? Do we even want him to be pitching this soon?

I agree with this a ton.  I really, really wish that Gibby could have been kept in AAA for a good while longer, too.  Unfortunately, it seems injuries and schedule stuff cut his time there short, and he did seem to have a little more of an idea when he first came back, but....  here we go again.

 

Get Gee up, and Gibby back down, for a good stretch this time.  Then we can see what we may have in Gee, given a few starts, plug a hole there, and by the time he sinks slowly in the West, Colon may be ready for his fill-in shot.  I don't want to see Santiago either, for the rest of the season, unless absolutely necessary.  Santiago may have a physical issue this time, but Gibby's problem seems to be upstairs.  Both those guys could benefit by some extended AAA time to work out their respective issues outside the mlb pressure-cooker.

Gibson just doesn't have MLB-level command. It's a fairly straightforward problem and there's really no reason to think it's fixable at this point in his career.

I get the overall frustration. But prior to today, he'd had several decent starts in a row, and we don't have any better options. Santiago is not an upgrade, and it's unlikely Colon is either. If his first two starts after the break are like today, then you make a move. 

 

Gibson has been quite disappointing, but he was almost OK in June and the team is essentially doing tryouts already for one spot in the rotation. Over the next few weeks, there is a reasonable chance that Santana could be traded, leaving two open spots. Santiago has not proven that he's any better than Gibson, and now he's sounding questionable in the clubhouse. There's nobody in AAA who's shown real potential. Much as fans may want Gonsalves and Romero, they're pitching well in AA, but not exactly dominating, and the team isn't going to rush them. If Gibson were removed, that would make two open spots with the potential for a third if Santana is traded. It is unlikely any team wants to have tryouts for two spots in the rotation, especially when they may open another spot. Therefore, unless and until someone else steps up, the best choice is to hope for the best from Gibson.

Right now, someone else means Colon and Gee. It sure would have been nice if Meyer, May and Stewart (and Worley) had worked out.

 

This of course is assuming they trade Santana and do not get anyone back in the trade that is MLB ready.  We can hope that a second piece could be a lower ceiling MLB pitcher. 

Dude hits 95 with a sinking 4 seamer.  That is hard to find. Slider and change can both be swing and miss pitches when the command is there (sporatic).  I'd rather see him scrap a pitch and move to the pen before giving up on the guy.  To me, he's a 5th starter.  He has ok ones, and he has rough ones.  That's what 5th starters do.

Are only option to replace Gibson is an overweight senior. Stick Gibson in the bullpen since our bullpen needs help too.

Gibson just doesn't have MLB-level command. It's a fairly straightforward problem and there's really no reason to think it's fixable at this point in his career.

Yep, pretty much this.

Are Santiago and Gibson being brought back next year? Is Colon or Gee a long term answer? Slegers or Hurlbut may not be #3 or 4 long term in the rotation but the team does need to find out if they have a 5, 6 or 7 available at AAA. This years pitching try out camps for both the bullpen and rotation hasn't give many long term answers for a (hoped) future playoff team. I continue to hope for better results next year. We are only 6 or 7 weeks away from the and of the minor league season and may see some future pieces be added in September..

You have to be disappointed if you're one of the young AAA starters. The Twins keep bringing in waiver wire pickups or bringing up a starter from AA when they need a 5th starter, the AAA starters have to be wondering why they are there or thinking "what am I, chopped liver"?

 

Can we do the same thing we did with Blackburn if Gibson's next outing resembles this last one?  

 

sign him to a ridiculous and unnecessary contract extension? 

I think the best thing to do is market him to an NL team who might be able to turn him around.  Maybe like Pittsburgh who has made Ivan Nova into an almost All Star

 

You have to be disappointed if you're one of the young AAA starters. The Twins keep bringing in waiver wire pickups or bringing up a starter from AA when they need a 5th starter, the AAA starters have to be wondering why they are there or thinking "what am I, chopped liver"?

 

The AAA starting options stink much worse than chopped liver. At least chopped liver can be used as bait to bring in bigger & better fish.

 

Making it to AAA is quite an accomplishment but it doesn't mean they're destined to be an MLB player. Sports are (ideally) a meritocracy.

According to Paul Molitor in this article,

 

Friday @ Houston: J.O. Berrios

Saturday @Houston: Ervin Santana
Sunday @ Houston: Kyle Gibson
Monday home vs. Yankees: Adalberto Mejia
Tuesday home vs. Yankees: ???

 

Tuesday could be Colon, Hughes, Santiago, Gee, Jorge.  I think Gibson's start Sunday could be a make-or-break, because I figure Santiago will be in the rotation upon return, and they'll give at least a few starts to Colon.  If they want to buy an extra start or two for Gibson, they could send Santiago for a rehab start or two at Rochester.

 

Edited July 10, 20179 yr by Respy