An Upside Down World

[Squirrel]

 

Yup.  The only thing that might get done over this is to put a bunch of armed people into schools.  

 

And that will do jack squat.  I shouldn't have to fear for the kids I take care of every year that we might get interrupted from word problems by a nut with an automatic weapon.  It's ridiculous.  But if a classroom of dead 6 year olds doesn't move the needle, I shudder to think what will.  

Do you have drills for this? My sister does ... lockdown drills.

[ashbury]

Plenty are pointing out mental health plays a major factor in these things.... obviously.

Always obvious... in retrospect. But just try prying the gun away from a person's warm living hands via a psychiatric finding and court order, though. A county would have to be prepared for $1M at minimum in legal fees each time they try. Not to mention that to have any effect, you'll end up taking away guns from people who turn out to not be a threat after all - someone who just mouthed off on Facebook for example. Not to mention the potential for criminal mischief against someone the authorities don't like.

 

The people all concerned about Deep State and Teh Eliteses!!1! suddenly think those are fine and dandy if it lets them keep their guns.

[TheLeviathan]

 

There was an armed guard at this school.....

 

Oh?  That's news I hadn't heard yet.

 

Not that it'll stop the narrative.  Guess every school need an armed entourage then.  I'm sure the Republicans will have no problem handing that money to the educational system while we teachers scrape to make ends meet.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Yup.  The only thing that might get done over this is to put a bunch of armed people into schools.  

 

And that will do jack squat.  I shouldn't have to fear for the kids I take care of every year that we might get interrupted from word problems by a nut with an automatic weapon.  It's ridiculous.  But if a classroom of dead 6 year olds doesn't move the needle, I shudder to think what will.  

Or a gunshow shooting, where the fact that everyone was armed didn't make a lick of difference. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Or a gunshow shooting, where the fact that everyone was armed didn't make a lick of difference. 

 

You seem to be under the impression that logic and facts might get in the way........

[Badsmerf]

A friend of mine posted a meme suggesting we put 3 armed veterans at every school. I guess it just gets ignored that an armed veteran decided to shoot people up not all that long ago?

[Vanimal46]

I'm broken and numb... School shootings happen too often that I can't even muster the proper anger, disgust, or sadness anymore.

[Doomtints]

 

Oh?  That's news I hadn't heard yet.

 

Not that it'll stop the narrative.  Guess every school need an armed entourage then.  I'm sure the Republicans will have no problem handing that money to the educational system while we teachers scrape to make ends meet.

 

Yes, there was an armed guard who not only did not engage the shooter but who went nowhere near the situation. No one can explain why, but whatever excuse we hear later will be ridiculous. What this amounts to is the guard thought he was making an easy salary and he disappeared when it was time for him to work. (But, on the other hand, it's not like he would have made much of a difference. The armed guards on campus thing is a giant red herring. They won't help defuse anything, they will only raise tensions in an active shooter situation.)

Did you know that gun violence in the US costs every American man, woman and child $700 per year? Where are the "fiscal conservatives"?

[TheLeviathan]

 

Do you have drills for this? My sister does ... lockdown drills.

 

Yes and in the last 3 years I've been retrained on response techniques twice.  They no longer, after Sandy Hook, tell us to hunker down and hope for the best.  There are a number of responses we're trained to do depending on the circumstances.  For instance, I'm near an exit in my classroom and our job is to get out if we can.   If we can't, we barricade the doors.  And we practice this several times a year.

 

As for the armed guard, it sounds like this was a large campus.  It's impossible, in high school, to have armed personnel at every entrance.  Smaller schools can funnel everyone in through one entrance, but once you reach a certain size of school that just isn't feasible.  Plus, it's one step closer to basically turning the schools into a constant state of lock down.

 

The problem isn't how locked down or safe the schools are, the problem is that those who want to cause harm have the means to cause as much as they want.  

[DaveW]

I'm glad that school budgets/education in general get pretty much slashed across the board year in and year out, but when it comes to putting a ****ing army at each and every school the GOP and congress as a whole would likely dump hundreds of millions into that program.

God this country sucks.  

[TheLeviathan]

Three things I've thought listening to all the back and forth talk:

 

1) Prayer in schools has come up.  Pray all you want in school, I just won't be leading it and no teacher should be asked to at a public school.  And if the implication is kids not praying means god ignores this violence....well, your god is a real piece of work.

 

2) Arming teachers.  Most teachers are women.  Many of those women are older or petite or both.  Many men that work in the profession are also smaller and less physically able than some of their students.  Some teachers are just not attentive enough.  Giving teachers a gun is inviting some student to turn a classroom into a shooting gallery over their anger or misbehavior.  The sheer number of things that could go wrong are ridiculous in scope.  I can't believe it is seriously being suggested.

 

3) We've heard about the breakdown in parenting.  Yeah, that's real, but it knows no specific ideology, race, political affiliation, or geographic location.  Many of these deranged youths are being raised by the very same right wingers that are decrying the breakdown of society.  Or they are the parents of the parents that are causing it.  The hypocrisy is thick.

[Badsmerf]

The parenting thing really really bothers me. Every single year I've been alive, people are clamoring about what parents these days do wrong. Every. Single. Year. Parenting only goes so far. Plus, this kid that just shot people up.... his patents are dead. The audacity people have to blindly blame patents they've never met, never seen parent their kids... A is so infuriating... I just can't.

 

My kids can be very difficult. Some kids, are more difficult than mine, many are less difficult. I do think there is a right and wrong way to raise kids.... but I also know that my opinion is just that, an opinion. I could very well be wrong.

 

Also, the generations before mine, were terrible patents. More knowledge and studies have been done to understand how kids think, and our ability to parent and teach effectively has increased. Blaming parents for tragedies is on my short list of pet peeves... and that is coming from someone that has a specific ideal patenting style.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The parenting thing really really bothers me. Every single year I've been alive, people are clamoring about what parents these days do wrong. Every. Single. Year. Parenting only goes so far. Plus, this kid that just shot people up.... his patents are dead. The audacity people have to blindly blame patents they've never met, never seen parent their kids... A is so infuriating... I just can't.

My kids can be very difficult. Some kids, are more difficult than mine, many are less difficult. I do think there is a right and wrong way to raise kids.... but I also know that my opinion is just that, an opinion. I could very well be wrong.

Also, the generations before mine, were terrible patents. More knowledge and studies have been done to understand how kids think, and our ability to parent and teach effectively has increased. Blaming parents for tragedies is on my short list of pet peeves... and that is coming from someone that has a specific ideal patenting style.

 

From my perspective, the difference in a kid's life between involved parents and not involved is enormous.  And involvement can look a lot of different ways.  There is no one right way to discipline or care, just as long as you have a consistent system for both.

 

Let your kids know you love them.  Let them know how to show kindness and empathy.  Let them know what it's like to fail and to succeed.  Let them know how to make choices themselves.  To have self-respect, but respect for others.  

 

There's many more, but there is no one right way.  Unfortunately, far too many children do not have any of these things in their life but in the classrooms myself and many other badly underappreciated men and women provide for them.

[nicksaviking]

 

Three things I've thought listening to all the back and forth talk:

 

 

2) Arming teachers.  Most teachers are women.  Many of those women are older or petite or both.  Many men that work in the profession are also smaller and less physically able than some of their students.  Some teachers are just not attentive enough.  Giving teachers a gun is inviting some student to turn a classroom into a shooting gallery over their anger or misbehavior.  The sheer number of things that could go wrong are ridiculous in scope.  I can't believe it is seriously being suggested.

 

 

Back to my HS days, the first teacher that comes to my mind when thinking about who would WANT to be armed, is absolutely the last guy that should be armed. 

 

If I remember the newspapers correctly, it took multiple officers to get him out of the district building after the school board finally got the nerve to not renew his contract.

 

[TheLeviathan]

Theres that too. You are arming overworked, underpaid people who work in a high stress environment. Plenty could go wrong from the inside.

[ashbury]

Back to my HS days, the first teacher that comes to my mind when thinking about who would WANT to be armed, is absolutely the last guy that should be armed. 

 

If I remember the newspapers correctly, it took multiple officers to get him out of the district building after the school board finally got the nerve to not renew his contract.

You are overlooking the obvious solution. Arm the file clerks and admins in the school district office.

[jimmer]

 

You are overlooking the obvious solution. Arm the file clerks and admins in the school district office.

Or even more obvious, home school.

[ashbury]

Or even more obvious, home school.

"Don't try anything, kid. I've got you covered."

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Speaking of kids, the kids in Florida sound angry. That is good. I hope they stay angry.

 

 

That said... 

 

I'm sure Fox News is plotting ways to destroy these kids so they are never heard from again.

 

And I also hope the "liberal" media doesn't turn it into "Kids vs. Trump" because that's not what this is.

 

And I also hope for free beer and unicorns. 

[Badsmerf]

This response by our youth is hopefully turning heads. They are really pushing and calling politicians out. Also, the nra seems to be silent.. Unless I'm missing something.

[Squirrel]

Meanwhile, I’m trying not to get sucked into conversations that start with, ‘We have enough gun control. If you want to save lives, let’s lower the speed limit to 25mph.’ I can’t win that one and shouldn’t even try, yet I do.

[TheLeviathan]

 

This response by our youth is hopefully turning heads. They are really pushing and calling politicians out. Also, the nra seems to be silent.. Unless I'm missing something.

 

They aren't silent in their circles.  They're offering money to schools to train and arm personnel.  

 

I remain pessimistic anything gets done.  Everyone talks a tough game while the passions are enflamed, but then legislation gets dragged through the mud until it slowly dies away.  Think bump stocks and all the agreement we heard over that.  Where'd it go?  Nowhere.

 

Maybe (I hope) I'm wrong and this becomes a major election issue.  But that may not necessarily be a good thing either.  Plenty of gun nuts posting memes about their shotgun sitting peacefully on a porch not killing anyone and teachers drawing handguns in front of their kids.  Those people vote too.  And, generally speaking, they're better at organizing.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Think bump stocks and all the agreement we heard over that.  Where'd it go?  Nowhere.

Trump just ordered the DOJ to ban bump stocks. (Not sure he has the authority to do that without a legislative act, but it is something.)

[TheLeviathan]

 

Trump just ordered the DOJ to ban bump stocks. (Not sure he has the authority to do that without a legislative act, but it is something.)

 

Well that's good, but it wasn't Congress.  They let that issue die down as soon as they could.

 

My point was more that as soon as the clamor dies down, they slink back to the NRA and forget what they promised to talk about.

[Badsmerf]

Trump just ordered the DOJ to ban bump stocks. (Not sure he has the authority to do that without a legislative act, but it is something.)

Not quite. He sent it into the review process of the atf... which will take months for them to review, and gives the gop a cop out. I did see the nra sending threatening letters in Wisconsin...

[Craig Arko]

Meanwhile, I’m trying not to get sucked into conversations that start with, ‘We have enough gun control. If you want to save lives, let’s lower the speed limit to 25mph.’ I can’t win that one and shouldn’t even try, yet I do.

Yes, I am engaging the crazies once again, too. Thankless task but somebody’s got to do it.

[D. Hocking]

Not to be cynical, but I read somewhere that the NRA does not really make much off of the bump stocks, so it is something they could pretend to compromise on and it would not hurt their bottom line.  Also, Trump has been known to say he is going to do things and not follow up -- Melania will shortly explain the discrepancies that make it seem she was an illegal immigrant for awhile, he is going to fight the opioid epedemic and gives it to KellyAnne with no money, at one time he said he would release his taxes when the audit was done (I think he has stopped pretending with that one) etc.

 

I read that the NRA's Wayne LaPierre will be speaking at CPAC (along with Trump and Pence) but they are purposely keeping his name off of the program.  I don't expect any true gun control while the GOP are holding tightly to the NRA money.

 

Also, whoever predicted they would start going after the kids - you are right.  This guy is particularly awful, but I have seen some dissemination of memes that discredit the Parkland kids who are speaking out against the NRA and for gun control.  There really is no bottom right now.

[Mr. Brooks]

The school police officer who did nothing while 17 children were murdered should be held partially liable.

[ashbury]

The school police officer who did nothing while 17 children were murdered should be held partially liable.

He's apparently receiving disciplinary action, but this highlights the disconnect between theory and reality, when we talk about providing ever increasing levels of armed resistance to thwart atrocities. This guy took up a defensive position, but it's not clear to me that it's known for certain what better action he could have taken. The uncertainty inherent in such a situation kind of guarantees that. There's surely no value in his going in gung-ho and getting picked off in the first three seconds. It's immensely admirable to be the one who heads toward where the trouble is rather than away, but you do need to stay alive in order to accomplish anything.

 

We did what the gun lobby demanded. Hired an armed "school resource deputy". It accomplished bupkis.

 

So now, what next? Arm the teachers, and then hold them "partially liable" if they freeze up and fail to take decisive action?

 

There's this mistaken notion that if you arm enough people, some Hero will swoop in and make things right like in the movies. Instead, what will happen occasionally is one Hero will fire at another Hero, or some of the kids get caught in crossfire, thereby compounding the problem. This poor schlub at least didn't make things worse, but in any case his hiring did not achieve the intended purpose.

 

But there is no gun problem too big, apparently, that can't be solved by more guns. As Homer Simpson said, "TO ALCOHOL! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." Any time one is following Homer Simpson's train of thought, it should be disquieting.

 

The quicker you get off of the wrong path, the better.

[TheLeviathan]

If they wanted to hold me "partially liable" they can take the meager paycheck they already give me and shove it.  There is already a crisis in terms of the number of qualified teachers we have, if you make them carry weapons they will leave in droves.  I'd quit on the spot and I love what I do despite all the negatives...but that would be a bridge way too far.

 

But then, I'm already the babysitter, parent, nurse, scientist, counselor, psychologist, behavior analyst, artist, tech support, maid, hygenist, diplomat, writer, life coach, actor, manager, legal counsel, spiritual advisor, moral compass, activity planner, ringmaster, and consultant for these kids.....

 

what the hell, why not add police officer too huh?