An Upside Down World

[twinsnorth49]

Wow, and they let this maroon carry a loaded weapon.

 

Scary.

[biggentleben]

 

Honestly, who the heck would want that job who has their head on straight? Why go to college to be a police officer when you can make quadruple+ what a police officer makes doing something else.

 

The new generation of police officers is bottom of the barrel, with a few exceptions.

 

I will say in our community, the training and leadership in our department has been outstanding. I won't say that has been my experience in every community, but I do find the total support or total dislike of the police to be misguided in both directions.

[DaveW]

IMO the police unions are the main culprit.

 

Thin blue line and all that stuff is garbage.

[drjim]

IMO the police unions are the main culprit.

 

Thin blue line and all that stuff is garbage.

Clearly police unions have made the calculation that it is too risky to truly open up, allowing much more Monday morning QBing and making their job that much more impossible.

 

Politically it is still tough in most parts of the country to be too critical of police. Like most things that is shifting in younger generations. But older people are much more tolerant of police as an institution.

[kab21]

 

Honestly, who the heck would want that job who has their head on straight? Why go to college to be a police officer when you can make quadruple+ what a police officer makes doing something else.

 

The new generation of police officers is bottom of the barrel, with a few exceptions.

This is an issue in many important public service jobs in the US and will become worse as $15/hr minimum wage (or higher) increases take place. Why is anyone going to do the training and the really, really hard work when they could do an easier job for fair pay?

I honestly can't think of any reason that someone would be a teacher right now considering the pay, the stress, the long hours and scapegoating (not my kid's fault). Same goes firemen, paramedics and many things that we take for granted. But I really think teachers are the most at risk because we treat them awful.

 

And to return to police officers. We are now blaming all of these officers for the actions of what I still consider the few. It is getting harder to maintain the belief that it is just a few but there are probably 100's of thousands of officers in the US and even though these cases are seemingly quite common (way too many though), the vast majority do not behave like this. I have no confidence in the police review (for shootings or use of force) process though. Zero faith in that.

[drjim]

We are also making police, like teachers, a near impossible job by tasking them with things that should be addressed through other means.

 

Piling more and more on public servants for less and less (relative) pay is not a sustainable formula.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

We are also making police, like teachers, a near impossible job by tasking them with things that should be addressed through other means.

Piling more and more on public servants for less and less (relative) pay is not a sustainable formula.

Like what?

[nicksaviking]

 

We are also making police, like teachers, a near impossible job by tasking them with things that should be addressed through other means.

Piling more and more on public servants for less and less (relative) pay is not a sustainable formula.

 

Agreed. And by making these jobs so thankless, you're almost certainly going to get only two types of people interested:

 

The absolute best humanity has to offer. Those who feel the call to serve their communities outweighs the poor pay, the danger and the awful side effects that go with an impossible-to-please-everyone job.

 

And

 

Absolute scumbags who grow up dreaming of asserting authority, getting to initiate confrontations and openly carrying a firearm.

 

 

[drjim]

Like what?

Poverty, broken homes, mental illness, drug addiction for starters.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Poverty, broken homes, mental illness, drug addiction for starters.

Good; I see what you are getting at. But make no mistake, the police love the power and they love the overtime, and the system is happy to give it to them.

[drjim]

Good; I see what you are getting at. But make no mistake, the police love the power and they love the overtime, and the system is happy to give it to them.

I don't disagree, there are certainly needs for reform.

 

I would open up incident investigations more for starters. Much can flow from that. I understand why police unions push back, but I think they're misguided and it ultimately harms police in the long run.

[nicksaviking]

 

Good; I see what you are getting at. But make no mistake, the police love the power and they love the overtime, and the system is happy to give it to them.

 

I'm siding with the victims in just about every one of these cases of police brutality and murder.

 

But comments like this make it look like we're labeling all police the same. If we don't want them to stereotype and assume the worst about all minorities, we probably shouldn't do the same to them.

 

If anything is ever going to get fixed, we're going to need the good officers to speak up and step up. And there are plenty of good officers.

[Willihammer]

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-philando-castile-shooting-and-some-advice-for-my-cop-readers

 

I think this would be a good read for cops and civilians alike.

[Willihammer]

Do we know what happens next with Yanez? Is he returning to his old job or has his career been changed / ended?

[drjim]

Do we know what happens next with Yanez? Is he returning to his old job or has his career been changed / ended?

Thought he was already let go.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Thought he was already let go.

 

they agreed to part ways, I believe.....

[Craig Arko]

 

Do we know what happens next with Yanez? Is he returning to his old job or has his career been changed / ended?

And the family is filing a civil suit against him.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

I will say in our community, the training and leadership in our department has been outstanding. I won't say that has been my experience in every community, but I do find the total support or total dislike of the police to be misguided in both directions.

You know, I should have phrased my last sentence a bit less extreme. It was not accurate. I am glad you have had a positive experience in your community with Law Enforcement. I have never really had a negative experience personally, the only thing I can recall is that I was pulled over about 7-8 years ago and no reason was given for being pulled over. The officer asked for my ID and Car Insurance and that was the end of it. At the time I had long hair and I assume he thought I was some stoner and wanted to see if I was smoking ganja in my car or something... who knows. I'm not a pot smoker, it felt a little like profiling, but whatever, It didn't bother me.

 

What bothers me, is that the only people I have seen personally in the last 10ish years being pulled over are african americans and it's not on the wrong side of the tracks, it is in the suburbs, good city neighborhoods and such. Sometimes I have to do a double take because It seems unreal.

 

I have spent a good amount of time on the wrong side of tracks and those situations were a given, but it seems like it has gotten worse. It's not good by any measure.

 

My godmother, who is a close family relative was a police officer for 25 years. She hated it, it was a Good Ol' boys club and they treated women on the force like sub-humans. She could not quit as she was a single mother of 3 boys and the money needs to keep coming in. It haunts her to this day and she has been out of it for nearly 20 years. It's a power trip and a good amount of these officers beat on their chest like a god damn ape and lay waste to peoples' sense of security and most importantly their given rights as citizens of this country.

[USAFChief]

 

I'm siding with the victims in just about every one of these cases of police brutality and murder.

 

But comments like this make it look like we're labeling all police the same. If we don't want them to stereotype and assume the worst about all minorities, we probably shouldn't do the same to them.

 

If anything is ever going to get fixed, we're going to need the good officers to speak up and step up. And there are plenty of good officers.

That's the thing...we all NEED an effective police force.

 

It just seems to me the majority of cops--good, hard working men and women trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances--do themselves no favors when they don't self police, or when they let the "thin blue line" stand in the way of eliminating the rotten apples.

 

Ultimately, that does those good officers a lot of harm, IMO.  In fact, it hurts all of us, because...we NEED an effective police force.

[biggentleben]

 

That's the thing...we all NEED an effective police force.

 

It just seems to me the majority of cops--good, hard working men and women trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances--do themselves no favors when they don't self police, or when they let the "thin blue line" stand in the way of eliminating the rotten apples.

 

Ultimately, that does those good officers a lot of harm, IMO.  In fact, it hurts all of us, because...we NEED an effective police force.

 

And this is where our local force has been tremendous. Lower level officers turned in a superior that was not doing his job correctly, with no repercussions in the community or within the force, a new chief came in after the previous one retired and set up further initiatives for reporting within the department, and they have had very good relationships with the local mental health and developmental disability agencies to better train officers to deal with their clients in crisis situations.

 

Now, the local state's attorney, on the other hand...

[Mr. Brooks]

This is an issue in many important public service jobs in the US and will become worse as $15/hr minimum wage (or higher) increases take place. Why is anyone going to do the training and the really, really hard work when they could do an easier job for fair pay?

 

I honestly can't think of any reason that someone would be a teacher right now considering the pay, the stress, the long hours and scapegoating (not my kid's fault). Same goes firemen, paramedics and many things that we take for granted. But I really think teachers are the most at risk because we treat them awful.

 

And to return to police officers. We are now blaming all of these officers for the actions of what I still consider the few. It is getting harder to maintain the belief that it is just a few but there are probably 100's of thousands of officers in the US and even though these cases are seemingly quite common (way too many though), the vast majority do not behave like this. I have no confidence in the police review (for shootings or use of force) process though. Zero faith in that.

It may be a few bad apples, but when the good cops defend them and refuse to disown them then they are just as bad in my mind.

[Champuckett]

Best advice I can give you as the dread settles in: Turn off the television.

 

You're only going to be fed fear, hate,and lies every moment you are watching just about anything on television.  And I'm not just talking political shows or the nightly news, also your normal weekly tv shows, movies, ESPN, you name it, it's political in some way.  You will feel a great deal better not being hammered relentlessly with information every single day by simply not turning on that little device that we all grew up with.

[Craig Arko]

 

Best advice I can give you as the dread settles in: Turn off the television.

 

You're only going to be fed fear, hate,and lies every moment you are watching just about anything on television.  And I'm not just talking political shows or the nightly news, also your normal weekly tv shows, movies, ESPN, you name it, it's political in some way.  You will feel a great deal better not being hammered relentlessly with information every single day by simply not turning on that little device that we all grew up with.

Can't speak for others, but I don't think sticking my head in the sand is a viable option, either.

[kab21]

 

It may be a few bad apples, but when the good cops defend them and refuse to disown them then they are just as bad in my mind.

Yes, that is a frustration but it is equally frustrating that some have considered all cops bad apples. As long as people on both sides continue to make generalizations like this things won't improve.

[Champuckett]

 

Can't speak for others, but I don't think sticking my head in the sand is a viable option, either.

 

They aren't mutually exclusive.  You can get information, research a topic, and dig deeper, and you can do it without turning on the television.

[Craig Arko]

They aren't mutually exclusive.  You can get information, research a topic, and dig deeper, and you can do it without turning on the television.

Thank you for the advice.

[Mike Sixel]

I admit, I'm more like champuckett on this one than some of you. While I don't ignore the world, I watch the news less and less. And, I certainly have tuned out much of politics, though not all of it, over the last decade or so. Probably because I'm a jaded, ex-politician type....

[drjim]

There are aspects of the media and reporting that have never been better than they are right now. There are podcasts, long form articles and old school reporting that are among the most intelligent things you can hear. But there is such an overwhelming amount of possibilities that it is so easy to cut off anything you don't want to hear. And there is no baseline to even criticize. I'm confident that the baseline will be found again and there will be some stabilization but it may take a while.

 

I have another hot take. I don't think we are doomed to a continual downward spiral. But we have a ways to get from here to there. The big challenge that has not been addressed is the loss of blue collar jobs, primarily to automation. Combine job losses with overall low growth (for a decade and half), the collapse of (non college town) rural America and the overall collapsing of previously stable institutions, you are going to have some instability. This instability is combined with the fact that for humanity as a whole, life has never been better.

[nicksaviking]

 

That's the thing...we all NEED an effective police force.

 

It just seems to me the majority of cops--good, hard working men and women trying to do the right thing in difficult circumstances--do themselves no favors when they don't self police, or when they let the "thin blue line" stand in the way of eliminating the rotten apples.

 

Ultimately, that does those good officers a lot of harm, IMO.  In fact, it hurts all of us, because...we NEED an effective police force.

 

If this country would ever find it's way to scale back it's continuous and world encompassing military operations, placing the men and women of our armed forces into law enforcement back home would probably alleviate a lot of problems. They are (I assume) typically better trained and much more experienced in tense situations involving groups of different ethnicities.

 

I'd bet former historically, military personnel released from service in good standing tend to make good officers of the law.

[drjim]

 

If this country would ever find it's way to scale back it's continuous and world encompassing military operations, placing the men and women of our armed forces into law enforcement back home would probably alleviate a lot of problems. They are (I assume) typically better trained and much more experienced in tense situations involving groups of different ethnicities.

 

I'd bet former historically, military personnel released from service in good standing tend to make good officers of the law.

 

It was always interesting to read the analysis of the Ferguson situation from the perspective of military. (They were not impressed). But as a general rule, it is true that military vets in good standing would make better police officers. If you are able to make it through deployments in good standing, you can handle pulling over a black man on a traffic stop and not feel overly threatened.