An Upside Down World

[Craig Arko]

And the yelling of racism about it was never so loud until the Dylann Roof incident .... He isn't your typical white southerner, and he is rightly on death row for his psycho actions.

 

Flying the flag because being butt-hurt about the union victory has been passed down to you through the generations doesn't make you a racist.  Flying the flag because you are anti-liberal doesn't make you a racist.

 

Crying racism is just a virtue signaling tool of the far left to conjure up guilt from the weak-minded and further their agenda.

Are you claiming racism does not exist?

[USMCTwin]

 

Well, it’s been maybe 4-5 generations or thereabouts, and shows little sign of dying out. I think the situation(s) in Eastern Europe and the Middle East demonstrate that the old hatreds don’t just die off.

My feeling is that there will be another Civil War, perhaps not in my lifetime but in that of some of those reading this. Within the lifetime of your kids, perhaps. There is more at stake than tax cuts here.

 

Granted I moved away so my experiences are reduced to trips 'home' at this point, but I actually do think it is dying out. When I was in high school kids wore it to school. Now you see it on an occasional truck, but it is not nearly as prevalent in my city anyways. Of course all of my evidence is almost entirely anecdotal. I think it is a mindset that will eventually just go away. I know doing nothing seems lazy/unproductive, but telling people they must be racist if they do this thing that they don't view as inherently racist just makes them go into insider/outsider mode and all communication is shut down if it wasn't already. Honestly I think we need a better leader in the Republican party or of similar mind to rise up and help.

[Mike Sixel]

 

And the yelling of racism about it was never so loud until the Dylann Roof incident .... He isn't your typical white southerner, and he is rightly on death row for his psycho actions.

 

Flying the flag because being butt-hurt about the union victory has been passed down to you through the generations doesn't make you a racist.  Flying the flag because you are anti-liberal doesn't make you a racist.

 

Crying racism is just a virtue signaling tool of the far left to conjure up guilt from the weak-minded and further their agenda.

 

good golly you have issues with people that don't agree with you....You think no one thought this flag was racist until Dylan Roof? I don't think you were paying attention before that.

 

I'm willing to listen to USMCTwin try to explain it to me, but you appear to have no desire to do that.

[Craig Arko]

https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-movement

[gunnarthor]

 

I really do believe the majority of people that fly it are not racist. In my opinion someone telling them they are racist will make them dig their heels in even further. "I will continue to fly it to prove it isn't racist." I really believe if they actually thought it made them racist they would be much more discreet about it.

 

I think it is more about southern pride and I will grant you that it is terribly misguided and hurtful.

What do you think southern pride is?

[MMMordabito]

 

Are you claiming racism does not exist?

 

Racism exists, but not to the extent that some would like me to believe.

[USMCTwin]

 

What do you think southern pride is?

 

It's not totally dissimilar to the same people that get up in arms because they feel Kaepernick disrepects our American flag. It's just proud of being where you came from. Southerners view themselves as hospitable, loyal, and nicer than people in the north. It's SEC SEC SEC (shudders as an anti-SEC person). It's Paul Finebaum's radio show. It's sweet tea. It's going 30 down a road that is 45 because I'm not going anywhere in particular. It's going hunting on Thanksgiving morning while the women are back at home cooking. It's just a different lifestyle and they are very proud of that difference whether you or I agree. For a segment of them it also includes Dixie and the confederate battle flag. I'm okay with a lot of the southern pride thing and even relate to some of it, but I just wish we could all agree some symbols are best left in the past.

[Mr. Brooks]

It's not totally dissimilar to the same people that get up in arms because they feel Kaepernick disrepects our American flag. It's just proud of being where you came from. Southerners view themselves as hospitable, loyal, and nicer than people in the north. It's SEC SEC SEC (shudders as an anti-SEC person). It's Paul Finebaum's radio show. It's sweet tea. It's going 30 down a road that is 45 because I'm not going anywhere in particular. It's going hunting on Thanksgiving morning while the women are back at home cooking. It's just a different lifestyle and they are very proud of that difference whether you or I agree. For a segment of them it also includes Dixie and the confederate battle flag. I'm okay with a lot of the southern pride thing and even relate to some of it, but I just wish we could all agree some symbols are best left in the past.

But the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent any of those things.

None of those things were reasons they attempted to secede from the Union.

 

I'm not buying that they choose that particular flag to represent those things.

[USMCTwin]

But the Confederate battle flag doesn't represent any of those things.

None of those things were reasons they attempted to secede from the Union.

 

I'm not buying that they choose that particular flag to represent those things.

If you so choose not to equate those or rather say they can’t see those things in the flag than you are correct that would be racist if it weren’t about southern pride. I do honestly believe that is a very small segment of the people who fly it though.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Racism exists, but not to the extent that some would like me to believe.

The only demographic that is conflicted about the existence of racism is white people.

 

That should tell us something.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

If you so choose not to equate those or rather say they can’t see those things in the flag than you are correct that would be racist if it weren’t about southern pride. I do honestly believe that is a very small segment of the people who fly it though.

If you look at the time and political environment from which the battle flag was revived, it's not difficult to understand why it returned to prominence.

 

And that's pretty shameful, no matter how or why someone flies it today.

[PseudoSABR]

 

If you so choose not to equate those or rather say they can’t see those things in the flag than you are correct that would be racist if it weren’t about southern pride. I do honestly believe that is a very small segment of the people who fly it though.

It's not so much about why the flag is flown (I agree it's not always because of racism) but it is that they do it in spite of such obvious (it is obvious, no excuses) racist symbolism. If someone's sense of pride willingly or willfully blindly treads on others' dignity, shame, and fear of violence, I've got no patience for such sentiment. At a certain point--which we've reached in these years of Trump in that we must face the full scope of racism, in all its subtly--in-spite-of blurs into because: apathy to racism may not be as awful as intent to be racist, but it is nonetheless awful, as it enables the latter; indeed apathy is the lifeblood of hate.

 

Just stop giving people a pass (not that you are, but genuinely the sentiment of southern pride does), and really, as we continue to invoke in this thread, hold near like-minded people accountable (which is really difficult to give affect to in our real lives).

 

(And as an aside, keep posting. I really appreciate your tone and thoughtfulness!).

[MMMordabito]

 

good golly you have issues with people that don't agree with you....You think no one thought this flag was racist until Dylan Roof? I don't think you were paying attention before that.

 

I'm willing to listen to USMCTwin try to explain it to me, but you appear to have no desire to do that.

 

That's because you and others of your leaning around here tend to post as if you are conveying absolute truth instead of opinion.  My original post regarding this was simply to point out that just because subject group A used symbol B, that doesn't mean that all who use symbol B have the same views as subject group A.  Having spent a fair amount of time around ground zero of the conflict that symbol B may be attached to for some, I feel quite strongly that the paint-by-number picture that you and others are attempting to paint has more than the two numbers.  I had to say it that way, because the typical analogical statement would probably end up in me being called a racist.  That's how over-sensitive I feel people are these days. 

 

"Just some good ol' boys, never meanin' no harm" = IMO, 95+%

 

 

[USMCTwin]

 

If you look at the time and political environment from which the battle flag was revived, it's not difficult to understand why it returned to prominence.

 

And that's pretty shameful, no matter how or why someone flies it today.

 

I totally agree and don't want to mince my words or excuse the behavior. I was just trying to say that not everyone who flies it must be racist, even if their actions are shameful.

[gunnarthor]

 

I totally agree and don't want to mince my words or excuse the behavior. I was just trying to say that not everyone who flies it must be racist, even if their actions are shameful.

I don't really think that's much of an argument. Sure, there might be some guy who is just too stupid but that's the hook we're going to hang a hat on?

 

If you see some joker with a Nazi flag you're going to rightly think he's anti-Semitic. If he says, "oh no, I'm just waiving this flag to **** with libtards because they think I'm anti-Semitic", you wouldn't change your opinion. If some jokers are happily waiving around a symbol of white supremacy, that was carried by traitors to our country to uphold ****ing slavery of a entire class of people, and has been used for over a century to intimidate people of color, you don't excuse them for digging their heels in b/c they want to upset social justice warriors. Those aren't stubborn folks who don't know their history. Those are people who are choosing to act in a racist manner. 

[USMCTwin]

 

I don't really think that's much of an argument. Sure, there might be some guy who is just too stupid but that's the hook we're going to hang a hat on?

 

If you see some joker with a Nazi flag you're going to rightly think he's anti-Semitic. If he says, "oh no, I'm just waiving this flag to **** with libtards because they think I'm anti-Semitic", you wouldn't change your opinion. If some jokers are happily waiving around a symbol of white supremacy, that was carried by traitors to our country to uphold ****ing slavery of a entire class of people, and has been used for over a century to intimidate people of color, you don't excuse them for digging their heels in b/c they want to upset social justice warriors. Those aren't stubborn folks who don't know their history. Those are people who are choosing to act in a racist manner. 

 

I understand your point, but pretty much all of Americans see the Nazi flag and think pure evil. People in the south,or at least a fairly large segment, don't actually see that when they see the confederate battle flag. It's not so much to screw with Liberals. It's like if somebody said Nascar and it's supporters were actually racist. I guarantee you the next race would be overflowing. Not as a screw you, but because they feel like you are attacking their identity. Granted again, I don't agree with them. Obviously my example is flimsy, but I am just trying to make a point. If you disagree that's fine. We can both agree it is a terrible thing to do and we wish/would like to work to make it go away.

[Craig Arko]

[Vanimal46]

BEB3AD0F-A671-430C-92C4-C81219438601.jpeg

Good people are going to continue to sit on the sidelines until we can have an open conversation, maybe learn something new, without being immediately called a racist/xenophobe/homophobe etc.

[Craig Arko]

Good people are going to continue to sit on the sidelines until we can have an open conversation, maybe learn something new, without being immediately called a racist/xenophobe/homophobe etc.

And keep on making excuses.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Good people are going to continue to sit on the sidelines until we can have an open conversation, maybe learn something new, without being immediately called a racist/xenophobe/homophobe etc.

If people are more concerned about how others label them than actually doing the right thing, those people aren't good people.

 

Other people shouldn't have to make it easy or comfortable for you or anyone to do the right thing.

[Vanimal46]

If people are more concerned about how others label them than actually doing the right thing, those people aren't good people.

 

Other people shouldn't have to make it easy or comfortable for you or anyone to do the right thing.

I know I do the right thing every day. I treat people how I want to be treated and don't label anyone by their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Results of good parenting!

[PseudoSABR]

 

I know I do the right thing every day. I treat people how I want to be treated and don't label anyone by their skin color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Results of good parenting!

Good! Then I wouldn't worry about being called racist etc.  As far as I can tell, no one has even implied such labels to you here.