An Upside Down World

[Bark's Lounge]

We live in confusing times these days.

 

People are going nuts. Leftist and Rightwing domestic terror is knocking at our front door. Exterior terror is a distant 3rd.

 

We have a celebrity reality television entity as our president, he is most probably corrupt and in violation of the law and is under a very scrutinizing investigation, politicians are being targeted for assassination at neighborhood baseball fields, the hate is taking up the air we breath. I feel like I am suffocating.

 

Today, I catch the news that Philando Castille's death was in vain. No one will pay the price for that crime, which at the very least was racial profiling, but it was murder when all is said and done in my eyes.

 

My grandparents would be disgusted if they were still alive. They were hard working blue collar folks who weathered the storms, had there ups and downs and believed in justice... they believed in America. They believed in the good of human nature.

 

Honestly, I am glad they are not around to see this (bleep) show.

 

The America they knew is dead. The new America is bleeding out and is in dire need of a blood transfusion. I don't think we will get to the hospital on time.

 

I am venting, feel free to vent in this post.

[Pardon My Dinger]

Bark, I feel ya, bud. There is escape in the Twins Baseball thread.

 

...which in itself is rather topsy turvy. I guess what I'm saying is: smoke em if you got em. That advice can be taken or left alone.

[mikecgrimes]

Even if the officer made a very very bad mistake possibly a criminal mistake it was not murder.  At most the charge should have been similar to a deadly DWI accident.  The prosecutor overcharged with no fall back for political reasons nothing more.  As for racially profiling, when looking for a black suspect there is a zero percent chance you pull over a white guy, and when looking for a white suspect there is a zero percent chance you pull over a black guy.  If we're gonna get upset that officers are pulling people over who fit a description of a suspect then what?  It was not wrong to pull him over and it was not murder.  It very well may have been a very bad mistake worthy of a conviction but the prosecutor didn't care to make that a likely outcome.  I don't know what to say other then generally speaking even the worst mistakes don't justify years to life in prison.

[biggentleben]

 

Even if the officer made a very very bad mistake possibly a criminal mistake it was not murder.  At most the charge should have been similar to a deadly DWI accident.  The prosecutor overcharged with no fall back for political reasons nothing more.  As for racially profiling, when looking for a black suspect there is a zero percent chance you pull over a white guy, and when looking for a white suspect there is a zero percent chance you pull over a black guy.  If we're gonna get upset that officers are pulling people over who fit a description of a suspect then what?  It was not wrong to pull him over and it was not murder.  It very well may have been a very bad mistake worthy of a conviction but the prosecutor didn't care to make that a likely outcome.  I don't know what to say other then generally speaking even the worst mistakes don't justify years to life in prison.

 

But losing life is justified for those mistakes - nevermind the 4 y/o who watched a life taken in front of her.

[kab21]

I find the Castile case very frustrating. I 100% back our police officers as a whole (great people) but I remain very skeptical about the officer involved shooting (or force required) investigative review. This does nothing to quell that skepticism.

 

Nor does it do anything to change the narrative of Black vs the Police. My biggest gripe with Black Lives Matters is that it essentially morphed into Black vs the Police without actually directly saying it. I think this was one blatant dropping of the ball by any powerful black leaders in the US. They (from Obama to Oprah to Magic/Lebron to community leaders) never steered the narrative towards The People vs The Review Process. Everyone can unite against injustice regardless of color. We remain divided if the narrative is Black vs The Police.

[mikecgrimes]

The problem is we are seeing the shooting as a punishment and not an incident, and because we see it as a punishment we leap to things like murder.  If we start from the point that this probably is not murder, but it is really bad and needs to be prevented as much as possibly with reasonable criminal charges to the officer in a case like this.  The trial because it was about murder did not need to determine if the shooting was justified or not it just came down to what the murder law actually is.  Clearly we mostly agree a mistake even a really bad one like this may have been or like a DWI related death is not murder.  Now I'm not going to say there is no chance this guy or other officers haven't decided if they get a borderline case they won't hesitate to shoot a black man, and that would truly be murder, but unless they've told another person those intentions it's unprovable.

[gunnarthor]

Without getting into this too much, I've been a lawyer for 15 years. Our justice system is broken. Prosecutors and Judges bend over backwards to keep the system how it is. That's why cops can kill black men just by saying the black man scared them. It happens everywhere. They didn't prosecute the cop who Tamir Rice. It's utterly broken. The only verdict that has surprised me was the Walter Scott mistrial where I figured the jury had to convict. Silly me. The only way to push back against law enforcement excess is to cut their budgets. The Courts will never stop this. I've never met a civil rights attorney or a public defender who didn't think our system is corrupt and broken.

 

And I've met many cops and I would say as a group they suck with good people being in the minority. This BS we hear about they are good people with tough jobs is usually bull****. They are usually *******s with ugly racist views. They are cowards and bullies. In law school, I worked with a retired cop doing security who bragged about lying to get guys convicted. It's such a common problem, it's got its own name - testilying.

[gunnarthor]

 

 

Even if the officer made a very very bad mistake possibly a criminal mistake it was not murder.  At most the charge should have been similar to a deadly DWI accident.  The prosecutor overcharged with no fall back for political reasons nothing more.  .

Ignoring every thing else in your post, the prosecutor didn't over charge. He was charged with second degree manslaughter and two counts of recklessly firing his weapon.  When the national review calls out a verdict, you know we have problems.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/448740/philando-castile-verdict-was-miscarriage-justice

[ashbury]

Moderator's note: Observant posters will have figured out that we grant a lot more latitude in these Sports Bar threads than in the baseball areas, but even here there are limits. Don't compound a charged topic with gratuitious profanity, even if disguised (or blanked out by the site software).

[Craig Arko]

Hey, Bark. Amazing things can still happen.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/worlds-top-religious-leaders-issue-rare-joint-appeal_us_5942c11ee4b06bb7d2719e8e

[Mike Sixel]

If a white guy, legally carry a gun, had notified an officer he had one (as required):

 

a: the cop never would have shot him

b: if he had, the right wing 2nd amendment types would be all over this. Unsurprisingly, they are not, because the victim was black.

 

Every single one of my minority friends has stories about being treated very differently by cops than I ever have been. 

[glunn]

Clearly we live in a world where there is a deplorable level of prejudice and persecution.

 

Yet if you apply the concept of SSS to history, perhaps you will feel better.

 

I grew up in the South and remember colored bathrooms and open use of the N word. I remember a young African American being taken to the police station, being beaten to death and there being no consequences.

 

How much progress we have made is debatable, but the general arc of history seems to me to be going in a positive direction. It also seems to me that such progress is earned by those who are enlightened enough to perceive injustice and brave enough to fight against it. Trump and others want to take us backwards. We must work even harder to move forward.

[Mike Sixel]

Another day, another acquittal........ What would a police officer have to do?

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Clearly we live in a world where there is a deplorable level of prejudice and persecution.

 

Yet if you apply the concept of SSS to history, perhaps you will feel better.

 

I grew up in the South and remember colored bathrooms and open use of the N word. I remember a young African American being taken to the police station, being beaten to death and there being no consequences.

 

How much progress we have made is debatable, but the general arc of history seems to me to be going in a positive direction. It also seems to me that such progress is earned by those who are enlightened enough to perceive injustice and brave enough to fight against it. Trump and others want to take us backwards. We must work even harder to move forward.

Glunn, you are a wise man and I would certainly like to hear your stories from the 60's and racism in the south someday. I am sure you have a lot to inform me with from your experiences as a kid... and I will come hollering sometime soon with that, in a private channel of course.

 

I don't think anyone can disagree that things have changed for the better since the 60's for race relations, but it is still not very good.

 

Besides that, as a society as a whole, I don't think a majority of people are equipped to deal with technology, especially on a social level. I think it has rendered a good amount of our latest generations dumb, docile and in a weird way privileged.

 

To me, these days, it seems most people hook up on dating sites, they get to review your career earning power, judge you by a picture of yourself and message you a handful of times, thus creating a picture of who they want to be with. It is lazy and super inwards IMO.

 

I remember the days when a person saw someone they were intrigued with and they would have to go into the situation cold, nervous, and let their social skills fly and see if they were good enough or sold themselves to the other person. I'm 42 and that is how I met my wife. That is how everyone did it up until roughly 15 years ago.

 

The truth doesn't matter anymore, the majority seek out what is easy, a great many people only seek the facts that fuel their beliefs. In a country that has many impoverished and uneducated people who have internet access it is a terminal disease within this country.

 

Hence "Fake News". I have a hard time believing that critical thought will win the day with anyone except the minority (not race) of this country.

[DaveW]

Cops generally are some of the more undeducated and less intelligent people in the workforce. In my life I have found the majority of them to be pretty worthless.

 

It's amazing we give people like that Carte Blanche power.

[gunnarthor]

(Moderator's note: video contains profanity)

 

And this happened

 

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/877916375209181184/video/1

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

And this happened 

 

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/877916375209181184/video/1

 

Ugh. But, hey, there is not white privilege, and most minorities don't face racism.....at least, that's what some 50% of the US thinks....according to polls.

[Squirrel]

 

Ugh. But, hey, there is not white privilege, and most minorities don't face racism.....at least, that's what some 50% of the US thinks....according to polls.

That is disheartening. Many have heard me say this before but as much as things change they stay the same. While I guess some progress is being made in terms of legalities ... and even then, does it help in the long run? Without people's minds changing, without even an openness to see life differently, laws really don't change much, imo.

[nicksaviking]

 

And this happened 

 

https://twitter.com/ACLU/status/877916375209181184/video/1

 

I'd like to hear that dirtbag argue that he acted because he was scared for his life, seeing as he had his weapon drawn and had to holster it so he could administer the beating with two hands. And a knee.

 

Seriously, why do we need all these traffic stops? We have the technology to read license plates which would be tied to the registrants address and phone number. Most citations can be issued electronically and safely with no interactions along with the digital recording from the dash cam showing the offense. Hell, the cop could even pull a guy over and call his freakin' cell phone to discuss the violation. Stay in the car!

 

Unless these uber-aggressive alpha-male types actually LIKE confrontation and exerting their authority. Surely it can't be that.

[mikecgrimes]

Because the laws for reckless driving are nowhere near severe enough.  I hope this happens to every loser who weaves in and out of traffic putting every other drivers life at risk.  Then again he's not white so we better question the officers motives.  By the way the above posting contained swearing, how hard is it to not post things that contain swearing?  It gets old.

[Craig Arko]

Because the laws for reckless driving are nowhere near severe enough.  I hope this happens to every loser who weaves in and out of traffic putting every other drivers life at risk.  Then again he's not white so we better question the officers motives.  By the way the above posting contained swearing, how hard is it to not post things that contain swearing?  It gets old.

Suggest you tell that to the officer involved.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Because the laws for reckless driving are nowhere near severe enough.  I hope this happens to every loser who weaves in and out of traffic putting every other drivers life at risk.  Then again he's not white so we better question the officers motives.  By the way the above posting contained swearing, how hard is it to not post things that contain swearing?  It gets old.

 

to be clear, you think police should beat people that don't pose a thread to them? I would prefer the courts administer justice, and it not involve physical beating. 

[mikecgrimes]

 

to be clear, you think police should beat people that don't pose a thread to them?

 

Who says he didn't pose a threat.  If you drive like your running from something and then don't have your hands on the wheel your gonna have problems.  But hey assume the worst of the officers.  I'll accept the 5% of the time I'm wrong but the hands up don't shoot crowd will continue to assume things based on no evidence whatsoever. 

[mikecgrimes]

 

Suggest you tell that to the officer involved.

 

Those aren't the rules for his job, those are the rules here.  Post an edited video or don't post it.

[biggentleben]

 

Because the laws for reckless driving are nowhere near severe enough.  I hope this happens to every loser who weaves in and out of traffic putting every other drivers life at risk.  Then again he's not white so we better question the officers motives.  By the way the above posting contained swearing, how hard is it to not post things that contain swearing?  It gets old.

 

Just about as easy as it is to post without encouraging severe beating to someone you do not know.

[biggentleben]

 

Who says he didn't pose a threat.  If you drive like your running from something and then don't have your hands on the wheel your gonna have problems.  But hey assume the worst of the officers.  I'll accept the 5% of the time I'm wrong but the hands up don't shoot crowd will continue to assume things based on no evidence whatsoever. 

 

You've lived a fairly charmed life to honestly believe this...

[Craig Arko]

Hey, Bark. Amazing things can still happen.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/worlds-top-religious-leaders-issue-rare-joint-appeal_us_5942c11ee4b06bb7d2719e8e

I was wrong. The thugs have won.

[ashbury]

By the way the above posting contained swearing, how hard is it to not post things that contain swearing?  It gets old.

I'm going to address just this aspect for the moment. The moderators do take a hard line with posts that contain profanity, including visuals. However, when the profanity is revealed only by clicking a link, it's often sufficient to simply mark the post as such. I have gone back and done this in the post you are referring to.

[DaveW]

Just one (young) mans opinion.

 

People worrying about the horrors of profanity while not showing empathy for innocent human beings getting gunned down by cops (who then never get punished) is what is wrong with the USA as a whole.

 

I have had the privilege of spending at least 5-8 days every month the last 8 months outside of the USA, and you know what I have found? This issue is literally only a USA issue, every other "first world country" doesn't have this nonsense happening, like....at all.

 

As an American I'm past the point of being upset, I'm just embarrassed. I'm sure there have been other low points as a country, but good lord, law abiding citizens are getting blown away and their murderers are going free because of the color of their skin.

 

It's infuriating.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

Cops generally are some of the more undeducated and less intelligent people in the workforce. In my life I have found the majority of them to be pretty worthless.

It's amazing we give people like that Carte Blanche power.

Honestly, who the heck would want that job who has their head on straight? Why go to college to be a police officer when you can make quadruple+ what a police officer makes doing something else.

 

The new generation of police officers is bottom of the barrel, with a few exceptions.