Zach Granite

[kab21]

 

With Granites ability to steal so many bases and those extra bases not counting in OPS, his OPS is deceptivly low. A large percentage of his singles are like getting a double... I'm not saying this well but I think you get my point....

He still has a .300 OBP. You can't steal unless you are on base but at least we can expect this to rise a little. 

[Obsvr]

 

 

 

The bigger question is the return of Park...will be come back anytime this year (needs a 40-man ad). The Twins are paying him bucks if he plays or doesn't play. Do you need to attempt to showcase him at the major league level to get anyone to eat his contract, or make you feel good about keeping him on the roster for this and two more seasons. And, yes, he probably brings more to the team as a sub at first than Vargas.

 

He's hitting .200 with 3 hr's and a 30% strike out rate...I dont think he's going anywhere.

 

 

[goulik]

He still has a .300 OBP. You can't steal unless you are on base but at least we can expect this to rise a little.

 

Right but it would be like saying he has 16 doubles this year instead of 6... maybe like a true OPS in the 700s instead of 650s.

[goulik]

Ok, so I went and did the math and if you add his 7 Rochester stolen bases to total bases and figured that into his slugging he would have a 440 slugging and a 750 OPS instead of 686

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  Stolen bases do not advance runners.

 

And I'd add that if you do this for Granite, you have to do it for Eddie as well.  Does he never swipe a bag?

[jud6312]

 

I think he'll probably be a .275/.335/.350 kind of guy. Could cut it as a fourth outfielder and occasional starter, but maybe not much more than a Jason Tyner type.

Jason Tyner, you say?

 

http://www.1500espn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/AP366270133805-408x485.jpg

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  Stolen bases do not advance runners.

 

And I'd add that if you do this for Granite, you have to do it for Eddie as well.  Does he never swipe a bag?

Eddie has never been much of a stolen base guy so the impact will be marginal.

 

But you're right that SB can't be added directly to SLG, as it's not as valuable.

 

But the point that everyone continues to gloss over regarding Granite is that he's never been good with the stick. The guy has a lower career MiLB OPS than Rosario's career MLB OPS.

 

And, again, they're just a year apart in age.

 

That doesn't mean Granite can't be a serviceable MLB guy - probably from the bench at best - but expecting a positive result by replacing Rosario (or pretty much anyone currently on the Twins 25 man, when you get right down to it) is little more than a pipe dream at this point. Granite barely hit in Chattanooga. He isn't hitting much at all in Rochester. What on earth do people expect from him against MLB pitching?

[Shaitan]

 

Isn't that true next year also? I mean, that seems like no reason to keep him down. There are other reasons, but not that, imo.

 

If they don't make any changes, yes. But I'm not concerned about next year's roster right now. 

 

Even with this season outperforming expectations, I expect significant changes next offseason as the Falvey/Levine have had time to learn what they've got to work with. The fact that this team keeps using the DH as a late inning defensive replacement says the current construction doesn't make sense.

[goulik]

 

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  Stolen bases do not advance runners.

 

And I'd add that if you do this for Granite, you have to do it for Eddie as well.  Does he never swipe a bag?

Agreed and that wasn't the point, the point was OPS omits the value of a stolen base and when the guy stole 50+ bases last year, a skill translatable but probably not to that height, there is a value there beyond just the hit tool. That is disruptive + his defense...

 

I do not advocate replacing Rosario, I like Rosario and think he will come around a bit, but Granite has a niche on the MLB club in the long term.

[Thrylos]

 

If he's up, he's the 5th OF and gets 6 AB per week, max. That doesn't help a young player develop. If you think that's his ceiling, sure.

 

Here is the thing that I don't get: 

 

Look at the standings.  The Twins are competing.  They should be in the business of wining at this point than developing players.  Who cares if Granite (or Garver - a more realistic scenario) get fewer PAs at the MLB level, if they help the MLB team to win more than others? 

 

At some point, you got to get out of the business of developing players at the AA and AAA levels and get in the business of winning.  Otherwise you are stuck as a developing organization for others.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Granite is playing the worst ball of his career: 84 wRC+, .297 wOBA, .257/.304/.352, in 113 PAs in Rochester.  At this point he will not be an improvement over Rosario with the bat.   With Palka hurt there is no OFer in Rochester worth calling up.

 

On the other hand, Wade is hitting pretty well at Chattanooga (.385 wOBA, 145 wRC+, .293/.417/.415, 206 PA) and could potentially help.  Other than that, the system is pretty dry in the upper levels of the minors, which makes me think that the Twins might want to give Nick Gordon an OF glove and have him take a few reps out there for a while as well...

OK, but what about Granite's skills as a base runner, as compared to Adrianza or Escobar?

 

I think that was the top point of the original post, and not whether Granite can do great things at the plate.

[dbminn]

Vargas should be recalled if the Twins go back to 12 pitchers.

 

Zack Granite is most likely the next Twins OF if one of the regulars gets hurt. I'm all for him coming up if he's needed. He has a lot of positive tools: defense, speed and contact. In the meantime, Granite has had only 100+ PA at AAA. Another month or two in at Rochester will probably help (yes, 25 year-olds continue to learn).

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

OK, but what about Granite's skills as a base runner, as compared to Adrianza or Escobar?

I think that was the top point of the original post, and not whether Granite can do great things at the plate.

I don't think it's whether he can do good things at the plate, it's whether he'll OPS at .500 and become a sinkhole in the lineup and such a detriment that it won't matter if he's Rickey Henderson on the basepaths and Willie Mays in the field, he'll be a very bad baseball player.

[yarnivek1972]

Here is the thing that I don't get:

 

Look at the standings. The Twins are competing. They should be in the business of wining at this point than developing players. Who cares if Granite (or Garver - a more realistic scenario) get fewer PAs at the MLB level, if they help the MLB team to win more than others?

 

At some point, you got to get out of the business of developing players at the AA and AAA levels and get in the business of winning. Otherwise you are stuck as a developing organization for others.

Exactly. Development for what is what I would add. He's older than Buxton and Kepler and not much younger than Rosario.

[USAFChief]

 

Here is the thing that I don't get: 

 

Look at the standings.  The Twins are competing.  They should be in the business of wining at this point than developing players.  Who cares if Granite (or Garver - a more realistic scenario) get fewer PAs at the MLB level, if they help the MLB team to win more than others? 

 

At some point, you got to get out of the business of developing players at the AA and AAA levels and get in the business of winning.  Otherwise you are stuck as a developing organization for others.

I agree with this.

 

However, in the case of Granite, I'm not sure what he does that would contribute to wins for the Twins.

 

I think Vargas adds more.

[kab21]

 

I agree with this.

 

However, in the case of Granite, I'm not sure what he does that would contribute to wins for the Twins.

 

I think Vargas adds more.

Yes, we need a hitter more than a base stealer, defensive replacement. That would be nice to have in addition though.

It would be great to have both but I can't see the Twins not having two utility infielders. At least Escobar is remotely competent with the bat though.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I don't think it's whether he can do good things at the plate, it's whether he'll OPS at .500 and become a sinkhole in the lineup and such a detriment that it won't matter if he's Rickey Henderson on the basepaths and Willie Mays in the field, he'll be a very bad baseball player.

Again, we are not talking about Granite being a starter. If he does ever start some games, maybe he can lay down a mean bunt.

 

 

only half joking

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

If one of the main three outfielders misses time, then I think Granite is called up, Grossman becomes the everyday starter, and Granite slips into the fourth outfield spot nicely. Hard to believe but the Twins outfield is in very, very good shape. The big blemish is that Buxton still hasn't found his hitting groove.

[amjgt]

I think Granite is hitting about .900 since this thread started. LOL

 

I don't think a call up (baring injury) is happening soon, but I'm curious about his defense.

 

He plays CF at AAA and let's say he moved to a corner (Buxton stays in Center) in the majors. My assumption is that his defense would be better than Kepler and Rosario?

 

a) is that true?

b*) how much better?

 

If we could grab from anywhere in the organization and ONLY cared about OF defense, who would we pick?

 

Buxton, Granite, ????

[stringer bell]

Watching a couple spring games only, Granit was OK, but not awe-inspiring. Good speed should equal good range, but I don't know how I'd categorize his arm. I don't think it is a given that he's as good or better than Kepler and Rosario, but he would be much better than Grossman.

[Mike Sixel]

Here you go:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-fringe-five-baseballs-most-compelling-fringe-prospects-92/

 

[Steve Lein]

 

I think Granite is hitting about .900 since this thread started. LOL

 

I don't think a call up (baring injury) is happening soon, but I'm curious about his defense.

 

He plays CF at AAA and let's say he moved to a corner (Buxton stays in Center) in the majors. My assumption is that his defense would be better than Kepler and Rosario?

 

a) is that true?

b*) how much better?

 

If we could grab from anywhere in the organization and ONLY cared about OF defense, who would we pick?

 

Buxton, Granite, ????

 

I think he's better than Rosario. Kepler is probably a wash.

 

But Granite absolutely is on fire. 14 game hitting streak that has brought him from hitting .237 on the year to leading the International League in batting average...

[bird]

Coming off an oblique injury, adjusting to AAA, and 113 PA's? Looking at Granite's numbers and making much of a judgment on him is misguided. Give him (a lot) more time. And recognize the trend with respect to his performance.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Coming off an oblique injury, adjusting to AAA, and 113 PA's? Looking at Granite's numbers and making much of a judgment on him is misguided. Give him (a lot) more time. And recognize the trend with respect to his performance.

Granite's K and BB rates are pretty consistent, and probably worth judging at this point.  I suspect his ISO will come down.  Will be interesting to see what his BABIP does.

[nicksaviking]

Granite is nice depth to have, but neither Rosario or Kepler are creating an offensive black hole and the OF defense has been good. I don't think this is a situation you push during the season unless there is an injury.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Granite is nice depth to have, but neither Rosario or Kepler are creating an offensive black hole and the OF defense has been good. I don't think this is a situation you push during the season unless there is an injury.

 

I'm not sure we agree on Rosario, but we'll see.....

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm not sure we agree on Rosario, but we'll see.....

 

I'd certainly look to deal Rosario at some point, but his splits since May have been pretty decent. Better than Kepler actually.

 

I wouldn't expect Granite to come up and be an improvement at this point at least.

[kab21]

 

I'm not sure we agree on Rosario, but we'll see.....

Rosario has a .739 OPS this year. He doesn't get there like the SABR fan likes but he has been an effective hitter. His defense hasn't rated well though but it likely isn't this bad nor is Grossman's this good (similar UZR).

 

I certainly don't have any complaints about Rosario at this point. It would be if the Twins had another Kepler to promote and put Rosario into a 4th OF'er role but Granite is unlikely to be more effective than Rosario.

[Mr. Brooks]

Rosario has a .739 OPS this year. He doesn't get there like the SABR fan likes but he has been an effective hitter. His defense hasn't rated well though but it likely isn't this bad nor is Grossman's this good (similar UZR).

 

I certainly don't have any complaints about Rosario at this point. It would be if the Twins had another Kepler to promote and put Rosario into a 4th OF'er role but Granite is unlikely to be more effective than Rosario.

That isn't very good for a corner OF though.

He's on pace to put up 0.5 bWAR this year.

I agree that Granite likely isn't the answer, but I don't agree that Rosario is an effective hitter.

[Respy]

I would presume that the FO is all-in on Buxton, Kepler, and Rosario.  And with a glut of DH players and needing too many pitchers on the staff, there's no room for Granite.  Give him a couple more hundred at bats in AAA and he'll be a good September call-up.  If anyone between Buxton/Kepler/Rosario/Grossman gets injured, Granite should be up right away.  If Granite keeps hitting .500 for the next month, they need to consider bringing him up for Vargas or a pitcher.  Hopefully he'll stick on the 25-man roster next spring.