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Winds of Winter

gunnarthor

By gunnarthor
in The Sports Bar

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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I thought that the fight with the Night's King would take several episodes. That we'd see a huge battle outside Winterfell that the bad guys dominate and then the heroes would be forced to defend a castle that's literally called "winter fell". We'd have an episode where Jon and/or Dany does something extremely reckless, maybe retrieving an artifact from beyond the wall (Horn of Winter?) that would help the good guys. And then a third episode where the bad guys finally storm the walls while Jon/Dany race home to save the day. After the Others are done, they'd deal with the Golden Company and Cercei fairly easily. But, nope. 

 

I'm very with you on this.  Upthread I thought they should've devoted 10 episodes just to the period from when Dany gets to Winterfell and the defense of it.  Think if we'd had 5 episodes of intrigue and build like the first two of this season?

 

They prepare a defense (a good one), they play politics even as doom sets in on them, we spend more time with Tormund and Beric, see more of the NK preparing his forces, and snippets of Cersei preparing for war.  Then, as you say, three episodes of battle.  First the battle in the field to whittle their forces.  Yes, the Dothraki get decimated and so do many of the ground troops, but the effort is valiant until they pull back behind the trenches.  This time the fire holds up and they use the dragons to push back the dead while they regroup.  As the episode goes on the dead start breaking through, getting to the point that they scale the walls and the NK shows up.  Last episode of the battle is the castle fight and the death of the NK.  Then they use the traditional last episode as what we saw last night: celebrations, relationships, more politics.

 

Instead we got all of that in 3.5 episodes.  It just doesn't work or do justice to the build-up to this point.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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Copied from my Facebook post this morning....

 

The Ringer is killing it with their coverage of this overly rushed season of GoT. Just as they have all along. This season, and to an extent last, took a great show and made it lesser than it was. Still good, just not great anymore.

 

It's making me hungry for the books again, frankly. Which after the last, I didn't think could happen. The show went from cutting out the chafe to burning the wheat.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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After some processing.....

 

If Arya had gone thru that a few years ago, we would be praising the honesty of the horror of war.

 

If they had spent two years of everyone hating Dany in the West, that would have helped. Maybe more betrayals?

 

Jaime was true to his obsession, I guess.

 

Jon is just stupid. I hope he doesn't win.

 

Is the foreshadowing of Arya killing Dany too obvious?

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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Now I see why they killed the other dragon last week. It wasn't to make it a fair fight... It was so Jon couldn't stop Dany from burning the city to the ground.

 

Too bad they're throwing away several main character developments at the end. 2+ seasons of Jaime redeeming himself is for nothing. 8+ seasons of Dany freeing and liberating slaves is thrown away because she's angry over the death of Missandei.

 

Like everything the last 2 seasons, it's rushed and convenient plot developments by the show writers.

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Vanimal46

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Is the foreshadowing of Arya killing Dany too obvious?

I think it's going to be a battle of the Targaryens at the end, and Jon ends up killing her. Who knows, maybe they both kill each other.

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TheLeviathan All-Star

TheLeviathan

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Now I see why they killed the other dragon last week. It wasn't to make it a fair fight... It was so Jon couldn't stop Dany from burning the city to the ground.

Too bad they're throwing away several main character developments at the end. 2+ seasons of Jaime redeeming himself is for nothing. 8+ seasons of Dany freeing and liberating slaves is thrown away because she's angry over the death of Missandei.

Like everything the last 2 seasons, it's rushed and convenient plot developments by the show writers.

 

Personally, I think this is exactly Jaime's character.  Try as he might to be a better man, he can't escape his sister.  

 

The turn by Grey Worm and Dany is more troubling.  This needed much more time to simmer.  There are going to be a lot of people that love Dany as a character (hell, the actress even seems scorned) that will not feel this is earned.  I can't say they're wrong.

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gunnarthor All-Star

gunnarthor

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Again, really good visuals and action scenes and weak writing overall. Didn't really make sense except to show us that Dany is crazy and the next mad queen. Don't really see how she can be redeemed in two episodes (or is it three?). 

 

I assume Cercei and Jamie died together but maybe they were just buried a bit and Dany gets to feed Cercei to a dragon next episode. That seems to be an internet rumor. 

 

I liked Varys and Tyrion's banter - I always have. Doesn't make sense to get rid of him except that he'll die in the books so he had to die here. Jon Snow's discomfort at making out with his aunt is funny. Arya and the Hound was better/more emotional than I thought it would be. Qyburn's death was a bit too quick. I thought it would be drawn out a bit more so he'd realize his monster was killing him.

 

Overall, I don't like where the show is deciding to go but the action scenes are really carrying the show. 

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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Personally, I think this is exactly Jaime's character. Try as he might to be a better man, he can't escape his sister.

 

The turn by Grey Worm and Dany is more troubling. This needed much more time to simmer. There are going to be a lot of people that love Dany as a character (hell, the actress even seems scorned) that will not feel this is earned. I can't say they're wrong.

It's hard to betray family, so I can see a reason for Jaime to go back to King's Landing for Cersei. It just seems so sudden to go from an intimate knighting of Brienne to saying **** it I'm going back to Cersei in less than 2 episodes.

 

I agree, Dany and Grey Worm turning into cold blooded killers of innocent people is more troubling. Sure, there was some foreshadowing that Dany was going to become Queen of Ashes, but it still felt sudden.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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It's hard to betray family, so I can see a reason for Jaime to go back to King's Landing for Cersei. It just seems so sudden to go from an intimate knighting of Brienne to saying **** it I'm going back to Cersei in less than 2 episodes.

 

I agree, Dany and Grey Worm turning into cold blooded killers of innocent people is more troubling. Sure, there was some foreshadowing that Dany was going to become Queen of Ashes, but it still felt sudden.

Way too sudden. Like I said, two, three, episodes of westerners hating them all would have helped.

 

Now Dany should fly back East, and rule there, leaving the westerners behind to pick up the pieces.

 

"I never liked it here, or the people."

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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Also, WTF does Jon want anymore? He doesn't want Dany, doesn't want the iron throne...

To just be a guy in the North, with no responsibly. But, like many good men, he can't help himself from trying to make the world better. Doesn't mean he's actually good at it.....

 

I think it is interesting, that this person is just so wrong all the time, that just doesn't happen in fiction often. Not sure it is good, but interesting.

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biggentleben GCL Twins

biggentleben

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One rumor I read (can't remember where now) was that Bran was going  to keep Arya safe, and a few are now wondering if he sent the horse for her. The other rumor is that Bran had a vision of a cave where dragons were living and being tended to, and they will be revealed to Jon/Arya/Sansa, with Jon agreeing to serve in the role that Eddard Stark once served, willingly giving the throne to Sansa after the 3 use the new-found dragons to defeat Dany.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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If I was GRRM....

 

I'd have Dany admit to someone that she never cared about the Dothraki, they are savages that trade slaves. She never cared about the slaves she freed, if she had, she would have stayed in the East to ensure it didn't return.

 

What she cared about was ruling Westeros..... All the easterners she brought with her were a means to the end, ruling Westeros.

 

Then we watch her callously use them over a few months, while occasionally killing Westerosi when they don't love her.

 

It isn't a psychological break, it's a long play.....

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Vanimal46 MVP

Vanimal46

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I think Dany's betrayl is more intimate than that. Jon will have to kill her. It's the only way this can still be saved as bittersweet.

 

The question is who rules after that.

I agree. Dany won't let any other Stark get near her except him.

 

My guess is Sansa becomes Queen of the 7 kingdoms. Jon will probably go back to the wall or be king of the North.

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Vanimal46

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One rumor I read (can't remember where now) was that Bran was going to keep Arya safe, and a few are now wondering if he sent the horse for her. The other rumor is that Bran had a vision of a cave where dragons were living and being tended to, and they will be revealed to Jon/Arya/Sansa, with Jon agreeing to serve in the role that Eddard Stark once served, willingly giving the throne to Sansa after the 3 use the new-found dragons to defeat Dany.

Hmm it's possible Bran sent the horse with his powers. I also read a theory that the horse was sent by Eddard Stark as a sign to get the hell out of King's Landing.

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Mike Sixel Cooperstown

Mike Sixel

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It is too bad, in some ways. It really could have come down to just women leaders at this point, with Jon being the one to die somehow........

 

Bad Cersei vs Bad Dany vs Sansa and the Sand Snakes......but no. Couldn't happen that way.....

 

I really hope Jon and Dany die killing each other somehow.

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biggentleben GCL Twins

biggentleben

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I think Dany's betrayl is more intimate than that.  Jon will have to kill her.  It's the only way this can still be saved as bittersweet.

 

The question is who rules after that.

 

The rumor didn't say who of the 3 ended up delivering the decisive blow, but they could certainly write that in - the 3 dragons battle her one, who has battle experience as an advantage to their 3. John could deliver the final sword through Dany after her dragon is defeated and she falls to the earth.

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