Winds of Winter

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think the ending probably wrapped it up nicely. Not a big fan the way the season went. Sounds like the ending is what GRM had in mind, but at the same time, I think HBO would have been better suited to having 2 full length seasons to allow for a bit more character progression.

 

They didn't do a good job fleshing out Danny's flip.. it was kind of like Anakin's switch to the dark side.... just poorly done.

 

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

IMG_20190520_210307.jpg

Too bad nearly all of them are dead... pretty sure that disqualifies them.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

My preferred ending would have had the dragon spit fire on Jon after Jon kills Dany.

 

Jon is immune to fire because he is Targaren. The dragon looks baffled then eats Jon.

 

The dragon then starts attacking everyone until Arya jumps on to the dragon's head and kills it with Needle.

 

Dany's soldiers declare Arya queen.

 

Arya goes back to her room and takes off her face. Underneath is the faceless man.

 

The end.

 

He's not immune though. He burned his hand at Castle Black trying to kill a Wight. He didn't have the blood of the dragon... not all Targaryans did either.

[Vanimal46]

As I've had a chance to sleep on it a bit, I appreciate the ending. It is certainly Martin's as it has Tolkien written all over it.

 

Jon and Dany were his Frodo and their stories ended much like Frodo's would have depending upon his choice with the ring.

 

My only regret is that the pacing robbed us of having this happen more authentically. Had that happened I'd say it was one of the greatest TV show finishes of all time. But the pacing knocks it far from that post for me. My imagination can help fill it in, but that doesn't make up for the mistakes.

They had an opportunity with more time to make Dany an iconic villain in the same vein as Walter White... It's too bad with the limited runway they couldn't let that idea grow and breathe.

[PseudoSABR]

To me, the didn't need necessarily more time to develop Dany but better writing.  In the final episode she is talking crazy, from that big speech, to alone with Jon, when she says she knows what good is because she knows what good is.  She didn't need to be violent, but they needed to show that she was losing grip on reality, and what kind of world she actually desired; that could have been feathered in throughout the season, without any additional episodes.

[Mike Sixel]

To me, the didn't need necessarily more time to develop Dany but better writing. In the final episode she is talking crazy, from that big speech, to alone with Jon, when she says she knows what good is because she knows what good is. She didn't need to be violent, but they needed to show that she was losing grip on reality, and what kind of world she actually desired; that could have been feathered in throughout the season, without any additional episodes.

Correct.

[Doomtints]

 

Fans are pissed.
With 77,000 votes so far, the finale has an imdb rating of 4.8.
Prior to season 8, the lowest rating of any episode was 8.5.

I was pretty disappointed with most of the last season. Something changed starting with season 7, and continued to get worse. I don't know if it was getting further and further past the source material, or if it was rushed, or if writers were changed, or if people just got burned out.

 

I'm surprised you still trust social media.

[TheLeviathan]

I think more time was needed.  We got used to a certain pace with GOT, I think part of what made it hard for people was that it was a jarring change.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

To me, the didn't need necessarily more time to develop Dany but better writing.  In the final episode she is talking crazy, from that big speech, to alone with Jon, when she says she knows what good is because she knows what good is.  She didn't need to be violent, but they needed to show that she was losing grip on reality, and what kind of world she actually desired; that could have been feathered in throughout the season, without any additional episodes.

Possibly, but more time to breathe would have helped the audience transition.

 

For example, there was so little visual/dialogue cues of just how far the Jorah/Missandei deaths had pushed her to the edge but after all is said and done, it was obvious the writers intended those deaths to be the catalysts for Dany's transition.

 

That's writing.

 

On the other hand, spending more time earlier in the season (a longer season) showing how Dany was capable of the ultimate atrocities she committed (since the writers can't go back and rewrite previous seasons) was also necessary. Her earlier acts across the sea somewhat implied she was capable of such things but they were driven through a pursuit to help others, not the pursuit of helping herself. There's a moral rift between those events that needed to be explained and transitioned in more detail.

 

That's pacing and time.

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm surprised you still trust social media.

I've never used social media, unless Twins Daily counts.

I'm just pointing out how pissed people are. And Imdb ratings are incredibly stable, from episode to episode, you never see outliers like this unless it's for a reason.

 

They clearly rushed it. I don't even see how that's debatable, given that not once, but twice in season 8, a rogue paper cup or plastic bottle made it passed the editing room.

 

I do think that people are overreacting, but I think that speaks to how beloved this show was, and the crazy high standard they set through the first 6+ seasons.

[PseudoSABR]

My point was not that it wasn't rushed, rather the writing in the time they did have also failed to convey the change in Dany.  Of course more time would have helped, but I think the writing is the main culprit. 

[TheLeviathan]

I think I'd agree the writing didn't help, but I'm not sure how you take a character like Dany and go from hero of Winterfell to mega-villain in two hours.  Shakespeare ain't gonna write his way through that.

 

(And that's to say nothing about how hard it is to also tell the story of the reactions of those around her.  The Varys/Tyrion doubts were ridiculously rushed as a result.  Jon/Dany's love and the conflict there.  GreyWorm's dark turn.  Etc.)

[Vanimal46]

They did Varys a disservice for sure. He survived generations of bad Kings and queens priding himself on secrecy. Then at the end he's singing like a canary that Dany is bad news?

[Vanimal46]

10+ years from now when future kids/grandchildren stumble on GoT and they ask "Why is season 7 & 8 so short?" All we can say is the writers were too lazy/stubborn to write more episodes.

[Mike Sixel]

The Ringer still killing it with their articles....

 

Is Bran evil or incompetent?

[PseudoSABR]

[Mike Sixel]

Finally read The Ringer's ranking of all the episodes.....now I want to watch the whole thing again (and again skip the torture and rape scenes, stupid stuff).

[Vanimal46]

I don't know if I'll ever get around to watching it again... It's such a time commitment and there's so many other shows to watch.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I don't know if I'll ever get around to watching it again... It's such a time commitment and there's so many other shows to watch.

 

I bet I can find time, especially since my wife probably doesn't want to watch again, and most other shows I want to see, she wants to see. So, when she's not around.....

[TheLeviathan]

The section about the strain on production is interesting I think.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

The section about the strain on production is interesting I think.

It raises some really valid points we don't want to think about as fans. We just experienced what are essentially six mid-range blockbuster films, done at about 1/5th the cost of a typical mid-range blockbuster film, put together in the time allotted for one mid-range blockbuster film to be produced.

 

That's a big ask.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Ooh, this bit really struck a nerve:

"Cinematographer Fabian Wagner defended the darkness of that battle after the episode, claiming that the fault lay with those who “don’t know how to tune their TVs properly”

 

As both a web developer and an artist who makes money from displaying art online, this is the height of both arrogance and ignorance.

 

When the viewing device is beyond your control, you try to control for viewer "ignorance", meaning that you design, plot, and color for the broadest audience possible. You don't blame the audience, you reset your artistic goals to work within an acceptable range of audience experiences.

 

That statement sounds EXACTLY like the **** I have had to deal with when I work with print artists who don't even try to understand how modern audiences experience images and video.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It raises some really valid points we don't want to think about as fans. We just experienced what are essentially six mid-range blockbuster films, done at about 1/5th the cost of a typical mid-range blockbuster film, put together in the time allotted for one mid-range blockbuster film to be produced.

 

That's a big ask.

 

It is.  Game of Thrones set it's own bar so high that it may have been unattainable.  

 

Also, I did tune my freaking TV and couldn't find any combination that didn't make it pixelated, dark, and blurry.  So screw that guy.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It is.  Game of Thrones set it's own bar so high that it may have been unattainable.  

 

Also, I did tune my freaking TV and couldn't find any combination that didn't make it pixelated, dark, and blurry.  So screw that guy.

As you know, I'm a *bit* of a tech guy. I have a 4k HDR TV and, yes, I tuned it for color, saturation, black levels, etc. As a control measure, I also watched on an iPad Pro, one of the finest and most true LED screens produced today.

 

The episode still looked like crap.

 

I suspect HBO GO's stream tech is a bit at fault there but, again, that's why you don't try to control for optimum output, you try to control for user experience.