How do we fix this so called bullpen?

[DaveW]

This isn't a pile on session, but it's pretty clear that this bullpen is cooked.

We now have multiple guys with 8.00+ ERA's, and outside of Kintzler, Rogers and Duffey, I don't feel OK with any of the rest of them in any situation.

Two games in a row they have cost the Twins a game. How are they going to fix this? How would you?

I would suggest:

Aggressive, aggressive, aggressive promotions from AA

Aggressive trades....starting now!

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think they need to start a minor league carousel sooner than later in my opinion.  I'd probably start with guys on the 40 man (Randy Rosario, Chargois if he's close to getting healthy, etc.) but I'd have no problems with a DFA at some point to start working in guys like Bard and Hildenberger to at least give them a shot... one guy from the minors to see if he sticks... one guy...  that's not an unreasonable request.  If he sticks, grab a second.

 

 

[John Kelsey]

I'd promote Busenitz, Hldenberger, and Melotakis to start. Possibly even Curtiss or Rosario. 

[drivlikejehu]

 

I'd promote Busenitz, Hldenberger, and Melotakis to start. Possibly even Curtiss or Rosario. 

 

Not saying I'd literally do it all at once, but there is room for all 5.

[DaveW]

 

I think they need to start a minor league carousel sooner than later in my opinion.  I'd probably start with guys on the 40 man (Randy Rosario, Chargois if he's close to getting healthy, etc.) but I'd have no problems with a DFA at some point to start working in guys like Bard and Hildenberger to at least give them a shot... one guy from the minors to see if he sticks... one guy...  that's not an unreasonable request.  If he sticks, grab a second.

Creating room on the 40 man roster shouldn't be a concern or an issue IMO plenty of guys that can be let go.

[drjim]

The fate was sealed in the offseason, confirmed when the prospects got hurt.

[Thrylos]

1. DFA Breslow and Belisle

2. Option Pressly

3. Promote Melotakis, Bard and Turley

4. Promote the manager to Special Assistant to the GM

5. Get Doug Mientkiewicz up as an interim manager

6. Promote the pitching coach to Special Assistant to Pitching Coordinator (or just fire him.)

7. Get Eddie Guardado as an interim pitching coach

As a short term solution.

And then hit the phones for trades

 

[Rosterman]

The experiment to pick someone off the slush pile and hopefully flip them for anything won't be happening. The guys who wanted a chance get it, in the most limited of ways, and you move on...contracts be damned.

 

If your pitchers are going to blow games, better the ones for the future vs. the ones who never will be here at all.

 

Save your best for the best on the staff (right now Santana and Berrios). You are pitching for the job and the opportunity.

 

We can shuffle ALL the minor league free agents back-and-forth, but please don'.

 

Or maybe, do, if you are STILL going to do a shakeup of coaching and direction of this organization.

[jud6312]

I'd start with DFAs for Rucinski, Breslow and Belisle - replace them with Hildenberger, Busenitz and whoever else on the 40-man.

 

Bring up both of them and Melotakis to fill out the 25-man.

 

If you want to option Pressley and bring up pretty much anyone else to take his spot, I'd be OK with that, too.

 

Beyond that, I'd start looking for an actual closer - either Chargois, Curtiss or someone outside of the organization. Kintlzer should be a 7th or 8th inning guy and nothing more.

 

 

 

[Danchat]

I would call up Busenitz and Hildenberger, while DFA'ing Belisle and Rucinski. Also send Pressly to AAA, maybe for Boshers. I don't think the front office will call up any relievers from AA, that's my hunch. I wouldn't make any trades unless we're giving up non-prospects. I'm not convinced the Twins are ready to push for a playoff run, so don't make any overreactions.

[DaveW]

 

1. DFA Breslow and Belisle

2. Option Pressly

3. Promote Melotakis, Bard and Turley

4. Promote the manager to Special Assistant to the GM

5. Get Doug Mientkiewicz up as an interim manager

6. Promote the pitching coach to Special Assistant to Pitching Coordinator (or just fire him.)

7. Get Eddie Guardado as an interim pitching coach

As a short term solution.

And then hit the phones for trades

I'm not sure its a pitching coach issue, and they won't fire Molitor mid season (or in first place...though I would be on board) but I think the rest of your points make a lot of sense.

[DaveW]

 

I would call up Busenitz and Hildenberger, while DFA'ing Belisle and Rucinski. Also send Pressly to AAA, maybe for Boshers. I don't think the front office will call up any relievers from AA, that's my hunch. I wouldn't make any trades unless we're giving up non-prospects. I'm not convinced the Twins are ready to push for a playoff run, so don't make any overreactions.

Im not saying give up good prospects for bullpen help. But you can easily get guys who will be "OK" for PTBNL types or low end prospects (not in top 25)

[DocBauer]

Barely beat me to it Dave!

 

First, I think we need a tiny bit of perspective. Despite this being a horrific day in the annals of Twins history, TODAY is one game. The sky is not falling and the season is not over. In fact, over the past several games, and for most of the season, the pen has been pretty solid, if treading on thin ice.

 

Second, to be real, part of the problem is injury. Chargois, for whatever reason(s) had a disappointing ST, and has thus far been hurt and missed the season to this point. Burdi is done. Jay and Reed have also, liked Chargois, been hurt and out of action. These are not insignificant factors, and hopefully, all will be healthy soon and play some part later in the season. (With the obvious exclusion of Burdi).

 

So what do we do now? Well, while it would be easy to do after today, I'm not going to blast the FO for Wheeler and Rucinski. They had their reasons, and it's frankly too easy and knee jerk to do so.

 

This team really needs Pressly to get it together but he's not. I believe he has an option left. And unfair or not after throwing quite a few pitches Sunday, he's looked lost. He needs to go down and get straightened out. Belisle has, frankly, been a disappointment. His calling card was control and consistency and we've seen neither. Breslow has been OK, has experience and savvy, but not much else.

 

Despite such a fun and good season thus far, I have maintained this is still a season of moving the rebuild along with 2018 and beyond real contention time.

 

I send down Pressly and let Belisle and Breslow go. Good guys, solid careers, thanks, but it's time to continue and further the rebuild. I'm a little torn about the RH options. Busentiz has looked good in AAA, but Hilgenberger has posted back to back outstanding season's and has been solid for Rochester thus far. He also offers a very different look. So I bring him up. The other RHRP is between Busentiz and Curtiss straight from AA. I'm not sure I know the answer, but I pick one and give him a shot. Hey...we're talking auditions here for this exciting young club finishing their re-build so you can continue up and down trips until you find the right combination.

 

I am equally torn about Melotakis vs Rosario from the left side. Both are doing well at AA. Both have good stuff and potential. I'd lean to Melotakis due to age and more AA experience...but...see above in regard to the RH options.

 

Pick THREE and move on. Let them ride the shuttle, if necessary, for the rest of the season. For the most part, the player roster is set for the next few years, with a couple nice guys getting close. And the rotation has a couple nice youngsters in Berrios and Mejia in place, with a couple nice guys getting close and FA options next off season. But it is TIME to audition the young RP!

 

And guess what? They might not only shine...(some would argue they couldn't do worse)...but a month from now, or so, you may have Chargois, Reed and Jay all ready for their shot!

[John Kelsey]

So far we have Boshers up for Rucinski, that should solve it.

[Thrylos]

 

I'm not sure its a pitching coach issue, and they won't fire Molitor mid season (or in first place...though I would be on board) but I think the rest of your points make a lot of sense.

 

Here is why it is a pitching coach, as well as a Molitor issue (from another thread.)

 

And who is talking about firing Molitor.  He should get promoted, like Deron Johnson did

[drjim]

Here is why it is a pitching coach, as well as a Molitor issue (from another thread.)

 

And who is talking about firing Molitor. He should get promoted, like Deron Johnson did

You're confusing front office issue with a manager/pitching coach issue.

[RaoulDuke]

CL     -  Vacant

SU1  -   Vacant

SU2  -   Vacant

MR   -   Kinzler

MR   -   Duffey

MR   -   Vacant

LR    -   Vacant

 

Time to dig through the minor league guys.  Hildenberger/ Busenitz tomorrow, Melo to AAA.  How fast could Jay be up?

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

why is everyone so fired up to get rid of Breslow? He's actually looked ok until today

 

Before today: 5% HR/FB, 91.4% LOB%, .214 BABIP, 5.5 K-BB%, 3.89 FIP, 5.05 xFIP

Disaster ready to happen.  And today, just the fuse got lit;  better go before he totally blows up

[Thrylos]

 

 

First shoe dropped. Rucinski gone, Boshers up. I just hope there are more shoes. 

 

That's more like dropping a shoe and replacing it with a flip flop.

[DaveW]

CL - Vacant

SU1 - Vacant

SU2 - Vacant

MR - Kinzler

MR - Duffey

MR - Vacant

LR - Vacant

 

Time to dig through the minor league guys. Hildenberger/ Busenitz tomorrow, Melo to AAA. How fast could Jay be up?

I don't mind Kintzler at closer. He has been good enough so far. I'd much rather they fix the MRP instead of overpaying for a "proven" closer.

[h2oface]

And to think Greg Holland could have been had. No trade. Just a better offer, or a sooner offer. That kind of leadership, apparently, is not in the Falvey/Levine book. Take a risk. Very disappointing. 

 

But who knew, you might retort? Colorado didn't know either, but they made the move anyway. A great move. Kintzler was soooooo lucky last year, and still is. This will not go away. The main main main thing the newbies HAD to address, was bullpen. They choose Belisle. Lame. So lame.

[h2oface]

 

1. DFA Breslow and Belisle

2. Option Pressly

3. Promote Melotakis, Bard and Turley

4. Promote the manager to Special Assistant to the GM

5. Get Doug Mientkiewicz up as an interim manager

6. Promote the pitching coach to Special Assistant to Pitching Coordinator (or just fire him.)

7. Get Eddie Guardado as an interim pitching coach

As a short term solution.

And then hit the phones for trades

 

The only thing I don't like is #7. I always wanted Mientkiewicz to replace Gardenhire. But Eddie? Always lucky and over over over rated. NOT GUARDADO. Breslow has been OK in my book. Older, but OK. And he is smart.

 

[RaoulDuke]

 

I don't mind Kintzler at closer. He has been good enough so far. I'd much rather they fix the MRP instead of overpaying for a "proven" closer.

 

Ya he is probably there through the end of the year, I certainly wouldn't trade for a closer.  He is a decent middle reliever in my book though a 7th inning guy at best. 

[h2oface]

 

........ The other RHRP is between Busentiz and Curtiss straight from AA. I'm not sure I know the answer, but I pick one and give him a shot. Hey...we're talking auditions here for this exciting young club finishing their re-build so you can continue up and down trips until you find the right combination.

........And guess what? They might not only shine...(some would argue they couldn't do worse)...but a month from now, or so, you may have Chargois, Reed and Jay all ready for their shot!

 

 

Time to see what Curtis has. Now.

[old nurse]

The impossible dream is to have  7 perfect relievers . Not going to happen.  As a team they have had 6 blown saves all year.  That two of them happened in the last two days is inconsequential.  The team's  has lost 8 games all year (Mea culpa if fangraphs is more than two days behind). Compared to the rest of the league, they are doing very well.

Rucinski has been the extra person call up. His performance shows why he is not on the MLB roster all of the time. He would likely not have been on the roster today except for yesterday's game.  Pressly was serviceable the last few years. The bullpen coach that someone thinks should be the pitching coach has not figured out what is not working and what was. Belisle has let only one inherited runner score. 3 bad games out of 2. Breslow has has one bad game, today's. The issue is not Breslow or Belisle unless when they were signed they were thought of as eight inning relievers. That is the issue. The cost of an eight inning reliever is not cheap, nor is avoidable.  Any of the touted relief prospects for one would be a god idea.

 

[Thrylos]

 

The only thing I don't like is #7. I always wanted Mientkiewicz to replace Gardenhire. But Eddie? Always lucky and over over over rated. NOT GUARDADO. Breslow has been OK in my book. Older, but OK. And he is smart.

 

I'd rather have Frankie sweet music as a pitching coach, but he is with another team right now and cannot happen mid-season.  Thus the interim.

[DocBauer]

1. DFA Breslow and Belisle

2. Option Pressly

3. Promote Melotakis, Bard and Turley

4. Promote the manager to Special Assistant to the GM

5. Get Doug Mientkiewicz up as an interim manager

6. Promote the pitching coach to Special Assistant to Pitching Coordinator (or just fire him.)

7. Get Eddie Guardado as an interim pitching coach

As a short term solution.

And then hit the phones for trades

I really, really want to "like" your post but I'm in a sort of "half like" frame of mind.

 

Absolutely agree on Breslow, Belisle and Pressly.

 

Can't agree on Bard over Hilgenberger or Curtiss. (Or both?). Not sure about Turley. Maybe Buentiz?

 

Molitor will not be fired at this point. Not sure he's entirely the problem. Actually like some of the things and his new staff have done. LOVE Mientkiewicz but I'm not so sure Mauer isn't the best guy in the system.

 

Also not sure Allen is the problem. Still have to have guys who can throw and have some kind of stuff. Not saying you are wrong, just not sure he's to blame.

[h2oface]

 

Ya he is probably there through the end of the year, I certainly wouldn't trade for a closer.  He is a decent middle reliever in my book though a 7th inning guy at best. 

 

Kintzler is fine with a 3 run lead in the 7th. Maybe even a closer game. But his is not, and never will be, a closer. The fools gold has been spent. Time to get a closer. Or create a closer. Kintzler is not the guy.

[DocBauer]

I don't mind Kintzler at closer. He has been good enough so far. I'd much rather they fix the MRP instead of overpaying for a "proven" closer.

Absolutely.

 

Kintzler has exceeded all expectations dating back to last season's. The games I've watched, with some of his new grips and deliveries, I'm not so sure he hasn't improved even. We can debate forever about the value of a closer and saves in baseball...and maybe he'd be better in set up or middle relief, but he is not the problem with the pen.

[h2oface]

 

The impossible dream is to have  7 perfect relievers . Not going to happen.  As a team they have had 6 blown saves all year.  That two of them happened in the last two days is inconsequential.  The team's  has lost 8 games all year (Mea culpa if fangraphs is more than two days behind). Compared to the rest of the league, they are doing very well.

Rucinski has been the extra person call up. His performance shows why he is not on the MLB roster all of the time. He would likely not have been on the roster today except for yesterday's game.  Pressly was serviceable the last few years. The bullpen coach that someone thinks should be the pitching coach has not figured out what is not working and what was. Belisle has let only one inherited runner score. 3 bad games out of 2. Breslow has has one bad game, today's. The issue is not Breslow or Belisle unless when they were signed they were thought of as eight inning relievers. That is the issue. The cost of an eight inning reliever is not cheap, nor is avoidable.  Any of the touted relief prospects for one would be a god idea.

 

 

It can get a lot closer to happening! KC did a pretty good job of it - Certainly the last three to almost win two consecutive world series'.... The game is changing. The last 3 innings will championships now. To shorten the game with the bullpen is key. 

 

Do we just ignore the rest of Belisle's record this year? An 8.66  guy is hardly needed at anytime at all.