Matt Harvey

[gunnarthor]

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/heyman-harvey-file-grievance-mets-suspension/

 

Mets suspended their star for 3 games. He claimed a migraine and didn't come to the park when he wasn't scheduled to pitch but showed up for his start the next day and was notified he was suspended.  Harvey is filing an grievance against the Mets.

 

Harvey is a free agent after next season and was a pretty great pitcher for a few years but hasn't pitched all that well last season or this season.  Seems like bridges are being burned. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Well this franchise has suddenly imploded.

[Vanimal46]

This is certainly one example where TJ surgery harmed a person more than help. He's been a shell of his former self since he had the surgery. 

[Thrylos]

I'd love it if the Twins try to swing a trade for Matt Harvey, ASAP...   Will be their second best starter.  Still throwing 94-95 and a high 80s slider and prime candidate for a change of scenery. 

[gunnarthor]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:17 PM, Thrylos said:

I'd love it if the Twins try to swing a trade for Matt Harvey, ASAP...   Will be their second best starter.  Still throwing 94-95 and a high 80s slider and prime candidate for a change of scenery. 

I agree with the change of scenery but he had the same surgery that Hughes did and his numbers haven't looked good so far.  He only has one season left on his contract.  He's famous but, really, he sorta sucks right now.  I don't think the Mets want to give him away but I don't think teams want to pay high prices for him right now.  

[ashbury]

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:17 PM, Thrylos said:

I'd love it if the Twins try to swing a trade for Matt Harvey, ASAP...   Will be their second best starter.  Still throwing 94-95 and a high 80s slider and prime candidate for a change of scenery. 

I can't imagine the Mets letting him go cheaply. Do you view him as better than a reclamation project at this point? There's a big chance you end up with nothing for whatever you give away to get him.

[nicksaviking]

He'd have to be cheap for me to be interested. All his numbers are in a nose dive and most concerning to me his strikeout rate has been plummeting; he's already in the NL.

 

I'd be interested but not for any kind of prospect that would make me cringe. I'd expect discounts due to production, being a rental and possibly a clubhouse cancer (possibly he's not, but I'd still demand the discount).

 

If the Mets don't cave in at the reduced offer let another more foolish team over-pay for his name recognition.

[ashbury]

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:37 PM, nicksaviking said:

I'd be interested but not for any kind of prospect that would make me cringe.

That's the dilemma. Even with the bad blood, the Mets probably say "we'll do our own reclamation project in that case" unless someone overpays.

 

If an independent arbitrator put together what he felt to be a fair swap, both teams probably say "no".

[Thrylos]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:28 PM, ashburyjohn said:

I can't imagine the Mets letting him go cheaply. Do you view him as better than a reclamation project at this point? There's a big chance you end up with nothing for whatever you give away to get him.

 

He is more than a reclamation project

 

He would be better than what the Twins will haul out there.  His numbers are driven by a ridiculous 21.9 % HR/FB rate that will regress.  His velocity (unlike Hughes') is there after the surgery.   I think that his problems are mental at this point.

Not sure what the Twins have to give up, since he will be a free agent next season and the Mets will not sign him.  I'd start the conversation with Gibson, another player who can use a change of scenery and take it from there...

 

And the Mets are pretty desperate for SPs right now.  They are about to trot out Tommy Milone...

[Loosey]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:49 PM, Thrylos said:

He is more than a reclamation project

 

He would be better than what the Twins will haul out there.  His numbers are driven by a ridiculous 21.9 % HR/FB rate that will regress.  His velocity (unlike Hughes') is there after the surgery.   I think that his problems are mental at this point.

Not sure what the Twins have to give up, since he will be a free agent next season and the Mets will not sign him.  I'd start the conversation with Gibson, another player who can use a change of scenery and take it from there...

I second this.  I say Gibson is the focal point.  Then probably add in another minor leaguer that has upside, but not to the level of a Gonsalves, but maybe more than Stewart.  Do they have a pitcher that fits that level of talent and upside in the minors?

[Vanimal46]

Here's a Deadspin article that goes into a little more detail about the hawt rumors and dilemmas he's put the Mets through. 

To steal a line from Pat Ruesse, "Young Harvey has some growing up to do" 

My favorite line from this article: "Watching the Mets and Harvey struggle to get along is like watching two friends in a stale, bitter relationship tough it out only because their lease isn’t up for another two years. All parties—fans especially included—are just waiting for it to end."

[Thrylos]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:58 PM, Loosey said:

I second this.  I say Gibson is the focal point.  Then probably add in another minor leaguer that has upside, but not to the level of a Gonsalves, but maybe more than Stewart.  Do they have a pitcher that fits that level of talent and upside in the minors?

 

quite a few: Mejia, Jorge, Ynoa etc

[drjim]

Harvey's k rate has also dropped to just above 5, worse than Phil Hughes. And he doesn't have the low walk rate to compensate.

 

He's probably been unlucky on his hr rate, but he also has a low babip allowed. He's probably just not all that recovered from TJ and TOS surgeries. Don't think he makes it through the year healthy.

 

I'd absolutely consider a flyer for next year though.

[Mike Sixel]

If you could get him cheap, take a flyer, sure.

 

just:

 

a: gotta be cheap

b: they need to NOT count on him. Assume ANYTHING from him is gravy. Build the team that way.

[Loosey]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 4:06 PM, Thrylos said:

quite a few: Mejia, Jorge, Ynoa etc

If that were the market price for him, I would do it.  Gibson + one of those guys.  It seems light based on his first few years in the league, but he really hasn't been that great recently.

[gunnarthor]

Over the last two years, Gibson has a 75 ERA+ in 173ip.  Harvey has a 83 ERA+ in 127ip.  Both have been worth roughly 0 WAR.  Gibson is cheaper and has one more year of control.  Neither is really young anymore. One is 28, the other 29.  Obviously, Harvey was by far the better pitcher once upon a time but he hasn't been the last few years.  Their strike out rates the last two years are pretty close too - 6.8 v. 6.2.  I'd certainly trade Gibson for Harvey but I sure wouldn't kick in 6 years of Mejia for 1.5 seasons of Harvey.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 4:50 PM, gunnarthor said:

Over the last two years, Gibson has a 75 ERA+ in 173ip.  Harvey has a 83 ERA+ in 127ip.  Both have been worth roughly 0 WAR.  Gibson is cheaper and has one more year of control.  Neither is really young anymore. One is 28, the other 29.  Obviously, Harvey was by far the better pitcher once upon a time but he hasn't been the last few years.  Their strike out rates the last two years are pretty close too - 6.8 v. 6.2.  I'd certainly trade Gibson for Harvey but I sure wouldn't kick in 6 years of Mejia for 1.5 seasons of Harvey.

 

Agreed. No way. People have a hard time getting over the fact players age, get hurt, whatever....they aren't the same player they remember.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Harvey is definitely off his peak, but we're still dealing with some small samples here.  He was doing pretty well through 3-4 starts this year -- it's primarily the last 2 starts that have inflated his ERA and BB rate, and lowered his K rate.

 

Last year he was off his peak too, but his FIP was still solid.

 

I'm not a PitchFX guy, so maybe there are more troubling signs there?  I'd buy that he's not likely to be an ace again anytime soon, but I could see a bounceback to effectiveness happening pretty quickly.

[Bark's Lounge]

With the loss of Syndergaard for a handful of months, I don't see the Met's trading Harvey no matter if they have a contentious relationship with him. Theoretically the Met's are a playoff contender.

[gunnarthor]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:37 PM, Bark's Lounge said:

With the loss of Syndergaard for a handful of months, I don't see the Met's trading Harvey no matter if they have a contentious relationship with him. Theoretically the Met's are a playoff contender.

They need help.  Washington is running away with the NL East and the wild cards are probably coming from the west and/or central. They'd probably like to get Ervin Santana from us but that's a whole different trade.  Harvey is still probably their best realistic bet right now.

[Blake]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:37 PM, Bark's Lounge said:

With the loss of Syndergaard for a handful of months, I don't see the Met's trading Harvey no matter if they have a contentious relationship with him. Theoretically the Met's are a playoff contender.

We need a "rats" button.

[TheLeviathan]

I'd definitely pick up the phone and kick the ol' tires.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:37 PM, Bark's Lounge said:

With the loss of Syndergaard for a handful of months, I don't see the Met's trading Harvey no matter if they have a contentious relationship with him. Theoretically the Met's are a playoff contender.

 

Are they though? I don't know.....

 

I just wish the Twins had dealt for Conforto last year, when the Mets refused to play him.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:48 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Are they though? I don't know.....

 

I just wish the Twins had dealt for Conforto last year, when the Mets refused to play him.

The odds are against them, that's for sure, but it is early May. As you know weird stuff that can't really be explained happens in this game. Harvey in Twins uniform would certainly be intriguing, but I am not giving up a lot for him... probably something useful though.

[Deduno Abides]

A rebuilding team that is focusing on building a great clubhouse culture doesn't trade for Matt Harvey.

[Bark's Lounge]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:45 PM, gunnarthor said:

They need help.  Washington is running away with the NL East and the wild cards are probably coming from the west and/or central. They'd probably like to get Ervin Santana from us but that's a whole different trade.  Harvey is still probably their best realistic bet right now.

Your probably right, but it is only May -  The Met's have seemed to play well when it matters the last few seasons. I am curious what the Met's have in their system to make an Erv trade work. He would definitely help them out right now.

[Mike Sixel]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:59 PM, Deduno Abides said:

A rebuilding team that is focusing on building a great clubhouse culture doesn't trade for Matt Harvey.

 

that might be true, no idea. Was there ever anything about this before this week?

[Bark's Lounge]

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:59 PM, Deduno Abides said:

A rebuilding team that is focusing on building a great clubhouse culture doesn't trade for Matt Harvey.

I don't know about this. Most teams in MLB somehow F a player over in some kind of fashion and it really comes down to two things - "mend fences" or "scenery change". It can work vice versa as well minus the scenery change.

 

Everyone knows that Harvey is an unknown quantity right now. The peripherals don't look that great but it is such a SSS. I'm not convinced the Met's want to or have thought about moving him.

 

Edit: I should throw an example out there. Stephen Strasbourg shut himself down a few years ago in September because of his pitch count and coming off TJ surgery. It came at a bad time for the Nationals and there was a lot of controversial chitter chatter about.

 

Strasbourg then signed a fairly cheap extension with the Nats, although it is a lot of money, still less than he would have received on the open market.

 

They worked things out and if Harvey improves, he and the Met's will probably work things out as well. Probably not in an extension, unless Harvey goes gang buster.

[bighat]

Sounds like Harvey got drunk playing golf and skipped the game.  He's had other problems similar to this in the past also. 

 

Sure, as a Twins fan we could use a guy like Harvey.  From the Mets perspective, who are you gonna want from the Twins?  Folks, the Mets aren't going to take our garbage just because Harvey has an attitude problem.  Harvey for Gibson and Tonkin?   Harvey for Santiago?  Harvey for Kintzler and Grossman?  Sorry, doesn't work like that.  They can get legit prospects from other organizations who can afford to part with good prospects.  The Twins are not one of those teams, alas. 

 

 

[Deduno Abides]

You can disagree about whether to go for Harvey and think it's worthwhile, despite his difficult agent, bad attitude and poor performance, in the hope that he could turn around, but it is extremely unlikely Falvey would. Why put any energy into his performance and his attitude, and why risk his attitude, when you're still establishing Sano, Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco, Vargas and others on your team?