Ah yeah, I think we were all giddy bc Nolasco was gone and Ryan was gone, hope was in the air!

 

 

My post below:

 

 

To me it looks like a trade involving three change of scenery type pitchers, and Santiago.

 

I don't think it's as great of a trade as people say, but it's a pretty solid trade overall. Santiago at least can be a innings eater 4/5 for us, and he will be pitching for his first real "big" deal in free agency. Ideally he pitches 200 IP and a 3.40 era and the twins can either trade him, or offer him arb and get a draft pick (or one more year)

 

Meyer could reach his potential, but I doubt he would have done that here. Nolasco could salvage his career with a nice 1.3 seasons in LA as well.

 

Smart but not great trade IMO. I give it a B

Edited by DaveW, 01 August 2016 - 08:06 PM.

 

Ah yeah, I think we were all giddy bc Nolasco was gone and Ryan was gone, hope was in the air!


My post below:


To me it looks like a trade involving three change of scenery type pitchers, and Santiago.

I don't think it's as great of a trade as people say, but it's a pretty solid trade overall. Santiago at least can be a innings eater 4/5 for us, and he will be pitching for his first real "big" deal in free agency. Ideally he pitches 200 IP and a 3.40 era and the twins can either trade him, or offer him arb and get a draft pick (or one more year)

Meyer could reach his potential, but I doubt he would have done that here. Nolasco could salvage his career with a nice 1.3 seasons in LA as well.

Smart but not great trade IMO. I give it a B
Edited by DaveW, 01 August 2016 - 08:06 PM.

I wasn't trying to call you out or anything, as your response was more tepid than most... just pointing out that I wasn't exactly thrilled with the trade (in your defense, neither were you).

 

As I said in the following post:

 

"Time may tell us the smart move was to DFA Nolasco and call it a day."

And, more humorously, this was my response to someone saying it could be a problem that Meyer needed to be rostered in 2017:

 

"Though given the Twins penchant for slipshod bullpens in April, May, June, and sometimes even July, that's not a deal breaker."

 

I CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE

Good to see the old Alex Meyer we all know, love, and remember is still out there.

 

I'd still take his 6 IP 4 BB 1 H 0 ER over what the Twins toss out 60% of the time

The question is just how repeatable that outcome is going forward. I remain quite skeptical of a pitcher that has a 5+ BB/9 rate in 9 out of 12 games this season. Those walks will catch up to him.

I think Meyer was optioned to the minors today.

I think Meyer was optioned to the minors today.

This is correct, Meyer was indeed optioned. Although the Angels have an off day and the all star break coming up, so they don't need a 5th starter for a little while.

I've been thinking of an idea for a couple years now - I think Meyer could be a solid reliever. Not sure if he'd ever be able to stop giving up walks, but facing 3-5 batters while throwing 97+ mph. I just don't think he's going to cut it as an MLB starter.

He'd still be the third best starting pitcher by a mile in this organization. So what does that say for this front office?

 

He'd still be the third best starting pitcher by a mile in this organization. So what does that say for this front office?

 

 

Pray tell. It tells me almost nothing, frankly.

 

Pray tell. It tells me almost nothing, frankly.

 

In fairness, this FO added no SP to the worst rotation in baseball, thru trade or FA. And, in the bullpen, they added two guys over 35 that have been bad. I think it's ok to question this FO so far. You may not agree.

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Mike Sixel

 

It's always perfectly legitimate to question the FO decisions. After all, where would this message board be if we can't question what the FO does?

 

The other question is the Angels FO. They are keeping Jesse Chavez and Ricky Nolasco in the rotation and sent Meyer down. They are either morons or maybe, just maybe, they see the same problems the Twins saw and don't think Meyer is a MLB caliber starter at this time. As someone who lives in LA, I wouldn't cry too much about not having Alex Meyer anymore. 

 

Or, it's the ASB, and Meyer just pitched, and they wanted a hitter or RP up right before and after the break?

 

That's what I think the Twins did with Granite.....they sent down a guy that just pitched, and called up a player that could be useful. Let's see what happens after the ASB to see if this is a send down, or a roster use move.

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Mike Sixel

 

In fairness, this FO added no SP to the worst rotation in baseball, thru trade or FA. And, in the bullpen, they added two guys over 35 that have been bad. I think it's ok to question this FO so far. You may not agree.

Yes, that's fine. But Myer is a separate issue, as this FO (Falvey and Levine) weren't the ones who traded him. I understand the lament about the starting pitching and what wasn't and was addressed over this past off season, but Myer was not part of any decisions our current FO made.

Yes, that's fine. But Myer is a separate issue, as this FO (Falvey and Levine) weren't the ones who traded him. I understand the lament about the starting pitching and what wasn't and was addressed over this past off season, but Myer was not part of any decisions our current FO made.

I took it to mean that even though he isn't good, he would still be a good option here, due to lack of activity. Maybe I read it wrong.

I took it to mean that even though he isn't good, he would still be a good option here, due to lack of activity. Maybe I read it wrong.

Yeah ... I wonder if he had stayed, where he'd be, in our rotation, bp, not sure. And I also wonder, would Falvey and Levine have traded him? I rather doubt it, but who knows. It just seems odd to me to be talking about Myer in the same conversation with our current FO, and what they have or haven't done to address our needs. I get that there are issues we felt were left unaddressed this off-season, but I don't really see the correlation to Myer in that conversation at all since he was gone before they were even on the scene. I just think it's a different conversation completely, maybe with an ounce of overlap, but a truly different conversation from discussing where Alex Myer is now.

50/50 that Busenitz provides more value than Meyer. A big, massive wash overall.

 

50/50 that Busenitz provides more value than Meyer. A big, massive wash overall.

Well, a half-season into it, and Meyer has a 0.7 bWAR / 0.9 fWAR advantage.  Fangraphs projects another 0.5-0.7 WAR yet this season.

Well, a half-season into it, and Meyer has a 0.7 bWAR / 0.9 fWAR advantage. Fangraphs projects another 0.5-0.7 WAR yet this season.

Busenitz has barely pitched, so it woulf be a very poor reflection on Meyer if he didn't have a minimal advantage.

 

Busenitz has barely pitched, so it woulf be a very poor reflection on Meyer if he didn't have a minimal advantage.

Given that Busenitz is already a fringe 40 man reliever (was Rule 5 eligible last winter but not chosen), I don't think you can use lack of MLB activity as much of an excuse.

Busenitz has barely pitched, so it woulf be a very poor reflection on Meyer if he didn't have a minimal advantage.

Yes, he's barely pitched, despite our worst bullpen in the league. That is not a defense, it's an indictment.

Yes, he's barely pitched, despite our worst bullpen in the league. That is not a defense, it's an indictment.

Defense of what?

 

The minimal value Busenitz has provided is the point of the comparison.

 

In fairness, this FO added no SP to the worst rotation in baseball, thru trade or FA. And, in the bullpen, they added two guys over 35 that have been bad. I think it's ok to question this FO so far. You may not agree.

 

This front office had nothing to do with either acquiring or trading the guy. So pray tell, what does Alex Meyer tell you about the new FO?

 

And I get your complaint about the new FO and think it's a reasonable criticism, but here's why I wasn't that concerned coming into the season. Like you, I had lower expectations than what we're seeing as the trend so far in 2017. Going in, I thought, if more than half of their decisions went well and more than half of the core position players had improved seasons (especially Sano, Buxton, Kepler, Polanco, Rosario, and Vargas), they might be a .500 club. No thought in my mind whatsoever of competing for a postseason berth.

 

Rotation: Santana, one of either Gibson or Hughes holding down a spot, one of May or Duffey holding down a spot, one of Santiago or Mejia holding down a spot, and one of Berrios or Gonsaves/Romero coming through. So, go 6 for 10, maybe a .500 club. Certainly not predictably "the worst rotation in baseball", whatever THAT is. We've gone 3 for 10 with these guys, and I'm fully aware that many TD'ers saw this coming, or at the very least wanted more than the best that Santana, Gibson, May, Santiago, and Berrios, or the alternates I just mentioned, had to offer. I was willing to live with hoping for a little better luck from this group. I didn't mind them holding on to tradable assets like Dozier and Gordon. I was okay with them not forking out for a FA starter who probably wasn't really going to move the needle a whole lot.

 

RP: Kintzler, one of Rogers or Belisle, one of Pressly or Duffey, one of Chargois or Burdi, one of Wimmers or Haley, one of Reed or Hildenberger...I wanted one more option better than Belisle via trade or FA and was unhappy about that.

 

So yeah, I agree that it's fair to question and criticize the new FO for their off-season decisions. But because we're now in contention, the criticism sharpens, and I'm not sure that people recall the perceived state of things at the time those non-decisions and decisions were made.

Edited July 13, 20179 yr by birdwatcher

Defense of what?

 

The minimal value Busenitz has provided is the point of the comparison.

You used playing time to defend why Busenitz has less wAR than Meyer.

My point was his lack of being able to crack the worst bullpen in baseball is an indictment of his talent.

No way the Angels would trade Meyer back for Busenitz. No one would. Terrible deal by the Twins.

You used playing time to defend why Busenitz has less wAR than Meyer.

My point was his lack of being able to crack the worst bullpen in baseball is an indictment of his talent.

Busenitz is a fringe mlb reliever, I wouldn't say otherwise.

No way the Angels would trade Meyer back for Busenitz. No one would. Terrible deal by the Twins.

Hicks for Murphy was a terrible deal. This is basically a nothing deal.

 

Hicks for Murphy was a terrible deal. This is basically a nothing deal.

 

 

Aw, heck, Hicks for Murphy was nothin'. Now, Capps for Ramos...

Busenitz is a fringe mlb reliever, I wouldn't say otherwise.

But you think it's 50-50 that this fringe MLB reliever will accumulate more value than 12 (and counting) starts of league average ERA/FIP in a contending season?

But you think it's 50-50 that this fringe MLB reliever will accumulate more value than 12 (and counting) starts of league average ERA/FIP in a contending season?

I didn't limit it to this season though I probably should have phrased it differently.

 

Meyer has shown that the Twins won't miss him and they evaluated him correctly.

 

He'd still be the third best starting pitcher by a mile in this organization. So what does that say for this front office?

Virtually nothing, because they didn't trade him.