Red Sox don't like Machado

[gunnarthor]

Machado is another one of my favorite non-Twins.  He's really, really good, of course.  But he's also somewhat dirty.  

 

http://m.mlb.com/bos/video/v1309699983/bosbal-pedroia-exits-game-after-collision-at-second

 

Honestly, I think Machedo just went in hard and accidentally spiked Pedroia but others may see it differently.  The Orioles won that game but the next day the Red Sox tried to hit him and actually aimed at his head, which is a serious no-no.  I was somewhat surprised that Machado didn't charge the mound but Barnes should get a fairly big penalty.  If he had aimed at his body, this probably goes away but head-hunting is different, so we'll see.  Machado doubled on the next pitch.

 

http://m.mlb.com/bos/video/v1315785283/bosbal-barnes-ejected-after-throwing-at-machado/?team_id=111

 

(Levi, let this one go).

[big dog]

If I were an Orioles fan I would argue that Machado's foot hit the bag and was deflected up into Pedroia's leg.  I might even believe it.  In any case, no excuse for an intentional pitch up and in that high.

 

Oh wait, I know- it slipped.  That must be it.

 

To me, if Pedroia's got a beef, Machado's standing right there.  Have a productive chat.  Then get back to baseball.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Machado tried to catch Pedroia the moment he began to fall and stood over him non-aggressively. That pretty clearly tells me he didn't mean the spike the guy, his foot was just high. You can see him raise his foot as he approaches the bag so as not to catch his lead foot on second and possibly injure himself.

 

Throwing at a guy's head over something that was obviously accidental is bull****.

[youngtwinsfan]

From Pedrioa's comments after the game I don't think he had an beef or issue with how that play turned out. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Machado tried to catch Pedroia the moment he began to fall and stood over him non-aggressively. That pretty clearly tells me he didn't mean the spike the guy, his foot was just high. You can see him raise his foot as he approaches the bag so as not to catch his lead foot on second and possibly injure himself.

 

Throwing at a guy's head over something that was obviously accidental is bull****.

 

Pedroia also told Manny, on the field as it was happening, that he didn't agree with it.

 

Stupid.  Just stupid.  Baseball should be ashamed of this kind of nonsense.

[gunnarthor]

 

Machado tried to catch Pedroia the moment he began to fall and stood over him non-aggressively. That pretty clearly tells me he didn't mean the spike the guy, his foot was just high. You can see him raise his foot as he approaches the bag so as not to catch his lead foot on second and possibly injure himself.

 

Throwing at a guy's head over something that was obviously accidental is bull****.

That's how I saw it, too.  But Jason Turbow of the baseball codes noted that the Red Sox players were watching the replay in the locker room after the game.  They clearly thought it was dirty.  And maybe it was. He did nail Pedroia in his injured knee and maybe he just faked the sincerity?  Who knows.  I love this ****.

[Vanimal46]

The best part of this story is that Machado crushed a double on the very next pitch after they went after his head. Other than a moon shot home run, that's the best way to respond to that non-sense. 

Still hoping for baseball to get away from intentionally beaning players at some point in my lifetime... 

[drjim]

I actually think the occasional bean ball to the ass will keep the bad blood from festering and more dangerous plays from happening on the bases. But man, headhunting should be 20 games. That's messing with careers.

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

Machado tried to catch Pedroia the moment he began to fall and stood over him non-aggressively. That pretty clearly tells me he didn't mean the spike the guy, his foot was just high. You can see him raise his foot as he approaches the bag so as not to catch his lead foot on second and possibly injure himself.

 

Throwing at a guy's head over something that was obviously accidental is bull****.

 

I agree with the assessment (and the absolute trash of throwing at someone's head), I'm just getting annoyed with sports these days trying to glean intent from plays. Whether someone meant to do something or not should be absolutely irrelevant. You cleat someone in the leg, even if accidental, the runner at first should be out (or some other rationale infraction type penalty).

 

Another example: You make contact with the catcher at home, and that contact was not the fault of the catcher, some relevant ruling should apply. 

 

I realize life and sports is not black and white, but trying to legislate intent is a bad, bad idea (you start to look like the NHL's or NFL's suspension policies).

[Mike Sixel]

Right, we have no idea the intent. But, it seems odd a supreme athlete would somehow spike someone in the knee by accident....

 

And no, I don't like trying to injure someone at all, either the slide or the pitch. You are messing with their LIFE, not their career.

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

Right, we have no idea the intent. But, it seems odd a supreme athlete would somehow spike someone in the knee by accident....

 

Yep, and this is the problem. Three guys in a room two days later have to try and decide whether Brad Marchand hit another guy in the nuts on accident.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

But, it seems odd a supreme athlete would somehow spike someone in the knee by accident....

If you watch the video in slow motion, it's easy to see how it happens. Machado's foot either grazes the bag and deflects up or Machado realizes his lead foot is going to spike the bag and overreacts, lifting his foot in the air.

 

It's not as if NFL players don't fall down in the backfield, NBA players trip, or MLB players miss easy pop flies on occasion.

[Steve Lein]

 

If you watch the video in slow motion, it's easy to see how it happens. Machado's foot either grazes the bag and deflects up or Machado realizes his lead foot is going to spike the bag and overreacts, lifting his foot in the air.

 

It's not as if NFL players don't fall down in the backfield, NBA players trip, or MLB players miss easy pop flies on occasion.

 

That's my assessment as well.

 

I made that slide into second base enough in my life to know if you're in to deep before you start the slide the last thing you want to do is punch your spikes right into the bag so they grab it. That's how you get a hyperflexed knee injury.

 

It's also quite common for your lead foot to simply slide across the bag because your foot didn't quite hit the bag right. That's how a friend of mine ended up with a titanium rod in his leg from a similar slide.

 

Guy who made that slide basically spent the entire 45 minutes as we waited on the field for the ambulance to come dry heaving knowing what he had just done and seeing the aftermath. My buddy still turned the double-play though!

[LimestoneBaggy]

 

That's my assessment as well.

 

I made that slide into second base enough in my life to know if you're in to deep before you start the slide the last thing you want to do is punch your spikes right into the bag so they grab it. That's how you get a hyperflexed knee injury.

 

It's also quite common for your lead foot to simply slide across the bag because your foot didn't quite hit the bag right. That's how a friend of mine ended up with a titanium rod in his leg from a similar slide.

 

Guy who made that slide basically spent the entire 45 minutes as we waited on the field for the ambulance to come dry heaving knowing what he had just done and seeing the aftermath. My buddy still turned the double-play though!

 

I pretty much agree with both you and Brock, I just think that's the entire problem. Machedo has a history, and I'm sure that players (without the advantage or perhaps the willingness to review the slow motion) just default to, he tried to spike him. If they'd just institute a policy for contact (regardless of intent), it hopefully would stop retaliation plays (or maybe curb them).

[KirbyDome89]

 

Right, we have no idea the intent. But, it seems odd a supreme athlete would somehow spike someone in the knee by accident....

 

And no, I don't like trying to injure someone at all, either the slide or the pitch. You are messing with their LIFE, not their career.

I think it has elements of both intent and accident.

 

I don't think he was purposely hunting for Pedroia's bum knee, but Machado certainly went in hard in an effort to break up the double play. He brought his leg up to make sure he went over the bag in an effort to get into Pedroia. In essence he knew he wasn't beating the ball to 2B so he went in trying to blow the play up. MLB has started to scale back the leeway baserunners have in doing that but those plays are still going to happen. That said, I don't believe for one second that Machado was only trying to protect himself with the slide. 

 

This is all pure speculation though, and a good example of why I can't stand the notion of judging intent. 

 

Also, I couldn't agree more, if you're throwing at somebody's head feel free to gtfo. 

[Steve Lein]

 

I pretty much agree with both you and Brock, I just think that's the entire problem. Machedo has a history, and I'm sure that players (without the advantage or perhaps the willingness to review the slow motion) just default to, he tried to spike him. If they'd just institute a policy for contact (regardless of intent), it hopefully would stop retaliation plays (or maybe curb them).

 

Yeah, I'm with you.

 

One other observation I have from playing 2B most of my life, is Pedroia put himself in a bad position. Now, the throw can contribute to this too and you can't see where he set up before the slide is already there in the video, but he has his foot to make the force out on the outfield-facing side of the base, exactly where any slide into second base is going in a linear straight line. 

 

On that type of ground ball, you know there isn't going to be a double-play to turn, and he should have had it on the third-base facing side of the bag.

[TheLeviathan]

Part of the issue here is Pedroia and Machado seemed to have an understanding.  This pitcher decided to be a hero for his team.

 

At the very least, shouldn't the guy that got supposedly spiked have a say in whether the other guy gets beaned or head hunted?  

 

Too much vigilantiasm in all this.  And it comes with all the same problems a vigilante does.  (Unfair, overly harsh, above the law thinking etc.)

[gunnarthor]

Well, we don't know if Pedroia wasn't in on it.  He probably was ok with Machado getting plunked.  I'd be very surprised if he didn't know that was going to happen.  A pitcher earlier in the game threw three very inside pitches on Machado with pretty solid intent to hit him.  Pedroia could have spoken up then. So I'm not sure his denials on the field are worth very much.  Most players make those sort of comments.

 

My guess is that he was perfectly fine with Machado getting plunked but after seeing the ball nearly decapitate him he probably was worried about further retaliation and had to do what he did.

[TheLeviathan]

I can't grab it right now, but there is video of Pedroia reassuring Machado from the dugout as Machado is reeling from almost being hit.

 

He said "You know it wasn't me" and then sent a text and had a quote about how he didn't agree with what happened.  I'll try and snag it later, but yahoo had it all embedded in the story.

[TheLeviathan]

Here it is.

[Vanimal46]

 

Here it is.

 

Wow, it certainly looks like the Red Sox pitcher wanted to play hero and plunk Machado no matter what. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Wow, it certainly looks like the Red Sox pitcher wanted to play hero and plunk Machado no matter what. 

 

Right and that's sort of the real problem.  If we could guarantee that every issue was handled with a plunk in the butt and everyone moves on....then so be it.

 

But that's not how it works.  It's a battle of escalation and, typically, latin players are more frequently and disproportionately the brunt of that escalation.  

 

It's unfortunate.

[drjim]

 

Right and that's sort of the real problem.  If we could guarantee that every issue was handled with a plunk in the butt and everyone moves on....then so be it.

 

But that's not how it works.  It's a battle of escalation and, typically, latin players are more frequently and disproportionately the brunt of that escalation.  

 

It's unfortunate.

 

The first point is definitely true and usually the way it ends, and not much is heard about it.

 

The second part might be true, but Machado is from Florida.

 

I think overall baseball has down a pretty good job of cracking down on this, or perhaps the players just aren't as into it as they used to be. There are fewer and fewer incidents each year, which is good, but I'm not certain it can ever 100% be taken out. These are humans, playing competitively at a high level over a long grind of a season. Even if something is an accident like the Machado slide there can be lingering bad blood and it seems to work if there is some sort of an outlet. I generally say hit him in the ass the next time up and move on. Headhunting 2 days later is another story.

[TheLeviathan]

 

The first point is definitely true and usually the way it ends, and not much is heard about it.

 

The second part might be true, but Machado is from Florida.

 

And certainly the second part is hard to prove conclusively, especially since we are dealing with intent.  I'll have to see if I can find the article that tried to show it was disproportionate.  

 

My problem is that too often it escalates beyond a shot in the rear end.  And once you do that and you're throwing punches or pitches at people's heads you are jeopardizing lives and careers over some really silly stuff.

 

I don't think you can separate the two, escalation is a natural component to this kind of "justice".

[drjim]

And certainly the second part is hard to prove conclusively, especially since we are dealing with intent. I'll have to see if I can find the article that tried to show it was disproportionate.

 

My problem is that too often it escalates beyond a shot in the rear end. And once you do that and you're throwing punches or pitches at people's heads you are jeopardizing lives and careers over some really silly stuff.

 

I don't think you can separate the two, escalation is a natural component to this kind of "justice".

I would argue it very rarely escalates, 2-3 times a year. That's why we hear about them.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I would argue it very rarely escalates, 2-3 times a year. That's why we hear about them.

 

We'll have to find some data on it, but I think your number is way, way off.

 

I mean, this isn't scientific, but it sure makes your 2-3 estimate seem way off.

[Oldgoat_MN]

If Machado had been hit in the thigh he would have gone to 1B and everybody could have felt it was done. Throwing at a batter's head is inexcusable. If you want to hurt them, challenge them to a fistfight after the game. At least it wouldn't be the cowardly move of a pitcher who never bats.

[Squirrel]

 

 

Throwing at a guy's head is bull****.

 

There. ftfy Whether the spiking was accidental or not, it's bull**** to throw at someone's head, period, imo.

[big dog]

This will be interesting in the Red Sox clubhouse.  One pitcher thinks he's standing up for Pedroia and gets suspended, Pedroia disavows all knowledge.  Time to have a player's only meeting.

[Squirrel]

 

He's really, really good, of course.  But he's also somewhat dirty.  

Um, I'm not sure labeling him 'dirty' for one spiking that I think looked accidental and not intentional is really called for. Does he have a rep for this sort of thing, or other things, where the label 'dirty' applies? Just curious, because like you, I love Machado but didn't know if there is validity to that.

 

Also, not sure why you love this stuff. What if the pitcher had succeeded and hit Machado in the head ... do you love that? I just don't get it, but to each his/her own.