Reusse: It's time to end the Twins glove affair with Nishioka

[DPJ]

Do you have anything whatsoever to back that up?

I agree that Japan is somewhere between AA/AAA, but .800 to .650 is a pretty drastic split, so drastic I think that you are just making that up.

 

Cause no player from Japan, even the few that succeed like Matsui or Ichiro produce drasticly worse numbers once they come to the states. The stadiums in Japan are smaller, worse pitching, worse fielders, balls running on turf. Matsui's career OPS in Japan was .980, in the states it's .822. Ichiro's OPS dropped over .100 points when he came to the states.

 

I also want to restate my opinion that "marketing" and/or forces above Smith were not the reason for the signing. This was on the scouts, and keep in mind Smith has no scouting background, so I have to believe he went off their recommendations.

 

You got some kind of inside knowledge on this?

[DaveW]

Cause no player from Japan, even the few that succeed like Matsui or Ichiro produce drasticly worse numbers once they come to the states. The stadiums in Japan are smaller, worse pitching, worse fielders, balls running on turf. Matsui's career OPS in Japan was .980, in the states it's .822. Ichiro's OPS dropped over .100 points when he came to the states.

 

 

 

You got some kind of inside knowledge on this?

I still think the automatic assumption of "he was going to lose .150 no matter what" is a bit aggresive. I'd argue that a .100 point drop could/should be expected from a slap hitter like Nishioka.

 

If he ended up being a .700 hitter with good MI defense he still would have been an asset, this is what the team was thinking when they signed him as sort of a worst case scenario. Obviously they felt he could do much better, but the worst case scenario ended up being a nightmare that nobody could have predicted.

 

Seriously, even in the old BYTO threads people were against the signing because it was giving Hardy the boot , not because they predicted he would be one of the worst players in the history of the franchise.

[bird]

Absolutely no one realistically believes the Twins brought Nishi up to deflect attention from other problems. No one, not even thrylos. But thrylos doesn't neccessarily express something because he believes it. Truth is inconsequential in his agenda.

[DPJ]

If he ended up being a .700 hitter with good MI defense he still would have been an asset, this is what the team was thinking when they signed him as sort of a worst case scenario. Obviously they felt he could do much better, but the worst case scenario ended up being a nightmare that nobody could have predicted.

The Twins had a known .700 OPS SS with good MI defense and they gave him away for nothing.

 

Actually quite a few people predicted he's be very very bad, it's not like the history of Japs coming to states is littered with star players.

[cr9617]

An .800 OPS in Japan is like a .650 OPS in the states.

I second that...

[diehardtwinsfan]

The Twins had a known .700 OPS SS with good MI defense and they gave him away for nothing.

 

Actually quite a few people predicted he's be very very bad, it's not like the history of Japs coming to states is littered with star players.

This, to me, was the bigger issue, but Gardy wanted his speed guys (whatever that means, as he never sends them on the bases)... I'll go a step further to note that a .700 OPS out of Hardy was more likely the floor than the ceiling, and we knew that back then as the guy broke an .800 OPS in the second half once his wrist got better... all while playing with elite defense.

[Mauerzy4Prez]

Feel free to get off your soapbox on this non existent issue anytime now. Nobody has said anything offensive regarding Nishioka. People saying "he should be sent back to Japan" isn't racist/inappropriate in the least, and "time to say sayonara to nishi" isn't bad either.

No soapbox here Dave, just backed up what another person said because I agreed with them. A third person validated my opinion after that, so clearly I am not the only person that has been taken back by a few comments. Sorry if you feel differently, we all can have different opinions, which is one of the reasons I enjoy coming to this site so much.

 

Saying someone should be sent back to the county they came from, in certain situations is not a bad thing. What I should have said is that when people use stereotypes or say things like "he should go back to Japan" from a point of anger or hate, then it becomes offensive (at least to me). I am sorry if you don't agree with that, and I can assure you that I am not simply spouting off random nonsensical issues just to get attention. I have had personal experiences where people have told me to "go back to my country" and seeing it on here made me remember how terrible I felt at the time.

[DaveW]

No soapbox here Dave, just backed up what another person said because I agreed with them. A third person validated my opinion after that, so clearly I am not the only person that has been taken back by a few comments. Sorry if you feel differently, we all can have different opinions, which is one of the reasons I enjoy coming to this site so much.

 

Saying someone should be sent back to the county they came from, in certain situations is not a bad thing. What I should have said is that when people use stereotypes or say things like "he should go back to Japan" from a point of anger or hate, then it becomes offensive (at least to me). I am sorry if you don't agree with that, and I can assure you that I am not simply spouting off random nonsensical issues just to get attention. I have had personal experiences where people have told me to "go back to my country" and seeing it on here made me remember how terrible I felt at the time.

When people are saying he should go back to Japan they aren't saying it in a "your not good enough for this country", rather a "if he goes back to Japan he can no longer be a burden on this ballclub"

 

I guess it could be said more PC, but honestly I don't think most people were really offended by that.

[one_eyed_jack]

No soapbox here Dave, just backed up what another person said because I agreed with them. A third person validated my opinion after that, so clearly I am not the only person that has been taken back by a few comments. Sorry if you feel differently, we all can have different opinions, which is one of the reasons I enjoy coming to this site so much.

 

Saying someone should be sent back to the county they came from, in certain situations is not a bad thing. What I should have said is that when people use stereotypes or say things like "he should go back to Japan" from a point of anger or hate, then it becomes offensive (at least to me). I am sorry if you don't agree with that, and I can assure you that I am not simply spouting off random nonsensical issues just to get attention. I have had personal experiences where people have told me to "go back to my country" and seeing it on here made me remember how terrible I felt at the time.

---I'll back that up as well. It's not everyone, and it's not always blatant, but there is undoubtedly a racial tinge to some of what's been hurled at him.

 

And it's well beyond the "your kind don't belong here" undertones of the demand that he go back to where he came from.

 

I've seen him referred to as a "Jap", which many consider to be a derogatory term, and a "sh***ty Asian fielder".

 

I never saw any of our Latin players referred to as 'spics', Nor do I recall references to Jeff Gray as a "sh***ty white pitcher" or Rondell White as a "sh****ty black hitter" during their struggles. The gratuitous racial references are apparently reserved for Nishi.

 

The more obvious examples were the calls for him to be sent on a kamikaze mission and the talk of him committing seppuku. If we had a muslim player who had a couple of bad games, would it be OK to call for him to fly a plane into a building?

 

I understand ripping him for his play. I will never understand the need to add a side of bigotry with it.

[Mauerzy4Prez]

---I'll back that up as well. It's not everyone, and it's not always blatant, but there is undoubtedly a racial tinge to some of what's been hurled at him.

 

And it's well beyond the "your kind don't belong here" undertones of the demand that he go back to where he came from.

 

I've seen him referred to as a "Jap", which many consider to be a derogatory term, and a "sh***ty Asian fielder".

 

I never saw any of our Latin players referred to as 'spics', Nor do I recall references to Jeff Gray as a "sh***ty white pitcher" or Rondell White as a "sh****ty black hitter" during their struggles. The gratuitous racial references are apparently reserved for Nishi.

 

The more obvious examples were the calls for him to be sent on a kamikaze mission and the talk of him committing seppuku. If we had a muslim player who had a couple of bad games, would it be OK to call for him to fly a plane into a building?

 

I understand ripping him for his play. I will never understand the need to add a side of bigotry with it.

That comment that I underlined and put in bold above is EXACTLY the comment that I read and was offended by. I am glad I wasn't the only person that took notice to it and decided to make a statement. As Dave just said, the overall rhetoric towards him is probably not coming from a place of hate or racism. But it only takes one stupid remark on here to set the tone. I get that some people may not have any experience being discriminated against, or have their character judged just because of the way they look. But some of us have, and I wouldn't wish that feeling on my worst enemy.

[jokin]

That comment that I underlined and put in bold above is EXACTLY the comment that I read and was offended by. I am glad I wasn't the only person that took notice to it and decided to make a statement. As Dave just said, the overall rhetoric towards him is probably not coming from a place of hate or racism. But it only takes one stupid remark on here to set the tone. I get that some people may not have any experience being discriminated against, or have their character judged just because of the way they look. But some of us have, and I wouldn't wish that feeling on my worst enemy.

I'm Mauerzy4Prez on the PC Party ticket, and I approved this message....

 

 

( I get where you're coming from, just couldn't resist the obvious shinebox takedown of the easily offended class)

[Nick Nelson]

Yeah, there's no need for all the racial descriptors being used here.

 

If you want to refer to Japan because it's the league he used to play in, fine. Outside of that, I don't think his ethnicity or home country should really be a factor in the discussion. If those kinds of comments keep up we're going to have to start deleting them.

[jokin]

Yeah, there's no need for all the racial descriptors being used here.

 

If you want to refer to Japan because it's the league he used to play in, fine. Outside of that, I don't think his ethnicity or home country should really be a factor in the discussion. If those kinds of comments keep up we're going to have to start deleting them.

Strongly agree.

[Monkeypaws]

First, his defense is amazingly bad.

 

Second, he did sting the ball several times in Cleveland. With a little luck he could have got out of there 3 for 10.

 

Third, I love the photo in the Reusse article - Nishi looks like he a surrounded by soap bubbles. I think I've found my avatar

[snepp]

Does that mean I can no longer refer to him as The Import?

[Nick Nelson]

Does that mean I can no longer refer to him as The Import?

I don't know how anyone could be offended by something so general. Then again, I'm no expert on such matters as very few things offend me.

[Craig Arko]

I don't know how anyone could be offended by something so general. Then again, I'm no expert on such matters as very few things offend me.

Of course we could get confused about whether it refers to Morneau, Diamond, Casilla or others. Maybe even Tony O.

 

Nice to see the other, more tasteless, comment was removed.

[notoriousgod71]

An .800 OPS in Japan is like a .650 OPS in the states.

not only can we look at the history of Asians coming over to the States and seeing their numbers drop but we also can look at the history of Americans going to Japan and dominating. There will be outliers with everything but any time Tuffy Rhodes nearly breaks the HR record you have to think the competition isn't quite what it is here.

[Buddy Grant]

Nice to see the other, more tasteless, comment was removed.

+1.

[Craig Arko]

not only can we look at the history of Asians coming over to the States and seeing their numbers drop but we also can look at the history of Americans going to Japan and dominating. There will be outliers with everything but any time Tuffy Rhodes nearly breaks the HR record you have to think the competition isn't quite what it is here.

Though I always regretted that Sadaharu Oh never played a season or two over here. I understand he and Harmon had developed a mutual respect.

[stringer bell]

Bollinger is reporting that Nishioka will be at Target Field in uniform on Friday. He said that he doubts that he will be in the starting lineup. There is no certainty that Plouffe will be activated and he may be sent to the minors for a short rehab. Even if Plouffe is activated, it could be that the Twins send Manship or Perdomo to Rochester.

[CDog]

I'll go a step further to note that a .700 OPS out of Hardy was more likely the floor than the ceiling, and we knew that back then as the guy broke an .800 OPS in the second half once his wrist got better... all while playing with elite defense.

He's at .660 this year, and he finished the year before he joined the Twins at .659.