No backup plan, again

[Mike Sixel]

Once again, four years in a row, our favorite team has no backup plan for terrible OF play. Once again, it bites them in the butt. Will this team ever learn?

[DaveW]

Hicks had a couple nice catches today, and his team has won 7 straight! If we had him still we certainly would have won these last two games at the very least.

[TheLeviathan]

Bigger problem seems to be leaving guys at second and third with nobody out early in the game....no?

[PseudoSABR]

At some point you have to let the kids play, no?  And the truth is Rosario and Kepler can play in Center and Grossman (or someone like Palka) can man one of the corners (like today).  (Yes the defense takes a big hit, but the offense could offset that if Buxton is a blackhole; it's simply rare to have great defensive centerfielder who can also hit--such a player is not a back-up plan).

 

What would have offended the Twins fanbase more is bringing an actual veteran back-up plan for centerfield and that guy getting at-bats that should goto the youngsters.

[SydneyTwinsFan]

Defensively the OF has been fine. At the plate Kepler has done well, Rosario's approach has been encouraging (if not yet translating into results) and you have to trust that Buxton will hit eventually.

 

I have a bigger problem with this bizarre insistence on a 3-man bench, which gave Molitor no options today with Castro at the plate as the tying run in the 8th inning. Not having one of Vargas/Park/Palka as an option in that spot defies belief, whether in place of the redundant 8th bullpen arm or DanSan (or both). 

[Shaitan]

Second thread today [waiver wire] where I think of Sam Fuld. 

 

And not because I think he's a great player. He's a good 27th man...I'm starting to rethink my opinion that MLB should increase roster size. The strategy of who to keep plays a real role instead of some 9th offensive lineman practice squad garbage.

[diehardtwinsfan]

we lost the game 3-1.  Sorry, but the problem wasn't defense.  Perhaps it could have been 2-1, I don't know.  I didn't watch it.  The problem was the bats.  Bats need Jobu.

[drjim]

 

At some point you have to let the kids play, no?  And the truth is Rosario and Kepler can play in Center and Grossman (or someone like Palka) can man one of the corners (like today).  (Yes the defense takes a big hit, but the offense could offset that if Buxton is a blackhole; it's simply rare to have great defensive centerfielder who can also hit--such a player is not a back-up plan).

 

What would have offended the Twins fanbase more is bringing an actual veteran back-up plan for centerfield and that guy getting at-bats that should goto the youngsters.

 

Kind of telling that the people who advocate strongest for the kids to play are now complaining the loudest about no backup plan when they scuffle.

[drjim]

 

we lost the game 3-1.  Sorry, but the problem wasn't defense.  Perhaps it could have been 2-1, I don't know.  I didn't watch it.  The problem was the bats.  Bats need Jobu.

 

I do think it is time to give one of the bigger bats in AAA a crack. Mauer probably deserved an initial shot, but he's a corpse now.

[gunnarthor]

"Let the kids play" (they struggle for a week and a half) "Play the vets!"

 

Twins FO signs Belise and Breslow "Why is a rebuilding team getting older?  You have to let the kids struggle in the majors!"

[Vanimal46]

The Twins are doing what I had hoped for in the off-season... Playing a primary OF of Rosario-Buxton-Kepler.

 

My biggest gripe, and will continue to be so until it changes, is D Santana playing nearly 50% of games in the OF. I would be much happier having someone else receive that playing time whenever the main 3 need a day off. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Buxton is a problem right now. The lack of a bench is a problem right now.

 

Kepler is mashing the ball.

 

Rosario has improved his approach but the .235 BABIP is killing him. That will normalize. It began to normalize last night, actually.

 

The guy who should be getting reps on occasion, Robbie Grossman, has an absurd 1.043 OPS for the season.

 

I struggle to see how the outfield is the problem here. Buxton is a problem. The 24 man pitching staff is a problem. The "outfield" isn't a real problem.

[markos]

 

"Let the kids play" (they struggle for a week and a half) "Play the vets!"

 

Twins FO signs Belise and Breslow "Why is a rebuilding team getting older?  You have to let the kids struggle in the majors!"

I think that is a mischaracterization of what is happening here. I don't think it is contradictory to hold these two thoughts at the same time:
1) Play the kids as much as possible
2) If there is a level of play that is so bad that you won't play the kids, then have a backup plan in place.
Personally, I would prefer that Buxton keeps playing through his struggles. But if they are going to sit him, then I would like a legitimate outfielder to take his place. And in my opinion, Grossman and Santana are not legitimate outfielders.

Further, given the age, lack of experience and prior track records of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler, it certainly seems likely that at least one of them would struggle significantly. It's not like this was unforeseeable.

[markos]

 

Buxton is a problem right now. The lack of a bench is a problem right now.

 

Kepler is mashing the ball.

 

Rosario has improved his approach but the .235 BABIP is killing him. That will normalize. It began to normalize last night, actually.

 

The guy who should be getting reps on occasion, Robbie Grossman, has an absurd 1.043 OPS for the season.

 

I struggle to see how the outfield is the problem here. Buxton is a problem. The 24 man pitching staff is a problem. The "outfield" isn't a real problem.

I would contend that Grossman in the outfield is a problem.

[Brock Beauchamp]

We either let the kids play or we don't. There is no middle ground here. The "old man" in the outfield is Robbie Grossman at the ripe old age of 27 years old.

 

There's also Daniel Palka, who is off to a fine start in Rochester.

 

If we want to complain about Danny Santana, so be it. I don't think you'll find many defenders of him being on the roster... But the "outfield" playing most nights is the outfield the Twins need to field if they want to see long-term success.

 

I'd give Santana the boot, play Grossman in right a little more often, and call up Vargas. Or keep Santana, play him less, and swap a pitcher for Vargas. Whatever. I don't really care about the 25th man very much. If it helps Paul sleep at night to have a pinch runner "do it all, but badly" player as the 25th man, so be it. That won't kill the team.

 

The problem I see is that a short bench with Santana on it puts Molitor in a bad position position every third night or so.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I would contend that Grossman in the outfield is a problem.

I'm not willing to concede that quite yet. He was a centerfielder in the minors and posted adequate numbers in Houston as a corner outfielder.

 

He won't be good, on that we can all agree, but there's no reason he's as bad as he was in 2016.

 

And with a starting alignment of Rosario/Kepler/Buxton, the fourth outfielder doesn't have to flash the leather when he plays every third night.

[Loosey]

 

we lost the game 3-1.  Sorry, but the problem wasn't defense.  Perhaps it could have been 2-1, I don't know.  I didn't watch it.  The problem was the bats.  Bats need Jobu.

They did lose 3-1.  If it would have been 2-1 the Twins would have likely tied it in the bottom of the 9th.  They held up the Rosario at 3rd when he likely would have scored on Kepler's double because that run didn't matter yet since they needed 2 and Sano was coming to the plate.  So, one run in two run losses can make a difference.  But yes, I agree the bats need to come to life.  I just hope they didn't waste the best starting pitching they will have all year by not hitting. And then start hitting in June when the pitching turns back into a pumpkin.

[Mike Sixel]

I think that is a mischaracterization of what is happening here. I don't think it is contradictory to hold these two thoughts at the same time:

1) Play the kids as much as possible

2) If there is a level of play that is so bad that you won't play the kids, then have a backup plan in place.

Personally, I would prefer that Buxton keeps playing through his struggles. But if they are going to sit him, then I would like a legitimate outfielder to take his place. And in my opinion, Grossman and Santana are not legitimate outfielders.

Further, given the age, lack of experience and prior track records of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler, it certainly seems likely that at least one of them would struggle significantly. It's not like this was unforeseeable.

This. If you have young players, and your backup plan is Danny Santana playing forty percent of the time, the backup plan is bad. You can play the young players, and have a backup. Those are not contrary opinions.

[drjim]

I would also contend that rostering Santana from day 1 is "playing the kids" too. Dude is still 26.

 

I would agree that he isn't going to work out and should make a move.

 

There is a backup plan, but it is not as attractive as the original plan, going to result in a big downgrade in defense. Not really that realistic to roster above average defensive players at all positions and the 4th of spot too.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I would also contend that rostering Santana from day 1 is "playing the kids" too. Dude is still 26.

I would agree that he isn't going to work out and should make a move.

There is a backup plan, but it is not as attractive as the original plan, going to result in a big downgrade in defense. Not really that realistic to roster above average defensive players at all positions and the 4th of spot too.

 

that's a fair stance. I don't agree with their conclusion that DanSan is a viable MLB player, but I guess if I squint I can see how what you say is true.

 

I'd prefer Grossman play the OF when they rest a player (given the roster). I'd actually like a veteran out there, that can help with the mental aspects of playing the OF. 

 

I'd like Buxton to get thru June, but if he's hitting like this that long, I'd like him in AAA, I guess. And he doesn't come up until the process looks the same every pitch.

[gunnarthor]

 

I think that is a mischaracterization of what is happening here. I don't think it is contradictory to hold these two thoughts at the same time:
1) Play the kids as much as possible
2) If there is a level of play that is so bad that you won't play the kids, then have a backup plan in place.
Personally, I would prefer that Buxton keeps playing through his struggles. But if they are going to sit him, then I would like a legitimate outfielder to take his place. And in my opinion, Grossman and Santana are not legitimate outfielders.

Further, given the age, lack of experience and prior track records of Rosario/Buxton/Kepler, it certainly seems likely that at least one of them would struggle significantly. It's not like this was unforeseeable.

Unless you want to send Buxton to the minors, the OF is fine.  No one loves Santana on the roster - except Molitor - but him having 4 starts in the OF (and none in center) isn't the problem. There are tons of journeymen OF that the Twins can sign if they need to send Buxton to AAA but considering the roster crunch it didn't make sense to do that yet.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

In the few, few innings of Grossman in right field so far, he has looked competent. A big reversal from how poorly he played in left field last season. And he can hit, no question.

[Steve Lein]

I'd argue they have the best CF-backup plan they've ever had.

 

Their names are Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler.

 

I don't think they're the type you want to rely on in CF over a full season, but they are capable there. 

[drjim]

 

I'd argue they have the best CF-backup plan they've ever had.

 

Their names are Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler.

 

I don't think they're the type you want to rely on in CF over a full season, but they are capable there. 

 

I concur with this. Combined with those two, they can slide Grossman into a corner if they call up Vargas, or they can call up Palka and have him play a corner trading off with Grossman. They have a lot of combos they could roll with.

[howieramone2]

 

Kind of telling that the people who advocate strongest for the kids to play are now complaining the loudest about no backup plan when they scuffle.

Bingo!

[Mike Sixel]

 

Bingo!

 

How do you feel about the actual topic of the thread?

[Craig Arko]

 

How do you feel about the actual topic of the thread?

It is premature.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Okay, tone it down. Do not make responses about the poster, make them about the topic at hand.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Okay, tone it down. Do not make responses about the poster, make them about the topic at hand.

I prefer italics over bold when admonishing others.  That said, I was pleased to see you avoided underlining or--god forbid--combining them.

[gunnarthor]

 

I prefer italics over bold when admonishing others.  That said, I was pleased to see you avoided underlining or--god forbid--combining them.

You're not the boss of me! I do what I want!