Hicks for Murphy trade: 14 months later

[Brandon Warne]

 

You surprise me Brandon.

 

Hicks has generated 2.4 WAR in his career. (this is his 5th year)

Rosario has generated 3.0 WAR in his career. (this is his 3rd year)

 

Maybe Hicks has tools that the others don't have, but I find it very hard to believe that at the end of their careers Rosario won't have much better numbers than Hicks.

 

I just like the offensive approach better. It's about tools instead of results for me. I agree that Rosario has played better, but I think he'll also get fewer chances in the modern MLB. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

I just like the offensive approach better. It's about tools instead of results for me. I agree that Rosario has played better, but I think he'll also get fewer chances in the modern MLB. 

Maybe that's the case but we're talking about a 25 year old with 875 MLB PAs and a .720 OPS versus a 27 year old with 1325 MLB PAs and a .655 OPS.

 

Aaron Hicks' chances of becoming better than Eddie Rosario are pretty slim, even if Rosario has some warts. Rosario has age, experience, and on-field performance on his side.

[ashbury]

Please keep in mind that I will arrive hungry.

Don't forget thirsty. I took a look at their wine selection.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Maybe that's the case but we're talking about a 25 year old with 875 MLB PAs and a .720 OPS versus a 27 year old with 1325 MLB PAs and a .655 OPS.

 

Aaron Hicks' chances of becoming better than Eddie Rosario are pretty slim, even if Rosario has some warts. Rosario has age, experience, and on-field performance on his side.

 

Yeah, this isn't even all that close.

[glunn]

 

Don't forget thirsty. I took a look at their wine selection.

I will be drinking kamikazes and walking/staggering home, hopefully in victory. This restaurant is about 1,500 feet from my house.

[old nurse]

Yet another thread on Hicks?Murphy. After 7 pages of a rehash of threads gone by it is no wonder the moderator has thoughts about kamikazes.

[The Wise One]

What statistic people do not know. From fall 2014 on a prospect ranking page was their list of valuable players who were no longer prospect status but  not yet established...

Big League Growth Assets
1. Oswaldo Arcia, RF, Age 23
2. Eduardo Escobar, SS, Age 25
3. Josmil Pinto, C/DH, Age 25
4. Kennys Vargas, 1B/DH, Age 24
5. Danny Santana, UT, Age 23
6. Aaron Hicks, CF, Age 24

 

The return for the three no longer on the roster has been one minor league catcher.  Santana would likely pass through waivers unless there is one GM who thinks they can recreate Santana's season of beating out bunts and infield hits. Vargas might net you a reliever, but not a good one.

[DaveW]

Weekly Hicks vs Murphy update:
Another Solid Week and another BOMB for Hicks this week: 

Overall:

Hicks .303/.455/.727 for a solid 1.182 OPS
Only 4 strike outs in 33 at bats. Not bad! He has as many Home Runs as strike outs!
10 walks! 4 HR.

Murphy's 2017 MLB line: .000/.000/.000 
Murphy's 2017 AAA line: .136/.240/.182 for a .422 OPS

Aaron Hicks 2017 WAR: 0.8
Murphys Career MLB War: 0.4

The Twins current OF:
Rosario 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2
Buxton 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2
Danny Santana 2017 WAR (negative) 0.1
Kepler 2017 WAR 0.8 (Imagine if we had another guy playing like Kepler!)

Thankfully we have some real nice 3rd catcher depth at AAA though!

[Han Joelo]

Where do I go for the weekly Jepsen vs. Hu updates?

 

Also, the Arcia vs. $$ update?

[DaveW]

Hu got promoted to the majors today FWIW

 

Was the 7th best Rays prospect coming into this year.

 

I'd much rather have him in the rotation then Gibson, and he would look pretty nice right now for SP depth on a team that has zero.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Internet bets are stupid.  It's phony machismo.  As it was last year when you pimped how amazing Hicks would be too.  How'd that work out for you?

 

Hicks will settle back in around 600-650 OPS and be lucky to do it with a BA that cracks .230.  That's who he's been.  That's who he'll always be.  He can't hit.

Right up there with "So's your Mama!"  

 

p.s.  yeah, that's the best I got.....

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Weekly Hicks vs Murphy update:
Another Solid Week and another BOMB for Hicks this week: 

Overall:

Hicks .303/.455/.727 for a solid 1.182 OPS
Only 4 strike outs in 33 at bats. Not bad! He has as many Home Runs as strike outs!
10 walks! 4 HR.

Murphy's 2017 MLB line: .000/.000/.000 
Murphy's 2017 AAA line: .136/.240/.182 for a .422 OPS

Aaron Hicks 2017 WAR: 0.8
Murphys Career MLB War: 0.4

The Twins current OF:
Rosario 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2
Buxton 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2
Danny Santana 2017 WAR (negative) 0.1
Kepler 2017 WAR 0.8 (Imagine if we had another guy playing like Kepler!)

Thankfully we have some real nice 3rd catcher depth at AAA though!

Dave, I'm going to ask you a question and if I don't like the answer, I'm going to lock this thread.

What is the point of continuing this conversation?

The guy who made the trade isn't even in the organization anymore. You're harping on a past deal that was the fault of someone who was fired.

[DaveW]

 

Dave, I'm going to ask you a question and if I don't like the answer, I'm going to lock this thread.

What is the point of continuing this conversation?

The guy who made the trade isn't even in the organization anymore. You're harping on a past deal that was the fault of someone who was fired.

Plenty of people rather high up in the org are still in the organization, so far this year, the "new" regime looks a whole lot like the old regime IMO. Same manager, the #2 FO guy is still around along with most of the scouts etc who likely gave info on this trade.

People bring up past signings, past trades, past whatever all the time! Hell, didn't you start a thread about Santana being a great pitcher? He was signed by the old regime, why bring that up?

Are we only allowed to talk about the "good" things that the old regime did? Additionally the Hicks trade debate has been going on for a year or so, it's interesting to follow and it's all in good fun (especially since Glunn and I have a friendly bet and everyone was telling me that there was no way Hicks could keep it up)

Additionally JR Murphy is still in the org, we have no real 4th OF, our starting CF has a .300 OPS, so the trade is still relevant.

Of course, it's your choice to lock the thread, do what you want but if you do it absolutely REEKS of hypocrisy. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Plenty of people rather high up in the org are still in the organization, so far this year, the "new" regime looks a whole lot like the old regime IMO. Same manager, the #2 FO guy is still around along with most of the scouts etc who likely gave info on this trade.

People bring up past signings, past trades, past whatever all the time! Hell, didn't you start a thread about Santana being a great pitcher? He was signed by the old regime, why bring that up

 

? Are we only allowed to talk about the "good" things that the old regime did? Additionally the Hicks trade debate has been going on for a year or so, it's interesting to follow and it's all in good fun (especially since Glunn and I have a friendly bet and everyone was telling me that there was no way Hicks could keep it up)

Of course, it's your choice to lock the thread, do what you want but if you do it absolutely REEKS of hypocrisy. 

My thread about Santana is relevant, seeing how he's the best pitcher in the Twins organization right now. And I believe my post was titled "deserve some credit". That's hardly a ringing endorsement of the old front office, merely a hat tip to acquiring a very good pitcher. And it's not as if the old front office did that very often, something we all acknowledge and talk about ad nauseum.

 

No one here has defended Murphy. He's been terrible. Hicks is long gone and has a good 40 plate appearance streak going. Before that, Hicks was also terrible.

 

My point at large is that you've been intentionally stirring the pot again, hammering at points that don't seem very relevant to the 2017 Twins or the people in charge. You can deflect all you want about how some of the same guys are still in charge but do you honestly believe the Hicks/Murphy trade would happen under Falvey and Levine? If not, what's the point of continuing this line of discussion?

 

Normally, I'd ignore this thread and post but in times like these, we clamp down on the forums because it's easy to let them spiral out of control as posters (and, frankly, we moderators and owners) get frustrated with the play of the team and create vendetta threads/posts. And that's bad for the site.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, the scouts and FO types who made all these moves are still here. You know, the ones that got us Escobar and Santiago as the only returns on trades on the roster.

 

And, the new FO has given us no reason to believe they are any better at trades, have they? It's clearly early, but they did nothing on the trade front to make this team better.

[DaveW]

It's still all in good fun and very tongue in cheek.

 

When Hicks turns into a pumpkin it will remain fun.

[gunnarthor]

 

It's still all in good fun and very tongue in cheek.

When Hicks turns into a pumpkin it will remain fun.

Oh yeah, this has been a hoot and a half.

[Mike Sixel]

I do think it is a silly thread, frankly.....The Hu/Jepsen trade bothers me much, much more, because I think it came when the Twins did not really need just 1 RP to be very good and get over the top. 

[TheLeviathan]

I take solace in the fact that we probably would've just screwed up Hu anyway.

 

Like everything else.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

I take solace in the fact that we probably would've just screwed up Hu anyway.

 

Like everything else.  

 

Ouch. But man, look at the list of pitchers they've drafted and developed, and you may be right. alas.

[DaveW]

I do think it is a silly thread, frankly.....The Hu/Jepsen trade bothers me much, much more, because I think it came when the Twins did not really need just 1 RP to be very good and get over the top.

Yeah giving up Hu drove me bonkers when it happened. Ugh.

 

Almost as pointless as sending along Meyer in the Santiago trade and Bartlett in the Delmon trade.

 

Doh!

[Linus]

Yeah giving up Hu drove me bonkers when it happened. Ugh.

 

Almost as pointless as sending along Meyer in the Santiago trade and Bartlett in the Delmon trade.

 

Doh!

Except Meyer hasn't done a thing and at this stage likely wont. Whatever we get for Santiago at the trade deadline might be the most valuable piece in that whole trade.

[Deduno Abides]

Well, the scouts and FO types who made all these moves are still here. You know, the ones that got us Escobar and Santiago as the only returns on trades on the roster.

 

And, the new FO has given us no reason to believe they are any better at trades, have they? It's clearly early, but they did nothing on the trade front to make this team better.

Thankfully, they haven't made any bad trades yet or jettisoned anyone of positive value, either. Swing-from-the-heals trades require (1) big risk, (2) available assets to trade, and (3) a belief that trader would either be a long-term positive or make a difference now between making playoffs or not.

[GCTF]

 

I do think it is a silly thread, frankly.....The Hu/Jepsen trade bothers me much, much more, because I think it came when the Twins did not really need just 1 RP to be very good and get over the top. 

But Jepsen gave us multiple years 28 innings of quality bullpenning.

[DaveW]

Weekly Hicks vs Murphy update:

Another Solid Week and another BOMB for Hicks this week:

 

Overall:

 

Hicks .303/.455/.727 for a solid 1.182 OPS

Only 4 strike outs in 33 at bats. Not bad! He has as many Home Runs as strike outs!

10 walks! 4 HR.

 

Murphy's 2017 MLB line: .000/.000/.000

Murphy's 2017 AAA line: .136/.240/.182 for a .422 OPS

 

Aaron Hicks 2017 WAR: 0.8

Murphys Career MLB War: 0.4

 

The Twins current OF:

Rosario 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2

Buxton 2017 WAR (negative) 0.2

Danny Santana 2017 WAR (negative) 0.1

Kepler 2017 WAR 0.8 (Imagine if we had another guy playing like Kepler!)

 

Thankfully we have some real nice 3rd catcher depth at AAA though!

Update: after yesterday's games Aaron hicks is still rocking a 1.182 OPS

[twinsnorth49]

[DaveW]

You don't care harder than anyone I have ever met

 

 

 

Also you missed the joke

[Vanimal46]

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLpfbcXTeo8

[twinsnorth49]

 

Also you missed the joke

Uh, yeah...... no.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think this is more along the lines of what Dave is thinking during every Hicks at-bat this season:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA