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[DPJ]

Eli is not an elite QB. I'm sorry but being good enough in close games with a great team around you does not ELITE make. Peyton is 10 times the qb that Eli could ever wish to be.

 

Eli's entire body of work might not scream elite QB in the Peyton, Brady, Breese class. But for a playoff run in 2007 and 2011 he was up there with any QB in the league. And funny how the the Giants are a medicore team while Eli is playing average QB, but then he guess crazy in the postseason and you have a Super Bowl winning team.

 

Teams live and die by their QB's now a days. Hell who even cares about defense anymore, the two worst defensive teams in the league last season were the #1 seeds going into the postseason. If you don't have elite QB in this league you have no chance at winning a Super Bowl.

[DaveW]

I would argue that Rapesligberger is not "elite" yet continues to make and win super bowls.

You can build a super bowl caliber team around defense these days, it's just hard to do.

 

Also the Ravens and 49ers were each one fluke play away from the super bowl last year as well, both have pretty ho-hum QB's. I think Ponder could become as good as an Alex Smith or Joe Flacco some day if things break right.

[DPJ]

I would argue that Rapesligberger is not "elite" yet continues to make and win super bowls.

You can build a super bowl caliber team around defense these days, it's just hard to do.

 

Also the Ravens and 49ers were each one fluke play away from the super bowl last year as well, both have pretty ho-hum QB's. I think Ponder could become as good as an Alex Smith or Joe Flacco some day if things break right.

 

The first Super Bowl I will admit that the Steelers team carried him, but the second Super Bowl Big Ben was damn good. NTM since he came back some smashing his face on the ground, Ben has been a damn good QB. Not in the Manning, Brady, Rogers class, but pretty damn good and good enough to win a Super Bowl with.

 

One fluke play yes, but at the end of the day if the 49ers would have got even decent play outta Smith they would have blown the Giants away. But Smith played like crap and even a great defense can hold a team down for so long. Flacco has been a bit better then ho-hum the last couple seasons and he was great in the postseason last year. Good enough to win that game.

[DaveW]

Exactly, but Flacco isn't some "elite" QB, he is a good QB. Somewhere around the 10-12 range. The notion that you need a Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Manning type to compete in this league is incorrect.

 

There is no reason if things don't break right that Ponder can't eventually get into that range as well. Of course it would help if he wasn't surrounded by the worst WR and TE corp in football...

[DPJ]

We had to talk over to BYTO and it was broken down into two groups. At the end of the day I think we agreed on 8 QB's that you can win a Super Bowl with now.

 

Group A: Brady, Rogers, Brees & the Mannings

Group B: Big Ben, Rivers & Stafford

 

Now clearly over time things will change, hell I personally think Peyton is done but I'll leave him in here for now. But could a Romo, Flacco, Ryan or Newton creep into Group B...ofcourse. But one of these 8 guys are more then likely gonna win the Super Bowl this season and it's cause they're the best QB's in the league and teams are driven by great QB play. You can compete without elite play, but you ain't winning a Super Bowl without it.

[B Richard]

We had to talk over to BYTO and it was broken down into two groups. At the end of the day I think we agreed on 8 QB's that you can win a Super Bowl with now.

 

Group A: Brady, Rogers, Brees & the Mannings

Group B: Big Ben, Rivers & Stafford

 

Now clearly over time things will change, hell I personally think Peyton is done but I'll leave him in here for now. But could a Romo, Flacco, Ryan or Newton creep into Group B...ofcourse. But one of these 8 guys are more then likely gonna win the Super Bowl this season and it's cause they're the best QB's in the league and teams are driven by great QB play. You can compete without elite play, but you ain't winning a Super Bowl without it.

 

 

Not sure Big Ben belongs in Group B- I'd put him a notch below. Say what you want about the Steelers' O-Line, every time I turn around I swear Ben is getting sacked. His lack of mobility and his knack for racking up minor injuries. I'll any of the other guys over him. And what about Vick? His health is a big IF, but all things being equal, I think he is as good as most of the QBs listed above.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Never use early 1st round picks on QB's. For every Peyton Manning theres 2 Akili Smiths. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rogers can be had without being fools.

 

Rogers was a first round pick... just saying... He was considered top 10 and fell. Brees was a 2nd rounder too, not as though he was a gem found in the 7th like Brady.

[diehardtwinsfan]

As do I. Unfortunately, we are going to be force fed the BS that he is legit and made strides in the offseason. Whatever. I would take Farve now over Ponder.

 

That's why I think only bodily harm to Ponder can save us. Wanna flip the coin for which one of us is Tanya Harding and which is Shane Stant?

 

Funny story about this. I ended up working with Shawn Eckhart (though he had assumed a different name) for a brief period of time until he was essentially let go for incompetence... He died not long after that and his family threatened to sue my former employer.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Huh?

 

Sometimes QB's taken in the top 5 aren't very good at football for example Rick Mirer, Akili Smith, Alex Smith, JaMarcus Russle, Ryan Leaf, Vince Young, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch. I'm sick of 35 year old's finishing there career as Vikings, but that approach is actually very logical. Drafting QB's is like drafting goalies in hockey, unless they are hall of famers or close to it they are a waste of a pick.

 

Is it that they are bad at football or other things. Wasn't it Montana or Young that said that they would have been a bust had the Raiders taken them instead? A QB will often shine if the system maximizes his strengths. As well, I'd argue that a lot of guys on this list failed not because they sucked at football and no one noticed, but because they had jack squat for a line and got their bell rung so many times that they couldn't play well. To me, this is teh danger of burning the first rounder on a QB. If your line sucks, you'd better have someone take hits for your QB year 1 until you can improve it.

 

I agree that you shoudl sick of 35 year olds finishing their career in MN, as am I, but getting the sexy pick without fixing the line is far more likely to yield a Tim Couch than a Matt Stafford.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Eli is not an elite QB. I'm sorry but being good enough in close games with a great team around you does not ELITE make. Peyton is 10 times the qb that Eli could ever wish to be.

 

Eli's entire body of work might not scream elite QB in the Peyton, Brady, Breese class. But for a playoff run in 2007 and 2011 he was up there with any QB in the league. And funny how the the Giants are a medicore team while Eli is playing average QB, but then he guess crazy in the postseason and you have a Super Bowl winning team.

 

Teams live and die by their QB's now a days. Hell who even cares about defense anymore, the two worst defensive teams in the league last season were the #1 seeds going into the postseason. If you don't have elite QB in this league you have no chance at winning a Super Bowl.

 

The Giants went crazy when their defense came together. That may have helped Eli a bit, but it was that front four in particular that pushed them fringe to SB team.

[DPJ]

The Giants went crazy when their defense came together. That may have helped Eli a bit, but it was that front four in particular that pushed them fringe to SB team.

 

Hmmm...lets see what meant more to the Giants winning the Super Bowl. Manning completing 65% of his passes, throwing 9 TD to 1 INT and having a QB rating of 103.

 

Or the Giants very good Dline...I'll take Eli thank you very much.

[diehardtwinsfan]

There's no way the Giants win that game if their defense doesn't step up... just sayin. The packer's offense was ridiculous and the Giants rendered them limp...

[DPJ]

There's no way the Giants win that game if their defense doesn't step up... just sayin. The packer's offense was ridiculous and the Giants rendered them limp...

 

Well yeah ofcourse, no QB is gonna win a game singlehandly. But if it comes down to having an elite Qb or an elite D-line any sane person will take the QB and it's not even close.

[TheLeviathan]

Hmmm...lets see what meant more to the Giants winning the Super Bowl. Manning completing 65% of his passes, throwing 9 TD to 1 INT and having a QB rating of 103.

 

Or the Giants very good Dline...I'll take Eli thank you very much.

 

QB elite play is pretty much essential to win now....BUT, I don't think there is any question that their first championship was won by a defensive line that ravaged an undefeated team in a way they hadn't experienced that season.

[DaveW]

Vikings looked really good yesterday, 2-1 now, wish we were 3-0 but can't complain to much. 7-9 or 8-8 looks very possible at this point.

 

Ponder without a doubt has looked pretty damn impressive thus far completeing like 70% of his throws and having 0 Ints. It will be interesting to see how much the passing game improves with Simpson comimg back, besides Harvin and Rudoplh the rest of the WR/TE's have been atrocious thus far (Armashdou whatever his name is, looks like a decent enough #3 though i guess)

[TheLeviathan]

Ponder has been better, but let's face it - most of his production the first two weeks were when the defenses backed off. The Niners game was much more impressive all around for him though.

[DaveW]

Ponder has been better, but let's face it - most of his production the first two weeks were when the defenses backed off. The Niners game was much more impressive all around for him though.

 

Make backhanded compliments all you want, the dude has the 4th or 5th highest QB rating in all of football, and has yet to make any real harmful mistakes. The most encouraging thing is he appears to be improving each and every game. The guy will never be a Brees/Rogers/Brady type, but could end up being a damn fine QB for us moving forward.

 

Any thoughts on all those Toby fumbles? With Peterson back at 100% and them using Harvin out of the backfield 3-4 times a game, is it even worth having Toby on the roster? Too bad we can't showcase him a bit then trade him for a 3rd rounder or a WR or something. I think Toby could actually be a solid asset for a number of teams in the league (maybe not a starter, but a 50/50 type guy on a team without any elite RB's)

[biggentleben]

Ponder has been better, but let's face it - most of his production the first two weeks were when the defenses backed off. The Niners game was much more impressive all around for him though.

 

Make backhanded compliments all you want, the dude has the 4th or 5th highest QB rating in all of football, and has yet to make any real harmful mistakes. The most encouraging thing is he appears to be improving each and every game. The guy will never be a Brees/Rogers/Brady type, but could end up being a damn fine QB for us moving forward.

 

Any thoughts on all those Toby fumbles? With Peterson back at 100% and them using Harvin out of the backfield 3-4 times a game, is it even worth having Toby on the roster? Too bad we can't showcase him a bit then trade him for a 3rd rounder or a WR or something. I think Toby could actually be a solid asset for a number of teams in the league (maybe not a starter, but a 50/50 type guy on a team without any elite RB's)

 

Gerhart is a must. Harbaugh was his college coach and just may have known a particular flaw in his running that left the ball exposed more than usual. He was caught mouthing something to the effect of "I can't believe he did it again!" after the third fumble, so he may have been trying to go after Gerhart. I did feel it was poor form to have Gerhart back in there after the 2nd fumble. Regardless, Gerhart is a must on the team. He's a decent blocker, he's got good hands in the passing game, and you simply cannot go without another possible bell cow back on your roster, no matter how healthy the starter is at that moment.

[DaveW]

Ponder has been better, but let's face it - most of his production the first two weeks were when the defenses backed off. The Niners game was much more impressive all around for him though.

 

Make backhanded compliments all you want, the dude has the 4th or 5th highest QB rating in all of football, and has yet to make any real harmful mistakes. The most encouraging thing is he appears to be improving each and every game. The guy will never be a Brees/Rogers/Brady type, but could end up being a damn fine QB for us moving forward.

 

Any thoughts on all those Toby fumbles? With Peterson back at 100% and them using Harvin out of the backfield 3-4 times a game, is it even worth having Toby on the roster? Too bad we can't showcase him a bit then trade him for a 3rd rounder or a WR or something. I think Toby could actually be a solid asset for a number of teams in the league (maybe not a starter, but a 50/50 type guy on a team without any elite RB's)

 

Gerhart is a must. Harbaugh was his college coach and just may have known a particular flaw in his running that left the ball exposed more than usual. He was caught mouthing something to the effect of "I can't believe he did it again!" after the third fumble, so he may have been trying to go after Gerhart. I did feel it was poor form to have Gerhart back in there after the 2nd fumble. Regardless, Gerhart is a must on the team. He's a decent blocker, he's got good hands in the passing game, and you simply cannot go without another possible bell cow back on your roster, no matter how healthy the starter is at that moment.

 

Adrian Peterson isn't your typical starting RB, the dude is a workhorse who can literally be in 90% of the snaps, the other 10% can be handled fine by Harvin. Toby seems like to good of a talent to rot on the bench for 5 meaningless carries a game, there are plenty of guys the Vikes could bring in to handle that "load", I'd prefer to trade Toby while he still has value and get a decent pick or player back in return.

 

I get having depth is nice, but if Peterson gets hurt the VIkes are screwed regardless of if Toby is the back up or not.

[TheLeviathan]

Make backhanded compliments all you want, the dude has the 4th or 5th highest QB rating in all of football, and has yet to make any real harmful mistakes. The most encouraging thing is he appears to be improving each and every game. The guy will never be a Brees/Rogers/Brady type, but could end up being a damn fine QB for us moving forward.

 

It's not a backhanded compliment - it's reality. Stinking for three quarters against the pitiful Colts defense is every bit as big a problem as his success against San Fran was a positive. He's played one good game - which is pretty much as many as he played last year too. The lack of turnovers is definitely a plus, but this team should have been 0-2 in large part because of his poor play the first two games. I'll wait until he's had at least another 49er game before getting too excited.

[TheLeviathan]

Jesus....this team is 3-1? Wow...Ponder looked awful, but they got it done!