Article: Surprises Mark Twins Opening Day Roster

[Doomtints]

 

I see 58 for Tuesday.  Gorgeous!

 

Too bad they're not playing on Tuesday. But you can always go and see them on Monday evening (40s in the evening), Wednesday (40s/rain), or Thursday (40s) before they hit the road to another cold-weather city.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Doomtints

[Respy]

 

Too bad they're not playing on Tuesday.

 

Ok, Monday then.  61 degrees and sunny.  Even better.

[drjim]

 

trading Santana and putting Mejia or Berrios in his place as the plan would have made them older? 

 

Let me be more clear, the people this FO added are older players, not younger players. I'm not sure how I failed to make that clear, but hopefully now I have. This FO added older players, not younger players. And they tried to sign a 30 something DH, to make it even older.

 

Almost certainly would have made them older. Any young players added by trading Dozier and/or Santana would have been prospects that almost certainly wouldn't have broke camp with the team. And they would have had to add veterans to fill those roster spots on opening day. This is especially true for Santana. As bad as shape the rotation is in right now, no chance they would go opening day with Mejia or Berrios instead of Santana. They would need a 9 man bullpen.

 

It's really hard to add young players right? It's not exactly clear how they would do that unless they wanted to force a young guy from the farm he isn't ready. Better to develop them and call them up when they're ready. Even teams that traded everyone and stripped to the studs filled a large part of the roster with veterans to hold a spot until a young guy is ready (I don't think Houston or Chicago were ever the youngest teams in the majors). 

[Doomtints]

 

Ok, Monday then.  61 degrees and sunny.  Even better.

 

They're playing in late afternoon/early evening. It won't be that warm in the evening, it will be in the 40s.

 

And again, you're ignoring what I said, so I'll paste it:

 

"Temps in the 40s and 50s aren't a big deal to us, but the team has been in Florida for the past few months."

 

I'll add a bit more: Some of these pitchers have never played in Minnesota in April.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Doomtints

[drjim]

Also, fun fact - looking at ESPNs analysis of rosters at the moment, Twins are second youngest:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rosters/_/sort/average_age/order/true

 

This obviously is more of a 40 man look with some non-roster guys, but does kind of contradict the complaint taht they didn't get any younger. This is a fuller roster of players that are likely to be used throughout the year. Once the 25 mans shake out they might drop a couple spots for opening day roster, but certainly not that many, and perhaps none at all.

[Halsey Hall]

As we were down at .the minor fields this morning a cart came by with Parks and a catchers gear.  Thought maybe they'd be playing down here.  And then the word. Talk about a bunch of pissed off fans

[jud6312]

So, Robbie Grossman is the everyday DH, Danny Santana is still employed and they're using an 8-man bullpen?

 

If I had three nightmare scenarios for this roster, two of them are listed above.

 

Absolute garbage.

[JaleelWhite FanClub]

I'm really starting to hate OBP.

 

It's turning into the reason why I seemingly don't agree with any move a FO makes anymore. Mauer, the team's icon and "face of the franchise" has almost no value beyond it. So he gets every start at 1B and probably bats in the 3-hole all year. Meanwhile, exciting, toolsy guys like Rosario are ridiculed because they don't walk enough (even though his defense and extra-base power give him WAR at  or above the Mauer's of the world). And guys like Grossman make teams and figure prominently into Opening Day plans while a masher like Park is sent packing.

 

You know when OBP actually helps a team? When it's a good freakin' team! Billy Beane can look like a genius with crapshoot guys who walk a lot when he has Hudson, Mulder, and Zito making 60% of starts.

[howieramone2]

 

Completely agree Mike. If this was the team and this was the approach, Dozier and Ervin have no reason to be on this team. Zero.

Put me in the camp of hoping that a new FO would at least have a plan. I don't see a plan. The only positive thing they did was sign Castro who may help break some young pitchers in. But at this rate he won't be on the next good team.

Heck, we actually got older by swapping Meyer for Santiago, who also won't be on the next good team.

We will know more at the trade deadline, but a fair assumption is they are looking to contend in 2018. If they decide they want to institute a new 5 year plan, they can still deal Dozier and Ervin at anytime.

[Buddy Holly]

 

I can't see the OF thing happening, they have Grossman and Santana on the roster. Who would that additional OF replace?

 

It is certainly possible they are working on a Haley trade, but if so, why announce moves now?

I would expect Dan San to be gone when Adrianza is off DL. Grossman is a terrible defensive OF. The 4th OF should be a defensive replacement, plus the 3 starters will struggle at times and need a break. 

[jud6312]

Better hashtag for this team:

 

#MoveOver62Mets

 

or

 

#TheDriveFor105

[jud6312]

 

I would expect Dan San to be gone when Adrianza is off DL. Grossman is a terrible defensive OF. The 4th OF should be a defensive replacement, plus the 3 starters will struggle at times and need a break. 

Terrible defensive outfielders everywhere hate you right now for comparing their skills to Robert's.

[Eris]

 

Falvey tries to exile two soldiers from the old regime. Surprisingly, Park and Wimmers not only clear waivers but each has an excellent spring. Falvey's hubris blinds him to their success and they are sent to the bush.

 

 

You're not giving the FO any credit for this.  I don't have any information and am only speculating.  Wimmers could have signed with any organization.  He chose to come back to Twins.  There is probably a gentlemen's agreement/understanding here some place, which I expect will be honored.  The baseball world is a small community and if FO don't keep their word, this information gets out there and signing such free agent players in the future becomes harder. I suspect also the both Gimenez and Breslow were promised spots/a good shot to make the team).  

 

Considering the "40 man roster crunch" they got Park through waivers.  Just about any other time in the off-season they would probably not have gotten Park through waivers, but did it right before Spring training when other teams rosters were set for spring training.  An accident or a clever calculated move?

Edited March 30, 2017 by Eris

[Mike Sixel]

 

Also, fun fact - looking at ESPNs analysis of rosters at the moment, Twins are second youngest:

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/rosters/_/sort/average_age/order/true

 

This obviously is more of a 40 man look with some non-roster guys, but does kind of contradict the complaint taht they didn't get any younger. This is a fuller roster of players that are likely to be used throughout the year. Once the 25 mans shake out they might drop a couple spots for opening day roster, but certainly not that many, and perhaps none at all.

 

I'm kind of interested in the 25 man roster, not the 40 man. 

 

Here is who they added:

Belisle 36

Breslow (not on the 40 man list....) 36

Gimenez (also not on their 40 man list)  34

Haley 25

Castro 29

 

So, until the data is updated, it's kind of hard to take it as useful right now. 

 

I guess people can keep saying this makes sense for a 103 loss team, but we'll just disagree. As for the age of the inherited players, well, I'm kind of interested in what this FO is doing...not as much the past.

[USAFChief]

 

They're playing in late afternoon/early evening. It won't be that warm in the evening, it will be in the 40s.

 

And again, you're ignoring what I said, so I'll paste it:

 

"Temps in the 40s and 50s aren't a big deal to us, but the team has been in Florida for the past few months."

 

I'll add a bit more: Some of these pitchers have never played in Minnesota in April.

Gametime is 3:10 PM.  Wouldn't that normally be about the time of the high temp for the day?  Mid afternoon?

[gunnarthor]

Mike, I think you're arguments lose a little bit of their merit when you're complaining about back up catchers and clearly stop gap bullpen arms.  Sure, Giminez isn't much.  Would we rather have Garver sitting on the bench or playing in AAA?
 

The Twins have some very exciting and young bullpen arms not yet on the 40 man roster (Jay, Burdi) and a few that are (Chargois).  None are ready April 1st.  The Twins are starting 6 former top 100 prospects that are 27 and younger in their lineup on opening day.  Yes, the new FO didn't bring those guys in but they didn't block them either.  That should be exciting.

 

They changed the rotation more than it looks like at first blush.  They removed 73 starts from last years starters and added a rookie to the rotation to go with 4 vets under team control.  I don't think the complaints about 'being older' are valid.  It's a young team so adding a stop gap vet isn't a big deal.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Mike, I think you're arguments lose a little bit of their merit when you're complaining about back up catchers and clearly stop gap bullpen arms.  Sure, Giminez isn't much.  Would we rather have Garver sitting on the bench or playing in AAA?
 

The Twins have some very exciting and young bullpen arms not yet on the 40 man roster (Jay, Burdi) and a few that are (Chargois).  None are ready April 1st.  The Twins are starting 6 former top 100 prospects that are 27 and younger in their lineup on opening day.  Yes, the new FO didn't bring those guys in but they didn't block them either.  That should be exciting.

 

They changed the rotation more than it looks like at first blush.  They removed 73 starts from last years starters and added a rookie to the rotation to go with 4 vets under team control.  I don't think the complaints about 'being older' are valid.  It's a young team so adding a stop gap vet isn't a big deal.

 

Well, they didn't take flyers on guys with upside, look at those ages.

 

Also, I don't agree, which is cool. I would have had Chargois on the roster. At some point, you have to take some risks. It is clearly a difference in philosophy. I would have traded Dozier and put Polanco in his stead, not sure who my backup INF is, that might have made the roster older, I don't know, but the starters would have been younger. I would have traded ESan, and replaced him with Berrios or Mejia as my plan. I would have tried a flyer on a younger RP than 36 years old.

 

At what point does not bringing up young RPs turn from "it's a stop gap" to "it's not the plan"? I am asking a question, because I think three years into not really doing it, it seems to be a plan that is continuing. I'm not even sure any young RP had a shot, other than Chargois. Did they give any young RP a chance?

[drjim]

 

Mike, I think you're arguments lose a little bit of their merit when you're complaining about back up catchers and clearly stop gap bullpen arms.  Sure, Giminez isn't much.  Would we rather have Garver sitting on the bench or playing in AAA?
 

The Twins have some very exciting and young bullpen arms not yet on the 40 man roster (Jay, Burdi) and a few that are (Chargois).  None are ready April 1st.  The Twins are starting 6 former top 100 prospects that are 27 and younger in their lineup on opening day.  Yes, the new FO didn't bring those guys in but they didn't block them either.  That should be exciting.

 

They changed the rotation more than it looks like at first blush.  They removed 73 starts from last years starters and added a rookie to the rotation to go with 4 vets under team control.  I don't think the complaints about 'being older' are valid.  It's a young team so adding a stop gap vet isn't a big deal.

 

And none of the guys brought in by the new front office have any sort of investment that would prevent them from being cast aside when younger/better options are ready to go.

[Danchat]

 

I'm kind of interested in the 25 man roster, not the 40 man. 

 

Here is who they added:

Belisle 36

Breslow (not on the 40 man list....) 36

Gimenez (also not on their 40 man list)  34

Haley 25

Castro 29

 

So, until the data is updated, it's kind of hard to take it as useful right now. 

 

I guess people can keep saying this makes sense for a 103 loss team, but we'll just disagree. As for the age of the inherited players, well, I'm kind of interested in what this FO is doing...not as much the past.

Breslow was added to the 40 man roster and May was placed on the 60 day DL. 

 

With Gimenez joining the team, I'll assume that Perkins will also hit the 60 day DL to open a spot for him. But that hasn't happened yet.

[howieramone2]

Personally, I'm happy I don't understand all the moves. Looks like the new regime is not going to just connect the dots. Like Brock said about moving Jay to the pen, the new management team is looking at things differently. For those who acknowledge learning the game of baseball is a lifetime pursuit, this is a great time to learn.

[Respy]

 

I'm really starting to hate OBP.

 

It's turning into the reason why I seemingly don't agree with any move a FO makes anymore. Mauer, the team's icon and "face of the franchise" has almost no value beyond it. So he gets every start at 1B and probably bats in the 3-hole all year. Meanwhile, exciting, toolsy guys like Rosario are ridiculed because they don't walk enough (even though his defense and extra-base power give him WAR at  or above the Mauer's of the world). And guys like Grossman make teams and figure prominently into Opening Day plans while a masher like Park is sent packing.

 

You know when OBP actually helps a team? When it's a good freakin' team! Billy Beane can look like a genius with crapshoot guys who walk a lot when he has Hudson, Mulder, and Zito making 60% of starts.

 

Thus the importance of the OPS stat.  It accounts for both the ability to get on base via walks and getting extra base hits.  According to Fangraphs, Grossman projects to have an OBP better than league average (~.340 to .322) but a worse OPS than league average (~.720 to .739).  Of course, Robbie had a very respectable OPS last year at .828.  You can be sure that the Twins analytics are aware of these and all the other stats.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Breslow was added to the 40 man roster and May was placed on the 60 day DL. 

 

With Gimenez joining the team, I'll assume that Perkins will also hit the 60 day DL to open a spot for him. But that hasn't happened yet.

 

not on the list on ESPN that calculates the age of the roster......

[gunnarthor]

 

 

 

At what point does not bringing up young RPs turn from "it's a stop gap" to "it's not the plan"? I am asking a question, because I think three years into not really doing it, it seems to be a plan that is continuing. I'm not even sure any young RP had a shot, other than Chargois. Did they give any young RP a chance?

I don't have an answer to this.  I thought we'd see a back end of the bullpen of Burdi, Perkins, Jepsen, May Chargois and Meyer by last August.  (I knew all wouldn't make it but I figured some would).  I was really excited about that.  Clearly that didn't happen.  But that's why I didn't want us to sign a Tony Sipp type.  I still don't.  And I agree that Chargois should have been on the opening day roster.  I hope he forces their hand.  But I'm not going to overly worry about the stop gaps while waiting for those younger arms to get here.  

[drjim]

 

Well, they didn't take flyers on guys with upside, look at those ages.

 

Also, I don't agree, which is cool. I would have had Chargois on the roster. At some point, you have to take some risks. It is clearly a difference in philosophy. I would have traded Dozier and put Polanco in his stead, not sure who my backup INF is, that might have made the roster older, I don't know, but the starters would have been younger. I would have traded ESan, and replaced him with Berrios or Mejia as my plan. I would have tried a flyer on a younger RP than 36 years old.

 

At what point does not bringing up young RPs turn from "it's a stop gap" to "it's not the plan"? I am asking a question, because I think three years into not really doing it, it seems to be a plan that is continuing. I'm not even sure any young RP had a shot, other than Chargois. Did they give any young RP a chance?

 

Polanco is starting!

 

You're upset that Escobar or Santana isn't starting instead of a traded Dozier? Or you think the scrapheap SS they would add to replace Dozier (and move Polanco to 2b) is that much of a difference?

 

And does it really make a big difference in the grand scheme of Twins future competitiveness if Santana is traded midseason instead of spring training?

 

I accept the frustration of no young relievers, but still strikes me as a player problem, not a front office problem. They aren't sending relievers down who actually performed.

[Respy]

Anyone heard a health update about Kennys Vargas?  If he was healthy, I'd be less surprised about Park going to Rochester.  

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

Somehow I am out of likes for the day. Now, I know that's not possible, since it is only 721 am here.....

Yeah, I didn't know that was possible... 

I have fewer likes than f***s to give. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Polanco is starting!

 

You're upset that Escobar or Santana isn't starting instead of a traded Dozier? Or you think the scrapheap SS they would add to replace Dozier (and move Polanco to 2b) is that much of a difference?

 

And does it really make a big difference in the grand scheme of Twins future competitiveness if Santana is traded midseason instead of spring training?

 

I accept the frustration of no young relievers, but still strikes me as a player problem, not a front office problem. They aren't sending relievers down who actually performed.

 

which RP got a chance this ST, other than Chargois? Signing the vets pretty much meant that the young guys didn't get a chance, imo. And, maybe NONE of them deserved a chance. That might be the problem here, not one of their AA or AAA RP arms even deserved a chance to make the roster. If so, maybe they should be out there signing guys younger than 36, because if the pipeline is so dry that none of them even deserve a shot, that's not good.

[USAFChief]

 

I don't have an answer to this.  I thought we'd see a back end of the bullpen of Burdi, Perkins, Jepsen, May Chargois and Meyer by last August.  (I knew all wouldn't make it but I figured some would).  I was really excited about that.  Clearly that didn't happen.  But that's why I didn't want us to sign a Tony Sipp type.  I still don't.  And I agree that Chargois should have been on the opening day roster.  I hope he forces their hand.  But I'm not going to overly worry about the stop gaps while waiting for those younger arms to get here.  

You didn't, and don't want a Tony Sipp because he would block guys who aren't here?  And in his place Breslow and Haley and Belisle?

 

 

[prouster]

I don't understand the outrage. Is anyone surprised by this roster? Were they supposed to trade for Trout and Kershaw? I don't get it.

 

The only real surprise to me is Park's reassignment, but as has been pointed out a few times, his 40-man status (or non-status, I guess) would mean exposing someone else to the waiver wire. I personally dislike that Santana is still around, so there's a spot that could have gone to Park. But I'm not that upset about it, because they could make that change tomorrow if they wanted to. Park is a 30 year old DH whose ST stats could be a mirage, kind of like Hicks a few years back. Nor am I upset about a backup catcher. Yes, you want value from all 25 roster spots, but there is no one who represents a viable upgrade from Gimenez. JRM maaayyybe has some upside, but I don't see how that could be met sitting on the bench. Not to mention that whatever upside he has is severely diminished from his 2016 season. People seem to have forgotten that he was really, really bad last year at both the MLB and AAA levels. Garver simply needs more time in the upper minors.

 

I also don't understand the anger about the bullpen. It makes sense to carry the extra arm when there are so many question marks in the rotation. This is also a part of the team that is more or less reassembled every year. So, if a guy like Chargois isn't there now, he could be next week, or next month, or next year. It depends on when he's ready. He was pretty bad last year and this spring. For all we know, he's Jim Hoey.

 

Personally, I'm just excited that it's baseball season again. When the Twins have a chance at the pennant, I'll start getting upset about their roster decisions.

[gunnarthor]

 

You didn't, and don't want a Tony Sipp because he would block guys who aren't here?  And in his place Breslow and Haley and Belisle?

I didn't want to sign a guy like Sipp on a 3/18m deal (he sucked last year, by the way).  Stop gaps are fine for a bullpen.  I don't think you want to spend a lot on relief arms when they are so risky.