Article: The Twins Bullpen Is Set (And You’re Not Going To Love It)

[DaveW]

No doubt, he had issues. But would you rather trot him out there again and see what happens? Or cut him to add a warm body like Wimmers? That's the choice we face today.

I'd rather not have the choice be between Wimmers or Tonkin.

 

Which indicates to me a massive failure by the FO

[nicksaviking]

 

He has been given one full season, during which he was working in an unfamiliar role but still piled up the most strikeout of any Twins reliever since prime Joe Nathan.

 

People lament the Twins not giving young guys chances, lament the lack of velocity and strikeouts, then are so quick to give up on a dude after a bit of turbulence. His ERA was around 3 in mid-June before an unprecedented workload began to catch up with him.

 

And again, who is he holding back? Chargois can be called up at any time. They didn't lose anyone to keep him, whereas they would have lost him to keep someone else. 

 

I'll also be in the minority and not be upset about one more chance for Tonkin.

 

But Molitor HAS to go along with new ideas. The role a guy plays simply cannot be based on his experience but instead on his skill set. Just because a guy is a veteran doesn't mean he has the ability to work high leverage situations. If you can't miss bats you shouldn't be called into the game with a runner on 3rd and one out. Tonkin had issues last year, still, if you absolutely needed a strikeout he was pretty much the only one in the pen who had that ability. Sometimes that means he has to pitch in a tight spot, it's just how the game works.

[Brandon Warne]

I might take a run at Jared Hughes, who was just released by Pittsburgh. Throws hard, has a good slider and keeps the ball on ground/in the park. 

 

He's a lot like Kintzler, but for cheap that's not a bad deal. 

[Vanimal46]

 

Sometimes that means he has to pitch in a tight spot, it's just how the game works.

 

When he does pitch in a tight spot, that will be uncharted territory for him... 

34 of his 65 appearances last year he was brought in when the team was down or up by 3 or more runs. In merely 10 appearances did he come in when the game was tied. 

[USAFChief]

I also don't have a problem with Tonkin getting another opportunity over the available options.

 

At risk of repeating myself...it's the available options that is the problem.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I also don't have a problem with Tonkin getting another opportunity over the available options.

At risk of repeating myself...it's the available options that is the problem.

 

Next year, Chief, next year.

[Platoon]

I am not ready to throw the new FO under the bus just yet. That said the bus is coming down the street and it will probably get here around the middle of June. Hopefully those two aren't standing too close to the curb at the time! .

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess I'm a Tonkin bobo.

K and bb rates stabilize much quicker than HR rates, which can be fluky in small sample sizes.

People say that nobody in MLB is fooled by his straight fastball, but if that is the case, how has he kept his k rate up in the majors?

I expect a pretty good season from Tonkin.

[tobi0040]

Here is the struggle for me. It is year 7 of the rebuild and Chargois does not make the team because we can't trust him based on limited MLB experience and a few poor spring training outings.

 

Meanwhile Danny Santana will likely make the team. All three outfielders can play CF. Escobar can too. And at minimum, Polanco and Escobar can play SS. Santana is not going to hit for anyone and he will maybe run for 2-3 players.

 

What is the better use of that 25th spot? Would you rather have an extra reliever to break in Chargois or have Santana sit there and play twice a week so he "stays fresh"?

 

It would be a tough sell to convince me we should worry about the backup to the backup SS. What say you?

[jimbo92107]

 

Not a fan of keeping Tonkin, IMO he's always going to be more potential than results.  Don't know why we had to get Breslow either. O'Rourke can get lefties out.

Craig Breslow has always been better than O'Rourke. As long as Breslow can bring it above 90 mph, his stuff will play well at the mlb level. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

There were several bounce back candidates waiting and available in FA. They just decided to go with the same route as usual.... Mediocre placeholders hoping that the 3rd year is the charm waiting for these awesome RP prospects in the minors. 

C'mon man didn't you drink the Kool-Aid yet? The bullpen saviors are coming.....

[DaveW]

Yeah Danny Santana on the 25 man roster is absolute madness.

[Vanimal46]

One thing about D Santana then I'm done talking about him. I doubt we would be talking about him making the 25 man roster if Adrianza didn't get hurt. My hope is that the glitch will be fixed soon. Maybe after 10 days when Adrianza comes off the DL.

[Vanimal46]

C'mon man didn't you drink the Kool-Aid yet? The bullpen saviors are coming.....

Good thing I haven't been holding my breath waiting.... I would have been dead 2 years ago!

[Thrylos]

Until the 5th starter is announced, I am still hopeful for Duffey over Tonkin in the pen.

 

At least no Buddy.  That's progress.

[drjim]

 

Here is the struggle for me. It is year 7 of the rebuild and Chargois does not make the team because we can't trust him based on limited MLB experience and a few poor spring training outings.

Meanwhile Danny Santana will likely make the team. All three outfielders can play CF. Escobar can too. And at minimum, Polanco and Escobar can play SS. Santana is not going to hit for anyone and he will maybe run for 2-3 players.

What is the better use of that 25th spot? Would you rather have an extra reliever to break in Chargois or have Santana sit there and play twice a week so he "stays fresh"?

It would be a tough sell to convince me we should worry about the backup to the backup SS. What say you?

 

Wait a couple of weeks.

[Bark's Lounge]

I expected this outcome to a degree with the hope that Chargois would have a good spring and make the club - that didn't happen and it is a bummer.

 

The rotation is a bummer as well - not because I don't think they can hold there own if everything breaks right, but it is such an unknown. Santana should be good/okay, but everyone else could have a 5+ ERA, but on the other hand they also could have a 4.00ERA. That is probably wishful thinking.

 

The decision that Berrios made for himself did not go his way (WBC), and I don't fault him for it, the Mejia/Duffey battle for the 5th spot is intriguing, but only for the reason of being in a position where we don't have a bright shining prospect in the mix for that spot. Mejia and Duffey could have really good careers. To assume such would be fool hardy.

 

I have mentioned the 1996 Twins team on this site a few times over the years. They had about as bad a pitching staff as you can imagine, but they had a high powered offense and it made a lot of games fun to watch. They didn't have much power in an era which was dominated by that, but they hammered the ball, took some BBs and it worked out (for the offense). This team won 78 games.

 

Really, that is the only expectation I have for this season (fingers crossed).

[Twinfan & Dad]

So we are going to turn the worse team in baseball around in 1 year? "Come on man" as Espn says, this is going to take time. Let's see what this team looks like at the end of the year. Just my opinion but the bullpen is the easiest fix. How about do our young want to be studs really turn into studs? In our case if the offense comes along we will be just fine! Give me a slightly above 500 year with progress with our young hitters so we know what we have, I'm fine. The young pitchers we have will be ready to contribute by next year.

[KirbyHawk75]

I am too lazy to read through the whole 6 pages.  Do you think Jay will be up soon since he is in the bullpen now?

[adorduan]

 

Craig Breslow has always been better than O'Rourke. As long as Breslow can bring it above 90 mph, his stuff will play well at the mlb level. 

Huh?  Breslow the last 3 years, ERA of 5.96,4.15 and 4.50.  WHIP 1.86,1.42 and 1.79.  K/9 of 6.1,6.3 and 4.5. OPS against of .887,825 and 869. Admittedly a small sample size for O'Rourke but his first 2 years, ERA 6.14 and 3.96 WHIP 1.41 and 1.12, K/9 of 9.8 and 8.6, OPS against .660 and .615. One is 28 and trending in the right direction and the other is 36 and is trending in the wrong direction. I'll take O'Rourke any day of the week.

[spinowner]

 

I'd rather not have the choice be between Wimmers or Tonkin.

Which indicates to me a massive failure by the FO

Massive failure? These guys have been on the job less than five months. They have spent a lot of that time just getting organized, and I'm sure that process has a ways to go yet. They have had to familiarize themselves with the entire organization, players, scouts, coaches, etc. etc. Yes, who is on the major league roster is important, but to have a new administration stumble into a world championship happens once in a lifetime, and we already had our once in a lifetime in 1987.

[jimbo92107]

 

Huh?  Breslow the last 3 years, ERA of 5.96,4.15 and 4.50.  WHIP 1.86,1.42 and 1.79.  K/9 of 6.1,6.3 and 4.5. OPS against of .887,825 and 869. Admittedly a small sample size for O'Rourke but his first 2 years, ERA 6.14 and 3.96 WHIP 1.41 and 1.12, K/9 of 9.8 and 8.6, OPS against .660 and .615. One is 28 and trending in the right direction and the other is 36 and is trending in the wrong direction. I'll take O'Rourke any day of the week.

Yes, I agree that Breslow's game has gone downhill for the last few years. However, supposedly he has tinkered with his mechanics and found a better technique. If so, Breslow is an effective reliever. Meanwhile, O'Rourke has looked very inconsistent in limited use on the Twins. 

 

That said, I'll grant your general point that you'd rather have a younger guy with a live arm than a vet trying to hold onto a couple more years of pro play. This may feed into what appears to be the plan, which is to start the season with vets, then transition to the abundant young arms in AA and AAA. 

[spinowner]

 

Yes, I agree that Breslow's game has gone downhill for the last few years. However, supposedly he has tinkered with his mechanics and found a better technique. If so, Breslow is an effective reliever. Meanwhile, O'Rourke has looked very inconsistent in limited use on the Twins. 

 

That said, I'll grant your general point that you'd rather have a younger guy with a live arm than a vet trying to hold onto a couple more years of pro play. This may feed into what appears to be the plan, which is to start the season with vets, then transition to the abundant young arms in AA and AAA. 

I hope Breslow has a good first 2 months. He'd be a great flip candidate.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I'm holding out hope that the reason they signed Breslow was largely to see what his 'analytic' approach produces for him. If positive they may work it into the development of some of the other pitchers.

 

I doubt this is the first time Falvey or Levine have been intrigued by pitching mechanics.

[h2oface]

The only thing I like less than the pen...... is the rotation. Relief will not really be in the Twins fan's vocabulary. Santiago is to be the number two starter. And Hughes and his historically horrid opening month will be attempting his comeback. Lots of relief will be needed, but I don't see it coming.

 

A magic pen now wins championships. I do not subscribe do the claim that a pen is easy to throw together. Nor keep.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't get the anger about Tonkin. I realize he hasn't performed, but he's shown flashes of the ability to do so while notching a pretty impressive K and BB rate.  I'd be upset about losing him.  Patience is a virtue, and the Twins aren't the only organization forced to be patient with players. Tonkin's first real shot was last year.  Think about that.  He got cups of coffee previously, but never really got a chance.  Give him some time. He might fail, but I don't think cutting bait this early would be wise. It's not like Chargois earned it.  He didn't. 

[GCTF]

 

I am too lazy to read through the whole 6 pages.  Do you think Jay will be up soon since he is in the bullpen now?

No, check back in three years.

[jimbo92107]

 

I hope Breslow has a good first 2 months. He'd be a great flip candidate.

Another thing about Breslow is his high intelligence. I'm pretty sure he could seamlessly transition from pitcher to pitching coach at the pro level. A guy like that should be considered for a position in the Twins organization when he finally hangs 'em up. 

[Kwak]

I believe that the roster will be pretty much what Molitor wants but has to include the FO's acquisitions.  This allows the FO to "sharpen the axe" for predictable failure so it will be PC for them to "kick Molitor upstairs" and hire their selection as field manager.

 

Hoping that veteran RPs from this staff can be "flipped for prospects" is like tossing a coin in the fountain and making a wish.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm far less concerned that Tonkin is on the roster as I am that Kintzler is our closer.